FF 45th at Barber: Who is going?

[Raceworks]

The SARRC event at Daytona on the same weekend is siphoning entrants away. There's 8 FF's so far registered there, including mine.

[CF56]

I think the idea of the 45th event is great. Unfortunately the date has a lot of conflicts the weekend before through the weekend after. Plus it's hard to justify the time and expense of a long tow for just a two day weekend.

[Ian Lenhart]

I would like to know why the FF1600 pro series is not running at this event. I'm sure it would help secure the Friday test day.

[Franklin Futrelle]

I just got registered and was surprised at the low car count. i am getting on the horn and trying to round up entries. the spec racer ford 50th anniv race had 150 entries....lets try and get some people registered

Franklin Futrelle

[swiftdrivr]

I had a blast at the 40th, and it ended way too fast to get everything done and seen that I wanted to, So I am really disappointed this has turned out so poorly. I think it will hurt future efforts, but only because it was not well thought out in advance. Very high entry fees, no test day, and lots of competition /other options to race the same weekend determine it's fate much more than the interest of the FF community, or the overall idea of an open-wheel-only weekend, IMO. For the organizers, I hope it flies even though I won't be there. For the FF and open wheel community, I hope it doesn't poison the waters for a better planned event in the future.

[tstrong]

Would be intrested in seeing one of those 50 year old spec racer fords?

[FV90]

????????????????????
SRF's are not racing with us.

[GT1Vette]

I had a blast at the 40th, and it ended way too fast to get everything done and seen that I wanted to, So I am really disappointed this has turned out so poorly. I think it will hurt future efforts, but only because it was not well thought out in advance. Very high entry fees, no test day, and lots of competition /other options to race the same weekend determine it's fate much more than the interest of the FF community, or the overall idea of an open-wheel-only weekend, IMO. For the organizers, I hope it flies even though I won't be there. For the FF and open wheel community, I hope it doesn't poison the waters for a better planned event in the future.

This is a once-every-five years event with national promotion/recognition (through Racer magazine as well as SportsCar) at a world-class facility (Barber hosts IndyCar and other Pro weekends). Besides Live Timing and Live Audio it will also have Live video from four stationary cameras placed around the track (like the Mid-Ohio and WGI Majors events).

As long as you understand that racers are split on the attractiveness of three-day vs. two-day events I'm open to suggestions on how it could have been better planned, but even with the less-than-anticipated participation to date we are not going to give up on the concept. The lessons we've learned from 2014 should certainly help improve what will be offered going forward, including the 50th in 2019.

[jim murphy]

Some ideas for future consideration are as follows (some are mine):

1. Friday test day
2. Invite the FF1600 pro drivers (with a pro points date?)
3. No nearby race schedule conflict (Daytona*, for one in this situation)
4. Cooler time of the year, say after the Runoffs
5. More central track location
6. Major sponsor to help with entry fees along with many contingency sponsors.
7. Continuing strong promotion way in advance

* - Daytona in August can be hotter than B'ham and there are the afternoon micro-boomers with possible tornadoes (like in 1984).

HTH,
Jim

[FV90]

Jim for your item 1. Barber Track Rental is 12.5K this does not include workers/equipment and such.
AGAIN those who support test days need to show up because you can put a huge strain on a region trying to keep it's head above water to put these events on.
Of course there is nothing stopping you from renting the track is there?

[GT1Vette]

Just so you know, it was confirmed today that Josef Newgarden will be attending this event (and sharing the ride with Franklin). Not only is Josef a current IndyCar driver but he's also (at least according to Paul Pfanner) the only American to win the British Formula Ford Festival.

Obviously we would have like to announced this much sooner, but crossing of I's and dotting of T's apparently takes longer the higher you go on the pyramid...

[andyllc]

Just so you know, it was confirmed today that Josef Newgarden will be attending this event (and sharing the ride with Franklin). Not only is Josef a current IndyCar driver but he's also (at least according to Paul Pfanner) the only American to win the British Formula Ford Festival.

Obviously we would have like to announced this much sooner, but crossing of I's and dotting of T's apparently takes longer the higher you go on the pyramid...

Butch
I think Josef is a great kid and a talented driver. It is a bummer this wasn't announced earlier as it certainly got my attention. I think what some people mean by promotion isn't really promotion to the public but earlier promotion to the competitors. I think a lot of people planned for the 40th for a year or more and I don't believe (could easily be wrong) this event was announced until a lot of people had their schedules figured out for the year.

[jim murphy]

Jim for your item 1. Barber Track Rental is 12.5K this does not include workers/equipment and such.
AGAIN those who support test days need to show up because you can put a huge strain on a region trying to keep it's head above water to put these events on.
Of course there is nothing stopping you from renting the track is there?

It could be offered as an option IF enough drivers sign up for the test day then it will be on. Not enough and you are off the hook - unless the ones who do sign up are willing to split the costs among themselves.

HTH,
Jim

[GT1Vette]

Butch
I think Josef is a great kid and a talented driver. It is a bummer this wasn't announced earlier as it certainly got my attention. I think what some people mean by promotion isn't really promotion to the public but earlier promotion to the competitors. I think a lot of people planned for the 40th for a year or more and I don't believe (could easily be wrong) this event was announced until a lot of people had their schedules figured out for the year.

We started serious talking about this at the PRI show last December and it was confirmed late January, 2015. This particular thread was begun on Feb 8, 2014. Granted there have been some hiccups regarding the support classes, but the basic concept featuring FF for the weekend has not changed since the beginning.

As I said, we haven't given up on the concept that festivals are a viable option for our racing regions, so we'll learn from this and move forward.

For those that want more advance notice, we're also already talking about the 50th. Best guess right now is it will be at a world-famous southeastern track and will be held in the spring of 2019.

[GT1Vette]

It could be offered as an option IF enough drivers sign up for the test day then it will be on. Not enough and you are off the hook - unless the ones who do sign up are willing to split the costs among themselves.

HTH,
Jim

And what do you tell the track that passed on another renter because you wanted to wait to tell them you have enough interest to do the test day? How much credibility do you have the next time you're talking to the track about a race weekend?

And what does "HTH" mean?

[jim murphy]

And what do you tell the track that passed on another renter because you wanted to wait to tell them you have enough interest to do the test day? How much credibility do you have the next time you're talking to the track about a race weekend?

And what does "HTH" mean?

This would obviously be done as far in advance as possible. The 2nd choice is to ask the ones who do sign up to see if they want to split the costs IF enough do not sign up. Give the track management this possibility to see if they are amenable to it as they may come back after a time and say - "Do you have enough to commit and if you don't then I am renting it to someone else". This gives the region a shot at it. BTW, is the Friday before this Speedfest rented to anyone?

HTH = Hope This Helps

Jim

[GT1Vette]

It's a moot point because Porsche has the track on Friday and is/was not interested in sharing the day. That's also the reason we can't even get into the track and start setting up before 5:00 on Friday afternoon. Again, lesson learned for going forward.

Excellent theory to get commitment up front but (as Mark says) figure $20,000 to rent Barber on a Friday ($12.5 for the track, then workers, safety crews, and insurance at a minimum). With 40 drivers that $500 each for the test day.

HTH

[GT1Vette]

For those that may not have seen it, here's the official press release:

http://www.scca.com/news/index.cfm?cid=51956

[mblanc]

I'm open to suggestions on how it could have been better planned,

THe FF40th ANNOUNCED just more than TWO YEARS in advance.
http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23440
In comparison:
The first 45th SCCA.com anouncement was February 7th of this year.
http://www.scca.com/events/news.cfm?eid=7113&cid=51776


The 40th: the number of DIFFERENT races (and lots of either details) were announced 20 months ahead of time , including a day by day planned Schedule.
http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23440
http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31058
In Comparison:
The 45th Schedule was impossible to find until registration opened- 6 weeks ahead of race.

The FF40th was VERY CLEAR, VERY EARLY, that not only VFF, CFF and FF were eligible (like the 45th) but that they were SEPARATE RACES ! and you could cross enter.

I considered the 45th event, to bring both a FF and CFF, but I never understood for sure that there were separate races that wouldn't be back to back early enough to make the big effort to field two cars at such an event. Most information mentioned was those 'classes' being eligible at the event, not separate races.
In Comparison:
FF40th, Guys were making Group transportation plans of bringing lots of cars, 8 months ahead of time.
http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30888


The "Steering Committee" announcement was May 23rd, 2014. (11weeks ahead)
http://www.scca.com/events/news.cfm?eid=7113&cid=51888
Meaning this in the spirit of helping, not complaining, but that group seemed to be formed, announced and started working a year, if not two, too late.

Hats off for the Newgarden anouncement, very cool. But shouldn't that and similar things have been anounced and printed in Road&Track and Racer Magazines months ago, along with other hype in the media this whole year?

And a thought on 'length of event' for a special event, I tested at Road America on Wednesday for the FF40th. The Official test day was Thursday, and then a 3 day race schedule. As mentioned above, the time went too quick as it was.............

[RussMcB]

Sure wish I still had my FF. Sounds like an awesome event.

I'd go if I could find an inexpensive rental (I know, unlikely).

[BURKY]

Some ideas for future consideration are as follows (some are mine):

1. Friday test day
2. Invite the FF1600 pro drivers (with a pro points date?)
3. No nearby race schedule conflict (Daytona*, for one in this situation)
4. Cooler time of the year, say after the Runoffs
5. More central track location
6. Major sponsor to help with entry fees along with many contingency sponsors.
7. Continuing strong promotion way in advance

* - Daytona in August can be hotter than B'ham and there are the afternoon micro-boomers with possible tornadoes (like in 1984).

HTH,
Jim

Daytona has nothing to do with lack of entries. Most of the driver's going live south or within 2 hours from the track. Not to mention they are regulars for that weekend.

[GT1Vette]

Meaning this in the spirit of helping, not complaining, but that group seemed to be formed, announced and started working a year, if not two, too late.

Marc,

Understood on all points, and taken in the same light. We'll do better when planning the 50th.

And thanks for knowing the difference between "to", "too", and "two"...

[farrout]

A Friday test day at Barber is not something you can schedule and then back out of. Barber wants their non-refundable deposit and full track rental NLT 6 weeks before the event. The usual entry routine these days is that between 2 and 1 weeks before the event is when the majority of the drivers actually enter. As Butch said, the Friday test Day is a huge financial commitment that is either borne directly by those drivers who do the Friday or all of the drivers when the cost is amortized across the weekend. Barber does not run a test day themselves like other tracks do.

As for any event or track, the drivers vote by their presence whether or not they want the event to continue at that track. Regions are philanthropic, the events must pay for themselves.

[swiftdrivr]

I agree with Jim's points, and also agree the Newgarden announcement would have been much more helpful if announced much earlier. I also see the difficulty of getting a test day at Barber, but I think that would have led me to try another venue. I've only been there once, and needed the test day. My friend, who is a hard boiled RACER, doesn't want to come and "attend". He wants to come and CONTEND. So, with no test day to learn the track, he wasn't interested. No offence intended to Butch and the many others who I am sure put a lot of work into this event, and I am glad the low turnout isn't killing the basic idea, which I really like. I really enjoyed the old "Peach State Playground" open wheel only events. [Massed Miatas are good for some, but not my thing.]
BTW: How do we get the live video? Speedcast?

Butch: Sent you a PM

[farrout]

We are doing a Dbl SECS/SARRC/TT on Labor Day weekend at Barber. No Friday Test Day but I have arranged the schedule for the TT sessions to provide the practice time.

Each TT group will have 2 15 min sessions for each group on Saturday before Race Qual then one more TT 20 min session between Qual and the Race. There is a one day TT option which is cheaper than a test day would cost.

This construct worked well last year. All the drivers liked the format and the ability to get practice time in without having to spend the extra day on the road.

[Frank C]

The Museum with its Loti and bikes was extra motivation for me to enter.
- Frank Chambers

[Raceworks]

The Museum with its Loti and bikes was extra motivation for me to enter.
- Frank Chambers

That museum needs to be on every gearhead's bucket list.

[GT1Vette]

BTW: How do we get the live video? Speedcast?

The Live Video is very labor intensive and unfortunately hit the (budget) cutting room floor this past Friday. Links to Live Timing and Live Audio will be available here:

http://www.scca.com/events/index.cfm?eid=7113

[CF56]

Thanks Butch for all your work with this event.

[Garey Guzman]

I was hoping to make this event but haven't got the car back together. Since it's been a while, I probably could use a test day...

That said, I'd be interested in a reasonable rental!

Garey Guzman
(back after 5 years!!)

[sauce_racer]

So with there only being 35 cars entered, what if this race is cancelled?


Is that even a possibility?


Meg Sauce
SowDiv FF10

[farrout]

Race will go on despite the low entries

[GT1Vette]

Meg (and anyone else that's concerned),

I just talked to your dad to assure him the event WILL happen despite the current entry count. Besides the (predictable but frustrating) last-minute entries we've also got 10-15 SpecRace:Atom cars (Group 1) that are not listed. Even with 50 entries it will cost more to cancel the event than hold it.

If we don't get more CFF/VFF entries (Group 4) then we'll most likely go to a four group schedule with slightly longer practice/qualifying sessions (plus give FV and F500 separate practice sessions).

Again, the event WILL happen...

[John Robinson II]

I wont be able to make this event but can offer some assistance to those that will.
1) I have a room reserved at the Hampton - closest place to the track. anyone wants it let me know as I am going to cancel the reservation Monday evening.
2) gearing - this is what I ran to set the track record several years ago.
17-34
20-32
22-30
24-28
10-31 r&p with Hoosier tires.
mph range 45 - 115.

John

[Garey Guzman]

I wont be able to make this event ....

Too bad you're missing this one. I have optimistically entered!

[Frank C]

Looks pretty tall, John. Kent or Honda? Edit: Oh, small rears!
Frank Chambers

[Garey Guzman]

Since I've been out of racing for several years, I'd really appreciate it if someone had some take-off tires! I don't think the Goodyears from the 40th Anniversary event will be of much use....

Thanks! Can't wait for this weekend!

[John Robinson II]

Looks pretty tall, John. Kent or Honda? Edit: Oh, small rears!
Frank Chambers

Frank, That is with the normal size tires with a Kent. after looing back at my notes, yes, I was going to add a few teeth, not enough revs in top gear. notes are from 2009, not sure if track has been changed since then as well.

john

[farrout]

Barber is pretty much the same now as in 2009. Pavement is a bit older

[Garey Guzman]

Yeah, 4th sounded too tall. But I dropped all the gears because I think my rustiness will slow me down!