Elan Power Plant , Action Required

[Phil Picard]

Being at 6 pages I did not want this to be lost.

It doesn't matter now who said what when. It all doesn't matter now.

Regardless of what SCCA stated, your previous letters on the élan issue will not count.

IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT WE ALL WRITE AS WELL AS E-MAIL to the CRB AND the BOD

This cannot be stressed enough. THIS CANNOT BE STRESSED ENOUGH.

Whether its a done deal or not, PLEASE, PLEASE write the letters.

Whether or not you hate writing letters, Write the letter!

Its great to post all your thoughts on this but... WRITE THE LETTER

For the love of God... Write the freaking letters.... Now

No need to continue posting under this.. This is what we need to do...

All input must be received by 5:00 p.m. Central on Friday, February 22 so that the Board of Directors may vote on the motion.

Comp Board E-mail

crb@scca.com

Board of Directors E mail & General Box bod@scca.com

Area 1 - Robert Introne Jr.
Area 2 -Jerry Wannarka
Area 3 - K.P Jones
Area 4 - Larry Dent
Area 5 - Robert Lybarger
Area 6 - Lisa Noble
Area 7 - Michael Sauce
Area 8 - James Christian
Area 9 - R.J. Gordy
Area 10 - John Sheridan
Area 11 - Andy Porterfield
Area 12 - Philip Creighton
Area 13 - Howard Allen


Mailing Address

Sports Car Club of America
PO Box 19400
Topeka KS 66619

[Phil Picard]

It has come to my attention that Jim Julow, President of SCCA will now play a "Big Role" in this matter.
I encourage all of the FC community to please click a few more times and re-send your letters to:

president@scca.com




Our opportunity to be heard expires on Feb 22 @ 5 pm

Thanks Jim for spotting that so quick

[jim morgan]

Jim Julow

[KevinFirlein]

I sent a letter to Julow and other members of the executive staff as well as the entire BoD asking specific questions. Only reply I got was from Terry Ozment.

[Phil Picard]

[SIZE=2]
Copy of what I recived back

Hi Phil,
We received your letter, and forwarded it to the Club Racing Board and
the appropriate advisory committee for their consideration.

Your input will be placed on the next available Club Racing Board
agenda. The CRB generally meets once a month, however some issues
require additional consideration that may include a request for more
information from you, the advisory committee, a manufacturer, and/or the
membership at large. An official response to your inquiry will be
published in FasTrack News, which is posted to the SCCA website
(www.scca.com) on the 20th of every month.

As a member-driven organization, we appreciate your interest and
involvement.

Sincerely,

John Bauer
Technical Assistant
SCCA Club Racing
PO Box 19400
Topeka KS 66619
(800) 770-2055
jbauer@scca.com
[/SIZE]

[KevinFirlein]

well ya I got that back for the letter I wrote the CRB. I wrote a second letter asking direct questions from the people who are supposed to be in charge. Only Terry responded saying that SCCA doesnt respond to threats but that member input was only going to be part of whatever they decide to do.

[enjoythetrack]

If you like my e-mail, feel free to copy/paste it and send it to:

Jim president@scca.com


Jim,

As a member of SCCA who drives in the FC classification I see no reason to have the Elan engine/package when we already have the older Pinto/Kent and new Zetec package. As a spec racing class (FC), one would assume proper independent testing and due diligence is in order to ensure parity BEFORE any consideration to add a new engine/package to FC classification as being legal and allowed for competition.

Thanks for your time and attention on this matter.

YOUR NAME and Member # _______

[RussMcB]

<snip> Only Terry responded saying that SCCA doesnt respond to threats <snip>

What did you say in your letter?! :-).

[DaveW]

It doesn't matter now who said what when. It all doesn't matter now.

Regardless of what SCCA stated, your previous letters on the élan issue will not count.

IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT WE ALL WRITE AS WELL AS E-MAIL to the CRB AND the BOD

This cannot be stressed enough. THIS CANNOT BE STRESSED ENOUGH.

Whether its a done deal or not, PLEASE, PLEASE write the letters.

Whether or not you hate writing letters, Write the letter!

Its great to post all your thoughts on this but... WRITE THE LETTER

Bump !!!!!!!

[Shep]

E-mail sent to CRB, BOD, President and Area 10 Director.

[HazelNut]

send your letters to ALL the directors.

[Garey Guzman]

As a spec racing class (FC), ....

I don't think FC is considered a spec racing class.

[Zebra]

it is

Charles the rules Finelli

[rickb99]

Ummm I don't think so Charles. At least not so in the minds of Topeka. We FC's have RULES in the GCR. But.........

PER FAST TRACK (March 08) with the Elan hoopla.

In the NOT RECOMMENDED section...

Formula:
2. FC Restrict the number of Zetec engine builders (Nicholas). FC is not a spec. class.

In their logical minds, you cannot restrict the number of engine builders based upon their "rules". Rather you have to have a class designated as "Spec".

Now based upon that reasoning, Quicksilver (or Jim or Bob) could build an FE engine? That is until FE is renamed SFE to be safe.

[Zebra]

Thanks Rick, I miss you.

Chas Fin

[Garey Guzman]

it is

Charles the rules Finelli

Actually, it's a RESTRICTED class. If you look at the first sentence in the GCR, you'll see that. Maybe have someone read it to you?

Garey "I have a pot-strirrer too" Guzman

[Zebra]

Its all fun

[Garey Guzman]

it is

[enjoythetrack]

Ummm I don't think so Charles. At least not so in the minds of Topeka. We FC's have RULES in the GCR. But.........
PER FAST TRACK (March 08) with the Elan hoopla.
In the NOT RECOMMENDED section...
Formula:
2. FC Restrict the number of Zetec engine builders (Nicholas). FC is not a spec. class.
In their logical minds, you cannot restrict the number of engine builders based upon their "rules". Rather you have to have a class designated as "Spec".
Now based upon that reasoning, Quicksilver (or Jim or Bob) could build an FE engine? That is until FE is renamed SFE to be safe.

Thanks for pointing that out. Was going to post it, yet as a newbie am treading lightly here on the board. You know, me being all new and all that. Gotta earn my keep. Most of you guys obviously know eachother for quite some time while this newbie is simply seeing it as, well, i see it.

In my eyes it is a spec class as engine is spec'ed and (Zetec) SEALED and there are many other spec-like rules. It is not like we can show up in any engine/intake package provided it meets a certain cu/in displacement/size and use whatever engine management we so desire. Same with tranny, we are limited as to what we can use.

Am willing to be wrong and say FC is not spec class. No ego here, no worries and RESTRICTED CLASS works for me. i humbly stand corrected. The fact remains we are forced to use a very limited (two) choice of engines that meet SCCA specifications, with the Zetec having to operate on a very limiting engine management program or else you will suffer a full year ban (perhaps the worst penalty beside a lifetime ban, if SCCA has such a thing).

What if i showed up with an Elan package at an F2000 race? While it may be 'legal,' judging by the posts here it may also be 'reputation suicide'.

[S Lathrop]

I don't see anything in the GCR that restricts who can build a Zetec FC engine. The rules clearly say what parts you must use and how you may modify them.

The only reference to Quicksilver RacEngines is that you must us some parts that they make. Just as you must use the Pectel T2 ECU with the SCCA Club map. and the QSRE intaks restrictor.

It is only coincidence that Quicksilver RaceEngines also builds racing enginec for FC. They happen to build both Zetec and Pinto engines for FC. Elite also offers the same services.

In any event, the rules state that you must use certain parts and you either use them as they come or you modify them as perscribed in the rules. It is not possible to have two sources for intake manifolds if (1) you do not allow any modifications and (2) you want equal performance. The machining process used to finish the intake runner will have a dramatic effect on the performance, even to the point where two differrent type machines doing the same process will get different results. QSRE has been keeping records on every manifold they produce to help assure consistance in performance.

When it was proposed that we add the Zetec engine to the FC class, I thought that was the engine package that had been used in the F2000 pro series. I also understood that the engine would be retuned and other adjustments would be made to equalize the proformance between the Zetec and the Pintos.

I don't see how anything in these rules makes this a spec engine or that you must use a QSRE prepared engine.


This is Formula car racing!!! Formula car racing is building cars to a formula that is spelled out in a rule book. If it is not spelled out in the rule book it is not part of the formula.

Somehow the people in charge of the rules can't see this fact. They also can't follow the rules they themselves write. Else we would not have this mess. The current group of individuals who are administering and writing the rules have not done an acceptable job for membership that gave them this responsibility.

[Scott Gesford]

Very well said Steve.

[Douglas Kniffin]

I don't think there are more than 2 or 3 names on this thread who actually participate in SCCA racing........that's kind of odd.

[John LaRue]

True Doug, but Pro Racing does not operate in a vacum. One of the primary reasons the Pro Series met with strong success out of the box was the cross over between Club and Pro. Albeit that the Pro Series is free to set their own rules, departure from the Club would not in my opinion be a desirable destination. Assuming everyone is a member it is something which they should be heard upon.

[Steve Demeter]

Well,
The CRB has recommended the inclusion of the "Elan Package" in club racing effective 3-1-08, per the just released Fastrack.

[DaveW]

Well,
The CRB has recommended the inclusion of the "Elan Package" in club racing effective 3-1-08, per the just released Fastrack.

Steve, that is not a done deal (yet). That's what this thread is all about, trying to head it off.

[Steve Demeter]

Understood.

I find it interesting that Jeremey would ask the FC community for input well after the CRB recommends it to be done.

I thought that the CRB was supposed to seek competitor input prior to recommending something for approval by the BOD.

But in this case, this step was simply skipped.

Oh well.

[FASTDAD]

I called SCCA and talked with a technical person about some information I needed. He answered my questions with some excellent knowledge. Anyhow I brought up the intake manifold situation. He informed that the situation started with Quicksilver when they refused to sell their intake. This other company then came to the SCCA and asked what they should do. They were informed that they need to present their system for approval. Now I don't have any idea about the time frame here since that was not discussed. I did ask him about the probibility of this being voted in, he said it was not likely and there were members on the board that were not for the idea in the first place. I then explained to him how this was a very poor time to take on this type of situation since there is the aluminum head to deal with, the zetec situation to deal with etc. The timing was lousy. I also expained to him I am a new member dollars are critical and in this situation it means more money to spend. I asked him to pass on these concerns. He said he would. Passing on what I found out today. Have a nice weekend people.

[DaveW]

Understood.

I find it interesting that Jeremey would ask the FC community for input well after the CRB recommends it to be done.

I thought that the CRB was supposed to seek competitor input prior to recommending something for approval by the BOD.

But in this case, this step was simply skipped.

Oh well.

They did put this out for competitor input (barely). What was distinctly NOT proper was trying to rush this through and make it effective 3/1/08 without enough time to determine all the consequences and how it should be handled if approved.

[Zebra]

On different note I started a poll on whether we should go to F-1/Montreal since Cleveland has been cancelled.

Charles Finelli