I'm thinking mount it wherever you want and aim a $30 Amazon endoscope at it that comes with remote screen.
I'm thinking mount it wherever you want and aim a $30 Amazon endoscope at it that comes with remote screen.
Originally Posted by romoman
Where did you find this video? also can the lights be adapted to the AIM formula wheel?
Brian
You'll find the video at the bottom of this page:
https://flagtronics.com/
Mike, I have a STACK ST8100 occupying my dash assembly, and have absolutely no room. Let me know of your design.
BTW, I have another two projects for you
V/r
Iverson
James, any update on this? Any hints on wiring connections as I'm planning a harness upgrade now for other things and if this is mandatory, may as well build it in.
Also, any chance of making it receive GPS info from CAN so we don't need eleventy-three GPS receivers in the car?
The Flagtronic GPS is a transceiver, it it both transmits and receives data. Very specific to the system.
Brian
Rgr. Missed that part.
It's so wonderful something so early in development is mandated. I can't wait to be thrashing around later this summer figuring out how to implement it before the runoffs.
What about CAN connection to older Motec systems like a SDL or ADL?
Last edited by Speed Sport Engineering; 02.05.24 at 5:10 PM.
Ferg indicates that is possible with the Motec SDL through the warning lights. I’m going to wait for the smaller unit before making a decision. I think the standard line is workable however; it isn’t that big.
I sent a letter to the CRB today requesting a delay in the mandated implementation of this system for open wheel cars until the second season that occurs after an open wheel friendly version is available.
I suggest if you feel the same, please submit a letter!
The speed at which this has become a mandate given it's unproven nature in open wheel race cockpits is sickening to me, and just reeks of back door financial deals.
I really am a bit perplexed by the dislike of this system.
Having used in a couple races now, I think it is fantastic. Being able to go code 35 at VIR instead of having to go FCY or BFA would save us so much track time.
It works so well.
Are you referring to the "Overview" video?
I apologize if this has been covered already, but are there instructions anywhere for making the Flagtronics work with AIM EVO 4s? That would be my preferred solution. I have no visible location to mount the FT200 and would appreciate not having to pay double for the smaller unit.
Thanks, Cory
I am glad you feel it work well. Hopefully, in the end, it will be successful for all.
The main dislike of this system is the packaging. Being a larger person in a tight fitting car, I literally no space for this devices current display. Most of us take pride in the way we setup, layout, etc. It's part of the love of OW racing.
Then there is the mandate.
- Many feel this was sprung on us with little to no feedback opportunity. Choices were not made available. Whether the best choice was made is not really the point. It's the dictation of a decision. We thought this was a club and we were members but it's acting more like a government agency.
- Now, for most of us, to get packaging that will work, we have to pay a premium. A penalty or tax on our class.
It still irks me and I will wait until I absolutely have to install it. That said it appears to me the Supertour and Majors participation is low this year. Coincidence?
I have several issues with the mandate.
As BeerBudget stated, larger drivers (I'm almost 6'4") need to pay very careful attention to where everything is placed in the cockpit. The amount of time I've spent modifying steering shaft mounts, sway bar adjusters, switches, bias adjusters, shift linkages, wire routing to the dash, fire pull lever, radio access, ect. is staggering. Every inch of space is carefully thought out and used.
Most of us will not accept the system without integrating it into our existing wiring. For some it's a requirement as something as simple as wire routing can be a challenge. When I added ride height sensors last year, I spent over $400 in Raychem shrink tubing, connectors, ect. I suspect this will be no different. Therefore it's not just a $249 install.
Then there is the weight. I haven't seen weight figures published, but I'm assuming with the display, wires, gps and battery, it must be close to 2lbs. I have to fight for every pound to stay close to the minimum weight. I've analyzed what I've spent on weight reduction, and it averages to about $800 per pound. I'm also running out of ideas, so I suspect that average will go up. So if this unit ends up adding 2lb, I'll need to find it somewhere else to remove at a cost of $1600+.
Therefore my true cost is closer to $2000 to install not including my labor.
Typically the adaption of new technology follows the path of introduction, then the early adopters get on board, early adopters identify needed improvements, changes are made to make it more appealing to the masses, it gains wider acceptance and usage, then it's mandated. We went from step one to the final step in less then a year. Why? What's the rush? I can only assume money.
I get the size thing. I am 6'3" and 220 pounds. I have limited space but this thing is no bigger than a bias knob.
What requirement for feedback are required to have for something like this? People seem to misunderstand the definition of club racing. It is club in that it is not pro, not club that everyone gets a vote in what happens.
I don't think participation is down because of this thing since there is NO requirement that we have it. How would a non-required device make participation fall?
It's quite obvious that this was developed by sedan racers for sedan racers with no thought whatsoever given to the formula/sportsracer group. Further, it's clear that it was mandated by the SCCA with no thought whatsoever given to the F/SR red-headed stepchildren. Only now is a "smaller" version (but double the price!) being developed as an afterthought after this community raised our concerns. I think a delay in implementation is completely reasonable.
Mike Beauchamp
RF95 Prototype 2
Get your FIA rain lights here:
www.gyrodynamics.net/product/cartek-fia-rain-light/
I can't 'see' the bias knob I have. I have no chance of 'feeling' the color of the display.
Club "an organization of people with a common purpose or interest,"
They do promote the illusion that our vote matters. There is a current vote on something right now - but it isn't car related.
See thread on cost of racing.
Amen
Put it off until it becomes proven and accepted. My issue besides non value added cost, is that how are you going to remember all the combinations that it can shown the proposed tiny formula car display.
I oculd not even remember them when watching the short video, let alone when driving.
This as it exists now will prove IMHO to be a significant distraction and cause more trouble than it prevents.
Just think, the tiny flashing display will potentially change at every flag station.
We need to be watching the track and not some silly display in the cockpit.
I called Flagtronics and they were not very helpful. Gentleman stated that I had to call the Club and they could provide me the information about the New Formula car system.I am with Michael,if they can’t provide a product in a timely manner and the Club makes unattainable decisions,I think we scrap it til next year so everyone is more prepared.IMHP.
Tim MinorFc88
Tim Minor
I used this system for the first time last weekend at a Champcar race. I have to say it worked very well, and the actual size in person is very small and will fit my car or any of the cars I service just fine. Purple 35 seemed like a much easier system than pace car to me. I will put one in my car with no complaints as soon as they start using it at all the races.
I called Flagtronics and they were not very helpful. Gentleman stated that I had to call the Club and they could provide me the information about the New Formula car system.I am with Michael,if they can’t provide a product in a timely manner and the Club makes unattainable decisions,I think we scrap it til next year so everyone is more prepared.IMHP.
Tim MinorFc88
I find it odd that the manufacturer suggested to call the club to get an update on the manufactures product? Not doubting you Tim, it just calls into question what the relationship is between SCCA and Flagtronics?
I think we should scrap it all together. If you can't pay attention to flags, I don't think you should be in a racecar. It's not hard and it's literally the first thing you learn in driver's school. If you can't be bothered to glance at every flag station every time by I doubt you are watching your mirrors either.
I have mine installed, like it and find it worthwhile.
My experience I've found Flagtronics to be surprisingly helpful. When I installed mine, I didn't pay any attention to the unique number each unit has, kinda like your transponder. Apparently the number is on the back or the bottom. Mine is just mounted with velcro but didn't want to take it off so I called Flagtronics, they looked up my email and were able to give me my number based on that.
At NOLA they had a rep. there, when mine didn't respond as it should in the first session he came to my paddock spot and updated it for me - took 30 seconds at most.
For install I did cut the protective jacket over the wires so I could get a hard 90, that was really the hardest part, not sure what that jacket is made of. Not a lot of room between the steering wheel and the unit but just enough that my fingers don't touch while driving.
I prefer to get it done so I don't have to mess with it later.
No way I could do that. I don't have that kind of space. My data display is there. I don't have a formula wheel.
Really the practical solution is integration with AIM - which will require me to upgrade.
So I'll be spending money on these changes rather than racing.
Between the rain light and this I'm estimating more than $3000 in cost which doesn't improve me or the car.
Did you try to integrate it into the Aim wheel or is that an older system?
Good and bad. Good that FT offered such great service. Bad that: A) The system didn't respond as it should; B) I seriously doubt there will be a FT rep at every race to correct an issue. How will the stewards react if there is a flag violation caused by a faulty FT? I agree with Reid that everyone should be paying attention to the real flags but I could see a race official relying too heavily on FT. I just don't think this system is ready for prime time.
Mike Beauchamp
RF95 Prototype 2
Get your FIA rain lights here:
www.gyrodynamics.net/product/cartek-fia-rain-light/
Michael:
We have been here before on several issues, and the “safety in numbers” concept has proven to be very effective.
I recommend you post your petition here, that can easily be cut and pasted for maximum effectiveness. All that needs to be done is to amend the signature block, and inundate.
V/r
Iverson
An FT200 weighs 0.12lbs. Harness & GPS add 0.58lbs.
Early adoption happened years ago in another org. Many changes and improvements were identified and did happen over the course of years and thousands of units in the field.
The mechanical designers involved started in open wheel. We'll get some images up on our site with respect to installs. Many have done a great job with their installations and we've taken a few photos of them over time.
The display unit will have a pigtail out that can be left, right, or rear exit. The control unit is similar in form factor to an existing FT200 but thinner. You'll need to get power, ground, and CAN wires (if connecting to displays, telemetry, loggers, etc).
Long term we do hope to do some GPS sharing with some ECU & Logger manufacturers. It takes time and extreme care as positional accuracy is critical for this purpose.
Installed on Citation FV
It feels like cheating to have so much room compared to some cockpits, but I did have to remove the dash and reconfigure it to make space to add a mount bracket. But after 8 hours, it is visible to me with the bodywork on.
BLS, DanW, helipilot04, jcolley, RussMcB
How is it working??
Since there have been at least a couple of Super Tour events, I am wondering what the results people have seen from the flagtronics unit??
Operationally, when the lead car has had Flagtronics, we've been able to get the Safety Car out more reliably and sooner when there's been a full course yellow. Until the full field is equipped it's interesting to see those using it, but not much else we can do with it in Race Control.
Peter Olivola
(polivola@gmail.com)
I found it amusing to see a rules update email for Mid-O, noting that the Flagtronics is optional for all groups EXCEPT SMX - mandatory for them, including potential VSC usage, to try to keep them under better control...
...if the shoe fits...
There may be a more innocent explanation. The Flagtronics-in-SMX initiative comes from within the SMX community.
See: https://specmx-5.com/2024/04/26/spec...nship-runoffs/
John Nesbitt
ex-Swift DB-1
any drivers have feedback??
see title
About what?? About USE of FT? About installation? About COST? About 'rammed down throat?
Also not sure what 'title' you are referring to...title of the entire thread?
I have it installed in my FV and have seen it in operation at a couple of HSTs. I have a couple of opinions, but it works only 'a bit' at most events since MOST cars do NOT have it installed. The main utility as I see it is for Race Control.. not for the drivers.
Steve
Steve, FV80
Racing since '73 - FV since '77
Are there instructions anywhere for configuring it to work with AIM EVO4s and GS Dash? No way to see the FT display in my car, so integrating it with the data system will be preferable to buying the smaller display (when/if available before the Runoffs) at 2x the price. Thanks!
There are 'some' instructions on the website. I'd suggest that you contact 'romoman' (poster here). HE has come up with most of the answers and offered help to others in various posts regarding this option.
I should add.. it's not a 'trivial task'. It CAN BE DONE, but takes a LOT of knowledge and understanding about the protocols involved to actually come up with a FIX .. and most will be quite UNIQUE compared to the others.
Steve, FV80
Steve, FV80
Racing since '73 - FV since '77
Wait! What?! Integration with EVO 4S and an Aim Dash? That's a big deal, if it is possible. Especially if the Aim Formula 3 wheel could be done. Lots of racers have that wheel.
Dean Fehribach
Car owner: SCCA Enterprises FE2 #037.
Co-owner: SCCA C-Spec Mazda 3
Car owner: 2017 Ford Mustang EcoBoost Autocross STU
I have used it in WRL for a year now. I love it. Switch to electronic flag boards at the corners and it will perfect.
So easy to see. Allowing for code 35 instead of FCY is much better and allows the field to gather up faster.
It should have been implemented years ago.
Steve, I hear you and agree about being rammed down throat. I am not in favor at all.
It sounds like not much help from a drivers point of view, as I suspected.
It does sound like a ton of hassle from an install and make it work apparently without much support from the manufacturer.
As I posted months ago: get it developed and reliable, easy to use then implement it if most drivers agree.
This is NOT a simple inexpensive device and it has not proven to be very useful to the driver from what I can tell.
Peter O
Peter,
How did Flagtronics facilitate fast pick up of the leader by the pace car?
Is it because the Flagtronics has the GPS making the leader very easy to locate?
There are currently 90 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 90 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote