Not going to get into the arguement about the why - late model Van diemen question:
Without cutting a hole for the wiring harness and mounting outside the bodywork has anyone found an option for the late model Van Diemen?
Thanks
JM
Late model Van Diemen option?
Not going to get into the arguement about the why - late model Van diemen question:
Without cutting a hole for the wiring harness and mounting outside the bodywork has anyone found an option for the late model Van Diemen?
Thanks
JM
RaceDog
Messenger Racing
Muleshoe, Texas USA
One of the points I have in saying FT is not ready for prime time. To big and clunky for many formula cars
Post #89 has a picture of Bob Wright’s installation in his Élan. Probably how I will do mine when I get around to it.Originally Posted by Messenger Racing
Van Diemen RF99 FC
That location is approximately the one I started with in my formula V. It was 100% totally blocked by my arm and hands Approximately 80% of the time. Needless to say not worth having. After several alternate locations I finally ended up spending about 9 hours shuffling things around a quarter inch at a time to get it near Center top in my dash. It's still not visible in some hands on steering wheel configurations obviously, but it's the best that can possibly be done in most formula cars I think. I did see a couple of FE2 installations that looked extremely serviceable though. IIRC, they seem to have been built with the perfect space for FT - center & top..just behind the windbreaker.
Steve, FV80
Steve, FV80
Racing since '73 - FV since '77
VD mount
Photo 89 shows an mount location that is behind my hands and not visible unless I take my hand off the wheel.
JM
RaceDog
Messenger Racing
Muleshoe, Texas USA
Jay, that location works very well for me; completely visible, not in the way at all.
For all you nay-sayers out there, this system is functional and a great assist to the stewards operating the racetrack. Once all cars on track have one the ability to control the track will be greatly enhanced, crash clean-up will be much quicker yielding better racing and more green flag laps.
----------
In memory of Joe Stimola and Glenn Phillips
Late model VD
Yes- I think with the lack of volunteer corner workers the track lighting systems (we run one at High Plains that works very well) and "in-car" systems are becoming critical - just working out the practical application for my cars.
I am a long armed driver with the steering wheel in it's highest mounting position with my hands towards the very top of the wheel. At this point we are considering mounting on top of the g dash or near the antenna in the photo - but hoping an alternate wiring unit becomes available before we purchase and/or re-wire the current unit.
JM
RaceDog
Messenger Racing
Muleshoe, Texas USA
That looks to me like an AIM dash prime for integration in situ?
If you have one
I mean, the dash currently installed in that pic looks like an AIM dash, which could be prime for integration. If it accepts CAN inputs, not all do.If you have one
I have realllly tried to be positive about all this, and do like the concept... but SCCA is out of their minds now.
They mandate a system, tell us it is affordable, then the piece that fits our cars is more than double the existing unit.
"Designed for vehicles with limited dash or cockpit space, this FT-RD unit will retail for $549.99. The standard Flagtronics FT200 remains available for $249.99."
https://www.scca.com/announcements/7...ug8ngInXwZ4wRg
~Matt Clark| RTJ-02 FV #92 | My YouTube Onboard Videos (helmet cam)
Smaller is bigger
Just saw the content notification - I had heard the price was coming - was hoping it wasn't true. - I actually think the system will benefit us and the loss of available corner workers have forced SCCA's hand IMO..... but that plus the light is tough on a lot of racers....
RaceDog
Messenger Racing
Muleshoe, Texas USA
Dean Fehribach
Car owner: SCCA Enterprises FE2 #037.
Co-owner: SCCA C-Spec Mazda 3
Car owner: 2017 Ford Mustang EcoBoost Autocross STU
Can you buy just the control module without the display? If you plan to integrate with your existing dash via CAN bus then is there any point in having a separate display? And if it is possible to buy separate, is that control module alone smaller/cheaper than just getting the regular unit and stowing it somewhere not visible to the driver?
For those NOT going to the runoffs:
Who can publish a list of tracks and events that are using Flagtronics - or when they will have it installed.
Is this going to be Majors only? What tracks will be using this for regionals?
Can Flagtronics do that?
Someone should. Not sure I want to buy until it's going to be used at events I'm going to...
Good question. I think the answer is NO. There are buttons on the display you need to press.
They send an "Are you ok?" message if you crash with a YES/NO button response....
I don't think that is getting integrated into the CAN interface.
I am right along with everyone that does not like being TOLD what I should spend my money on. But, when I go for a race weekend, I ELECT to pay double this figure in slicks and gas. To give myself a dose of realism, I am saying that for half the cost of a weekends consumables, I can have a piece of safety equipment that will work for years !!
I have many other factors in my life that are more worthy of getting 'worked up' over than this.
My letters to the CRB regarding the mandated use have stated it should not be mandated until the season following an open wheel version being available. Given the current pricing and timing of the availability, I stand by my belief. Let racers digest the cost over the winter and not mid-season. Mandate it in 2025, not 2024. I encourage all to write letters requesting the same.
Agreed, you'd still need the basic single unit, it would still need to be installed in a location that allows the antennae to work. I think if you can't reach the buttons, it's not the worst consideration... but given the need for antenna access, you'd probably have a chance to reach the buttons after an impact if you're in the shape to do so.
After another very good weekend (Sprints) using this system and getting the benefit of it's information, I am glad it's become available and I do think it's a very valuable and cost-effective addition to Club Racing.
But that doesn't mean that, yet again, the National Office has flubbed the roll-out...
More crap added to the pile of useless nonsense. Double the price for a smaller unit What the heck is going on...
No one has shown any evidence that this actually works well at the present time.
Too many unanswered questions.
And it should in no way shape or form be mandated.
I think FT did a snow sales job on the BOD or CRB!!!!!
This might be the straw that breaks the back of many racers!!!!
The powers that be had better think this one over very very carefully if they think that it will actually allow the number of workers to be reduced with the drivers remaining confident in the information that they are receiving, while looking down in the cockpit instead at the track, where they should be looking.
It takes a lot to come up with anything more stupid
IMO, reading some posts regarding actual session usage, it does seem to me to be a VERY useful tool, and used properly, will enhance safety and reduce delays during sessions.
So I will be quite willing to buy and install the 2-piece version.
Dave Weitzenhof
Yep - this is the correct perspective.
Yeah - I'm quite surprised with the price doubling. Thought $400-$450 would be the range.
But we demanded new packaging. And they DID listen......so they're gladly sticking it to us.
There are reports by many racers that it does work.
The more it's used the more the race director and drivers can work out any bugs.
But there is no point in owning one if there are no events requiring them or tracks supporting them.
I don't think it's been randomly mandated. The lack of volunteer corner workers mandates we must do something and that's on us members more than the BOD. Do we really want to show up for a weekend and cancel because of no corner workers?
Or should the club 'mandate' everyone provide a representative worker? like they do at local autocrosses?
If the club is going to mandate a single source item, they should negotiate a price, the same, for everyone. Lets not be stupid and repeat the transponder BS again.
As racers - on a budget - surely we can figure out a way for the cheaper unit to fit our application if cost is a real consideration.
Every 'mandate' of new kit has brought a hew and cry from members that 'don't want to be told what to do'. We don't need crash helmets, our heads are hard enough! Seat Belts - I want to be thrown clear of the vehicle in a accident. Roll Bars - too much weight. The list goes on and on and on,
I know everyone is saying it won't fit their cars... but in my car, it absolutely will not fit. My FV is one of the smallest you will find, even Lazer drivers have looked in it & shook their head. Heck, my upper bars even bend inward to the dash hoop to the point I can rake my knuckles on them if I am not careful. It ain't gonna fit.
This new display has a chance to wedge in, albeit in a sketchy area outside the chassis hoop. But I am probably going to use my AIM dash to interface.... something I know not everyone has the luxury of doing.
As I said elsewhere in the thread, this extra expense may not be a huge issue to guys with $35k+ cars, but for the regional FV world, the extra expenses like this, FIA rain lights, cameras, transponders, etc. can add up to a cost that our guys just cannot do. I talk to a -lot- of people trying to get by in FV, and I know some literally have cut race weekends because of those extra expenses. We have guys with families who just want to finally live the dream of racing, younger racers who are scraping everything they can to be at the track, and some people who simply do not have huge incomes.
I know the argument of "if they are that tight, then they shouldnt be racing" has been thrown out in a couple places... but to me, these people are who SCCA should be trying to help keep on track.
$250 was managable.
$350 is an eyeroll, but ok.
$550 is disgusting.
Didn't SCCA as a Club have to subsidize SCCA Pro?
Perhaps it is time we get a little help back.
And as a Club, it sure seems we don't get a say on what is forced on us.
~Matt Clark
That is why GOD created Sawzalls, Porta-powers, new tubing and welders.
Had to reconfigure some of the bars in my cars as I outgrew it in some spots.
Racing has never been the poor man's undertaking - and SCCA isn't making it any easier, but if we want to play we will have to pay.
well, I am in the process of 3d scanning my car & making a new one finally... but I am not cutting & reconfiguring my chassis for a light.
that turns the SCCA requirement into a several thousand dollar project.
again, I do not understand why it is on us, as CLUB members, to blindly follow whatever Topeka dictates. at what point do we actually have a say?
as I have said many times in this thread, I am all for FT... but the implementation needs tweaked better still, not just "well we are gonna make everyone get this new piece, and if this sedan unit doesnt fit, you gotta buy this double expensive unit we just came up with".
~Matt Clark
Now you're very much sounding like you have your head buried in the sand, Steve. Sorry, I respect you, but I gotta say you're wrong on much of the above.
I haven't posted much video of the unit in play as I've had video mount and other vehicle issues - but I assure you it has been VERY helpful in the two Super Tour races I've run with it. Just look at my responses in this thread - and remember I was one of the loudest bitc#ing about the FIA lights (and would still, if I thought it would help).
Ironically, the only video I did post from the Sprints was rain quali, and I cropped my front camera view down (since it was pretty useless due to moisture) until the Flagtronics was almost out of frame... but NOT QUITE! Indeed, in those conditions I should've relied on it a lot more, since it was the only thing I could reliably see; I was blind going into T1 at speed, and scared someone might be spun across track and invisible (since rain lights only work when you're pointing the right way!)! But the FT would've told me if there was an issue... feast your eyes... but realize that of course we basically went green all the way to the checker in an amazing display of driving skill by the entire group... very unlike the SM junkyard before us...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mahUxeM8pWM
Properly located it is definitely NOT buried in the cockpit and should be readily visible in peripheral vision with your eyes up the road where they should be.
Yes, I agree the cost is not trivial, yet I'm not surprised in the least that it was damn near double the price for the smaller display.
And yes, this could price some out of the market, and it's very frustrating... but it would be a lot more tolerable if National weren't also foisting such frivolous requirements as FIA certification stickers on us at the same time...
Hey, if you'd just kept the EFF you could have knocked that tire budget WAY down.
Caldwell D9B - Sold
Crossle' 30/32/45 Mongrel - Sold
RF94 Monoshock - here goes nothin'
The '97 FF was picked up by its new owner yesterday. I think it will be 'back in the struggle' during the Labor Day event at INDE Motorsports Ranch.Hey, if you'd just kept the EFF you could have knocked that tire budget WAY down.
Seemingly a lot of people strongly convinced this is "useless" and forced despite them having never actually used.
I have used it for a year plus now and it is very, very useful. It makes racing easier. We will get more green flag laps.
No excuses for blown checkers delaying sessions.
No two or three laps around VIR before they even roll safety vehicles.
We could save many, many laps of track time using this. It works well. You can makes the traditional cheaper unit fit in most cockpits if you try a bit.
New feedback... and two issues
Ran my first race weekend WITHOUT the Flagtronics this past weekend for the Cat Majors.
Damn, I missed it. Would probably have saved me from a very bad (in the sense of incorrect) CSA - not to mention a very dangerous incident on the front straight - and thus rebuttal protest on Sunday - thankfully, my video mounts worked this time, unlike at the Sprints, allowing us to sort everything out.
Oh, did I mention flagging was a bit weak this weekend? Race Control, too, it seemed... another highlight being getting "white flagged" when I should've been blue-flagged, during a waste of a quali session Saturday morning.
But aside from that... I did identify two issues.
Doesn't seem like the (outsourced of course) GPS antenna is rated for prolonged speed. Came in from Sunday's race to find mine had separated from the base/magnet, which was still firmly stuck to the metal plate I added for just that purpose. The remainder had popped up in the wind and was hanging by the wire - which was thankfully extremely short. So gotta glue or whatever that back together... and I wasn't even the fastest in the traps! I guess I have good airflow attachment at that point... LOL
I also experienced the erroneous medical alert warning after hitting the rumble strips at one point (T6)... which surprised me, considering the unit was not supposed to be active! A bit distracting as I was blasting through T7... will be forwarding some SW algorithm recommendations to prevent that issue going forward. Easy to solve. Just gotta wait for the car to actually stop before bothering to ask that question! LOL
But yeah, I was sure to highlight to the Stews, when we were chatting (great guys, BTW!) about how much I missed my Flagtronics and wish it were available to us during the weekend. Not as a mandatory tech, but recommended and supported. We are SO much safer with it. Great way to prevent unexpected t-boning on the high speed sections... good thing I have a lot of practice doing emergency avoidance lane changes at speed!!
[QUOTE=924RACR;666434]
I also experienced the erroneous medical alert warning after hitting the rumble strips at one point (T6)... which surprised me, considering the unit was not supposed to be active! A bit distracting as I was blasting through T7... will be forwarding some SW algorithm recommendations to prevent that issue going forward. Easy to solve. Just gotta wait for the car to actually stop before bothering to ask that question! LOL
/QUOTE]
They do have a different firmware for stiffer cars if you contact them.
In the NP-01 we were getting that constantly at Charlotte on the banking. It turned out we had an older firmware still in the unit.
Apparently we were getting the same g readings as a miata hitting a tire wall and it kept triggering it lol
Cool, and of course I will... but there's NO reason to bother the driver when the car's still moving. In any direction or orientation.
So - I'm not sure about the firmware for stiffer cars, but I do know one of the updated firmware versions would "see" the car was still moving after a false alarm and automatically turn it off.
I specifically saw the alarms on the control software, saw them turn off, and went to impound to ask the drivers if they saw it/turned it off - in one case the driver did manually shut it off and needed to update firmware. In two other cases the driver's didn't press anything and it turned off on its own after a few seconds (one of those two drivers never even saw the impact light).
Jon K - 1986 Swift DB3/Honda
Mmmm, yeah - too late. Should never be displayed, in such a case...
The indycar race last weekend had a major accident and there's been a lot of discussion about the flagging - but I didn't see any in-car showing the operation of the flagtronics system. What you CAN see is the rain and wing lights coming on well after all the major contact.
Just thinking of the difficulty of seeing any kind of flagging while pack racing inside a swimming pool. Wonder what, if any, analysis there will be regarding the operation of the system during that incident.
Indycar does not use Flagtronics. They use the system from EM Motorsports in the UK that is FIA approved.
CAT Major
Referencing the CAT Major event, some questions about the non use of the FT system.
1) Was the system available in/for SCCA RC? Did RC have staff available with experience with the FT system?
2) Who is going to typically own the FT system in the tower/RC? Will the individual regions need their own corner station modules?
Brian
Has anyone ordered the FT-RD (remote screen ) unit?
They say they are shipping this week....
https://flagtronics.myshopify.com/ap.../bundle/135600
There are currently 38 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 38 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote