Announcing the new Nova F600 Blade

[formulasuper]

I remember that. The MC 750 was more expensive - and way more powerful - than the proposed 2 stroke snowmobile engines. The later MC 600 changed all that.

Jim

Actually the 95' GSXR 750 only had 118 HP compared to the 2012 GSXR 600 with 124 HP.

[ny_racer_xxx]

Actually the 95' GSXR 750 only had 118 HP compared to the 2012 GSXR 600 with 124 HP.

What was the sled motor desure making back then? I bet it was quite a bit less than 100hp.... And a 94 GSXR750 motor is HUGE!!!!

And at 124hp, that's an inflated factory at the crank rating.... One of the racers can pop in, but I think they're more like mid teens, 115'ish.....

CR

[Brian.Novak]

Somebody had to have some Cojones to go against the two smokers, they are too stupid of a powerplant to have that much chassis, they belong where the snow is deep, and the Moose are nervous!!!!

CR

I wouldn't go that far....

[Mike Devins]

Foam is scheduled to go to the machine shop to be NC cut on 4/1! and to be back in the shop on 4/4. Pictures to follow.

[glenn cooper]

What does the "Better Fabrics Testing Bureau" have to do with anything?

Bang
For
The
Buck!

[Jnovak]

What was the sled motor desure making back then? I bet it was quite a bit less than 100hp.... And a 94 GSXR750 motor is HUGE!!!!

And at 124hp, that's an inflated factory at the crank rating.... One of the racers can pop in, but I think they're more like mid teens, 115'ish.....

CR

I think that the peak HP on our engine dyno test with the GSX-R600 UN-RESTRICTED had 126hp at the transmission output shaft. This is with a very good set of modified bike racing headers to fit the car, no muffler, stock airbox and optimized ecu.

My guess it that this would be about 5-6% better than a stock bike setup.

Thanks ... Jay Novak
45 years as an SCCA member
with a special thanks to every SCCA worker

[ny_racer_xxx]

I think that the peak HP on our engine dyno test with the GSX-R600 UN-RESTRICTED had 126hp at the transmission output shaft. This is with a very good set of modified bike racing headers to fit the car, no muffler, stock airbox and optimized ecu.

My guess it that this would be about 5-6% better than a stock bike setup.

Thanks ... Jay Novak
45 years as an SCCA member
with a special thanks to every SCCA worker

and 126hp less 6% is what? 118.44hp I was pretty darn close....

What's your experience with the best 2 stroke at the crank?

CR

[Jnovak]

and 126hp less 6% is what? 118.44hp I was pretty darn close....

What's your experience with the best 2 stroke at the crank?

CR

Chris, I am simply reporting the numbers, nothing more.
Remember this was UN-RESTRICTED, with no inlet restictors. With the 32mm inlet restrictors the engines are well under 110 hp and the F600 min weight is 875lbs.

[Christopher Crowe]

Congratulations on a very neat looking machine.

Chris Crowe

[ny_racer_xxx]

Chris, I am simply reporting the numbers, nothing more.
Remember this was UN-RESTRICTED, with no inlet restictors. With the 32mm inlet restrictors the engines are well under 110 hp and the F600 min weight is 875lbs.

Jay, I'm not arguing with you, I had stated that a stock motor was around 115hp at the PTO and that the 124hp advertised HP was a little exaggerated... that's all

[Daryl DeArman]

Bang
For
The
Buck!

Got it. Yes, certainly looks to score high in that category.

[Mike Devins]

Foam model will be completed sometime tonight

[Jnovak]

As I posted recently there is much progress on the new Nova F600 Blade. There are multiple projects going on at the same time but here is an update on the bodywork.

The machining of the body buck is nearly finished and should be completed by tonight. Mike Devins of Hurley Racing Products is building all the body components and tooling required to make the bodies for the new F600.

http://www.hurleyracingproducts.com/index.html

This method was chosen as it will produce the most accurate body at the lowest possible cost. The body will be as close to the SolidWorks & CFD models as is possible. The basis for the buck was made from large blocks of tooling foam that were glued together to create an approximation of a block that the body would fit into. This "block" is then machined on a very large 5 axis milling machine so that the final product will be dimensionally accurate.

Mike has already posted a couple of pics but here are a few more. Mike will be posting some additional pictures and a video (if it comes out).

This is a view of the nose during the milling.




Lots of snow while machining the cockpit opening.




Just a little aero bulge to clear the front pushrod.

[ny_racer_xxx]

Really SWEET!!! I would have to agree, that's probably the fastest, most accurate way of making a plug from a Solidworks file..... Probably could use it for an investment casting...

That advance Solidworks course starts next week...... Maybe I can send you some kart bodywork for CFD analysis?

CR

[PlaneJob]

That looks really cool. I admire your design skills.

[Mike Devins]

a couple more pictures - I will post a video after editing.

[f500racer]

Drool.

[tedsimmons2]

Do you intend to direct air over or under the nose? Looks like over the nose which is somewhat different from your previous Novakar designs. Ted

[Tiago Santos]

That's fantastic How long does a big piece like that take to cut? I imagine the feeds and speeds must be pretty satisfying!

[Purple Frog]

Ted,
Look at some of the high end LeMans cars and you may see your answer. The front noses are ground effect devices, and the air moving underneath makes a little trip thru the rads on it's way out (maybe?)

[Jnovak]

Do you intend to direct air over or under the nose? Looks like over the nose which is somewhat different from your previous Novakar designs. Ted

Both over and under as in the RakaVon Ted. It is actually very similar to the Rakavon body with a lot of minor changes as a result of the CFD I have done in the last year. The biggest visual difference in the nose is that it has the ledge in the front and the leading edge is less blunt.

[racerdad2]

Fantastic

[Mike Devins]

That's fantastic How long does a big piece like that take to cut? I imagine the feeds and speeds must be pretty satisfying!

It took just under 20 hours to cut - the 3 axis machine it was on has a very old controller and is actually pretty slow, I would estimate under 10 on a new 5-axis machine.

[ny_racer_xxx]

It took just under 20 hours to cut - the 3 axis machine it was on has a very old controller and is actually pretty slow, I would estimate under 10 on a new 5-axis machine.

Wow, 20 hours!!!! Probably what, 5 times that by hand? I'm sure know better, but from what I've been told by a buddy that does smaller foam machining, you can't machine it too fast or the tool bit gets hot and melts the foam. That being said, I guess the tool paths would be more efficient with a 5 axis. Did you flip it on it's side and index it to do some machining?

Jay looking at George's RAKOVAN, I can see some of the changes in the nose, slightly less blunt where it goes over the wheels. I bet the older nose had a big red blob there on the CFD!!!

CR

[GBugg]

... looking at George's ... I bet the older nose had a big red blob ...

CR

Hey!!! What'r'ya tryin' to say here, Chris?!?!?
I might *hic* resemble that comment....

I think the new Blade is going to be awesome - especially on the long straights!

[ny_racer_xxx]

Hey!!! What'r'ya tryin' to say here, Chris?!?!?
I might *hic* resemble that comment....

I think the new Blade is going to be awesome - especially on the long straights!

Just looking at the bodywork I can see some places where it's change that's all buddy...

That might also mean less down force, so.....

CR

[mblanc]

So,......

Isn't a F440/F5/F600 actually a sports racer, not a Formula car, ??? Looks like it to me.

Also, for those of us that have completely ignored those smelly annoying snowmobile powered things,
what IS the suspension configuration? Isn't there something like pushrods? but no shocks?
what is 'an elastomer springing system' and how's it work?

[flat tappet]

So,......

Isn't a F440/F5/F600 actually a sports racer, not a Formula car, ??? Looks like it to me.

Also, for those of us that have completely ignored those smelly annoying snowmobile powered things,
what IS the suspension configuration? Isn't there something like pushrods? but no shocks?
what is 'an elastomer springing system' and how's it work?

KEEPING IN MIND THAT THERE ARE A FEW FOLKS ON HERE WHO ACTUALLY LIKE "THOSE SMELLY,ANNOYING SNOWMOBILE POWERED THINGS" FREQUENTING THIS FORUM......lol

[ny_racer_xxx]

So,......

Isn't a F440/F5/F600 actually a sports racer, not a Formula car, ??? Looks like it to me.

Also, for those of us that have completely ignored those smelly annoying snowmobile powered things,
what IS the suspension configuration? Isn't there something like pushrods? but no shocks?
what is 'an elastomer springing system' and how's it work?

From the GCR F500 Bodywork section: Sports car noses are recommended provided they do not extend beyond the outside edge of the front tires.

CR

[Marshall Mauney]

So,......

Isn't a F440/F5/F600 actually a sports racer, not a Formula car, ??? Looks like it to me.

No. The tops of the wheel are always open, and many (most?) F500/600s have narrow noses. The "sportscar nose" is an option, not a requirement.

Also, for those of us that have completely ignored those smelly annoying snowmobile powered things,

The F600 isn't snowmobile powered. It uses a 600cc motorcycle engine/transmission, similar to the 1000cc FB drivetrain.

what IS the suspension configuration? Isn't there something like pushrods? but no shocks? what is 'an elastomer springing system' and how's it work?

It can be pushrod or pullrod. The "elastomer" is a small round rubber "puck" that serves as the spring in the suspension, with the specific material unrestricted. How the puck is used is open to the designer's imagination, but they are generally used in side-to-side compression, resulting in a progressive spring rate. There are a lot of very creative approaches out there in F500/F600s that result in a wide variety of handling characteristics. Done right, these cars are a blast to drive, and roughly as fast as FF. I'd bet that a F600 without the restrictor in place would be faster than even the top FFs at most tracks.

[m3cruzzer]

From the GCR F500 Bodywork section: Sports car noses are recommended provided they do not extend beyond the outside edge of the front tires.

CR

and

9. Bodywork
All mechanical components of the car, forward of the roll cage, shall be covered by suitable bodywork. Exceptions are the wheels, brakes, front suspension components, and the cockpit

I read that to mean the suspension, like the cockpit, must be uncovered.

Dave

[ny_racer_xxx]

and

9. Bodywork
All mechanical components of the car, forward of the roll cage, shall be covered by suitable bodywork. Exceptions are the wheels, brakes, front suspension components, and the cockpit

I read that to mean the suspension, like the cockpit, must be uncovered.

Dave

"Sports car noses are recommended provided they do not extend beyond the outside edge of the front tires."

I was replying to why they look like a sports car, and if the cockpit was covered, then it wouldn't be an "open cockpit" formula car....

[Marshall Mauney]

9. Bodywork
All mechanical components of the car, forward of the roll cage, shall be covered by suitable bodywork. Exceptions are the wheels, brakes, front suspension components, and the cockpit

I read that to mean the suspension, like the cockpit, must be uncovered.

No, it merely says that those components are not required to be covered.

[Jnovak]

KEEPING IN MIND THAT THERE ARE A FEW FOLKS ON HERE WHO ACTUALLY LIKE "THOSE SMELLY,ANNOYING SNOWMOBILE POWERED THINGS" FREQUENTING THIS FORUM......lol

Of course I designed the Blade so that it can also use a Rotax and thus can be an F500 too.

[Brian.Novak]

Also, for those of us that have completely ignored those smelly annoying snowmobile powered things,

I used to eat FFs for lunch in one of those smelly things

[formulasuper]

I used to eat FFs for lunch in one of those smelly things

Smells like victory.

[Jnovak]

Several of Brian's F500 lap records from 2007 in the RaKaVon, (still records) are faster than the current FF records.

[SEComposites]

What are the relative power to weight ratios between F600 and FF? I would have thought a lighter F600 with more power and a 6 speed 'box should be faster anyway?

[farrout]

these cars are a blast to drive, and roughly as fast as FF. I'd bet that a F600 without the restrictor in place would be faster than even the top FFs at most tracks.

Have you not seen Clint drive one lately? He was dropping 1:30's at the ARRC compared to 1:36 for the FF/CF top drivers?

[Gokart Mozart]

So,......

Isn't a F440/F5/F600 actually a sports racer, not a Formula car, ??? Looks like it to me.

Also, for those of us that have completely ignored those smelly annoying snowmobile powered things,
what IS the suspension configuration? Isn't there something like pushrods? but no shocks?
what is 'an elastomer springing system' and how's it work?

Using this logic, wouldn't most F1 entries from 1972-1974 with the full-width noses be sports racers?

To unravel the suspension mystery, stop on by at Blackhawk or RA and I'd be more than willing to show you the inner workings of my smelly, annoying little F5 machine; the one in which I call the best bang for cubic dollars spent in my time in racing, and that includes my coinciding time in FF.

Jacques N. Dresang