New Stohr Airbox

[WFelch]

Stohr Cars and Advanced Racing Composites have developed a new F1 style pressurized airbox assembly for our F1000 and GSXR Suzuki. A WF1 version will be available soon. The airbox portion is oven cured, pre-preg carbon fiber. The upper half is black pre-preg E-glass. The snorkle is laid up with a unique method that makes it seamless and shiny on the inside.

We have used a K&N panel filter that seals the two halves together with rubber. The box accepts the stock Suzuki trumpets and air temp sender. A reflective heat shield has been installed on the bottom, facing the exhaust. The entire assembly is as light as the Suzuki airbox (3lbs).

For more information call me at the Stohr Factory 503-775-1114 or call our distributor, Stohr Cars North America 678-648-9677.

Wayne Felch
Stohr Cars

[John Mosteller]

It looks nice but it will probably be protested and found not to be within the rules.By the rules carbon fiber is prohibited in any panels licked by the air stream including the radiator ducting and air inlet.I doubt you will be able to convince the tech stewards that the air stream doesn't lick the airbox on its way through.

[Brands]

I agree. Either carbon can be used for air licked surfaces or not. The rule is clear and specifically the air box is mentioned. As I'm close to making mine now I would like clarification. That said the Stohr unit looks like a nice piece.

[WFelch]

We can make the same part in black e-glass if someone is worried about compliance, however, the air track is all glass.

Wayne

[Matt Conrad]

We were going to do a carbon one as well but I think the rules are very clear here....to the point of even specifying the "engine air inlet" as a part which is licked by the airstream and not allowed to be carbon fiber.

We also chose to not do carbon for the cost factor as well. Our aluminum and glass piece utilizes a K&N replacement filter for the GSX-R1000 engine (readily available) and is standard on every F1000.....not an expensive option.

I'll post a picture of the one we just built for the next production car tomorrow.

Matt Conrad
Phoenix Race Works, LLC

[John Mosteller]

You can line the airbox with glass and claim the air track is all glass but that has no bearing on the rule which specifically prohibits carbon in the airbox construction.You could have 50 layers of glass and 1 layer of carbon and you would be illegal by the rules.The rest of the constructors and home builders don't need worry about your compliance with the rules.Only you and your customers need to worry.It is your customers that will get DQ'ed and your reputation as car builder that will suffer if you are branded as cheaters.

[Nicholas Belling]

with how new this class is and how just recently such few constructors’ are working so hard to bring product to the market to make this class viable here in North America for us drivers.. And here you have people knocking designs and critiquing things with such distaste. I think positive Constructive criticism in a helpful manor is far more effective.

If someone thinks it’s illegal.. Then call SCCA send them the link to the pictures and ask the head technical department for full and absolute clarification as to this piece and its viability as being legal in this class (enough said).. Why create possible false assumptions and call people cheaters with false accusations.. Do your homework and then report it in a constructive manner.

And for the life of me.. Someone please tell me how having a carbon fiber base, or for that matter an entire carbon fiber intake is going to make someone cheat.. Come on. That’s ridiculous.

I think everyone should be positive to the class, and its growth and that means to all constructors new or conversions and home brewers. I am excited for everyone involved and wish everyone the best.

I don’t think this air box even if no carbon fiber was utilized is going to be priced bad at all. Just imagine the time and energy put into designing / prototyping / testing and then finally putting the piece to production.

Wayne Felch from Stohr Cars and Advanced Racing composites designed an absolutely functional and effective solution to the air box that was needed on the car. If anything credit should be given to Wayne for his accomplishments. I am sure Wayne with 100% certainty will make sure all components on his car will be legal.. And if that means changing some of materials in build then so be it he has all the means and capabilities to do so.

Thanks Wayne for bringing new products to the market to further enhance your Stohr F1000 car.

[Brands]

'And for the life of me.. Someone please tell me how having a carbon fiber base, or for that matter an entire carbon fiber intake is going to make someone cheat.. Come on. That’s ridiculous.'

It's not cheating like having a bigger motor but if the rules say you can't use carbon for the airbox then you can't use carbon for the airbox. The Stohr unit is very nice and I would make a similar carbon airbox if it was legal. The reason I would do it would be the weight saving, but the difference between either pre-preg glass or carbon would be small, but rules are rules. I am certainly not criticising Stohr - on the contrary it's nice to see well designed and made parts.

Thanks!

[RussMcB]

It's a beautiful piece, for sure.

I don't think you can blame people for questioning it. There's obviously reason to wonder if it's within the rules or not.

Personally, I wouldn't protest it because I don't think it would widen the gap measurably between me and a competitor. I'd be glad they spent money on this rather than new tires. :-).

How many new tires could you buy for the price of this thing?

[8-Ball]

Well said Nicholas!!

Wayne, what's your anticipated time frame on this part for the WF1?

Jean-Luc Liverato

[sidney]

If there were a question about the leagality of this piece, then as the manufacturer I'd want to know if it were legal before I starting selling them on the market. I think some folks have lost sight that this class was supposed to be an effort to control some costs. The more 787s Boeing cranks out, the higher the demand for CF will be.

I'm as much in love with carbon fiber bits as the next gear head, but this seems to be the same situation as earlier this year when Stohr ran carbon endplates on a car at a regonal event. Is this just a test to see if anyone notices and questions or cares? I guess if nobody raises a doubt, then it must be legal.

I'd love to agree with Russ and say that if someone spends whatever amount this thing costs they will spend less on tires, but I have my doubts.

BTW...if anyone is doing something similar for an R1, drop me a line. We need to do something simlar for the Tatuus -- in e-glass of course.

[WFelch]

Just to clarify. The upper half, or air intake, as stated by the GCR, is made entirely of fiberglass. The lower half has one ply of carbon on the outside for cosmetic purposes. We can make the entire part from pre-preg glass if desired. There will be no difference in weight.

Jean-Luc, we will have the assembly for the WF-1 within a month.

Wayne

[Matt Conrad]

Nicholas,

I agree partially with your statement...mainly the part about building F1000 and supporting the car builders .....but unfortunately in this case I believe defending this part is probably a mute point. You leave that on the car for an SCCA event and you will be protested....I guarantee it.....especially now.

Many people on this forum had input on creating this class and one of the big factors was having a set of rules which would limit the cost of racing in this class. The issue is not whether the carbon fiber parts make any difference in performance....even though I would bet you they are lighter (and offer a competitive advantage) than an equivalent glass part.....they are illegal in this application....Period.

The rule on this item is not vague....it is very clear...

9.1.1.C.4.

Carbon fiber is prohibited in any external panels or any panels licked by the airstream (e.g., radiator ducting or engine air inlet), with the exception of impact attenuation structures. Carbon fiber may be used in internal panels and components (e.g., instrument panel, radio boxes) unless otherwise restricted.

What I think many are seeing is that the rules are already being "pushed" and we haven't even really started racing each other yet. The fear isn't whether the carbon airbox offers a performance advantage, it's "what rule will they push next". I seem to even remember someone trying to claim that the carbon front wing endplates were "a part of the front crush structure".....I hope they were joking. I have a feeling that "rules creep" won't be tolerated by many in the F1000 fold.

Matt Conrad
Phoenix Race Works, LLC

[formulasuper]

It's a beautiful piece, for sure.

I don't think you can blame people for questioning it. There's obviously reason to wonder if it's within the rules or not.

Personally, I wouldn't protest it because I don't think it would widen the gap measurably between me and a competitor. I'd be glad they spent money on this rather than new tires. :-).

How many new tires could you buy for the price of this thing?

Ya, right! As if the guys that can afford the price of one of these cars will be trying to cut cost on tires!

[RussMcB]

Deleted. Was a thread hijack. Sorry.

[carnut169]

Nice piece. I'd love to know what it would cost me to buy it with an airscoop that could be made to fit my car (in glass... geez). Please send me a PM!


Side note: The whole intent of the no CF rule was to keep costs low and prevent someone from building a lighter, stronger, stiffer car that would render all others uncompetitive. If this piece has the same weight as a glass unit, adds no stiffness and only adds wizzy for those who can afford it who is harmed? It would work the same made from glass, kevlar or CF. I think we should be able to make decisions on a case by case basis for parts like this. I understand it can be a slippery slope but remember that wizzy and cost both sell. The more cars get sold the more all of our cars are worth and the more fun we all have.

[P. Howarth]

Last time I went to Tap Plastics I saw some glass weave that was made to look like carbon. If you like the look that much, there are ways to get it.
I come from another school of thought. If it is obviously compliance, nobody will bug me.
Of course I am a Compliance Engineer dealing with regulatory agencies.

[RussMcB]

I think we should be able to make decisions on a case by case basis for parts like this.

Sean, sorry for calling you out publicly on this statement, but I'm having a hard time wondering how. My first question is, who exactly is "we" and how would they deem something as legal or not?

I think you and others did a pretty awesome job of creating rules for the class. They are not cast in stone. We can request changes if needed. But, in the here & now, I think everyone needs to abide by them. We'll just simply use the SCCA process for determining if something is legal or not. That process is either a competitor protest or SCCA Tech spot check. Competitors just need to look at possibly controversial items and decide in their own minds if they can successfully defend it's use.

For the record, I wouldn't protest this part or think the competitor was blatantly cheating if they used it.

[Brands]

I agree with Russ. Rules are rules. I'd like to make some carbon rad ducts for my car. If I made those and a carbon air box my weight saving would become signifcant. These are race cars so the 'wizzy bit' argument holds no water with me I'm afraid! I'll post a pic of my air box tonight. Sean - it may be something that could work for you.

[carnut169]

I agree with Russ. Rules are rules. I'd like to make some carbon rad ducts for my car. If I made those and a carbon air box my weight saving would become signifcant. These are race cars so the 'wizzy bit' argument holds no water with me I'm afraid! I'll post a pic of my air box tonight. Sean - it may be something that could work for you.

Thanks Ben. I'd love to see what you've been up to.

Guys I'm not suggesting that we allow people to break the rules, and in Ben's example the CF would save weight so it would be an advantage and that's not what I meant. The part listed was the same weight at the glass version so there is no advantage. I know its against the rules as written but as one of the folks who helped write the rules I'm pretty sure why we disallowed CF, thats all.

[WFelch]

As promised, our Airbox is also available in shiny black E-glass.

Wayne

[Jay N]

Way too much is being made of this. I am sure that Wayne & Lee are COMPLETELY AWARE of the rules for F1000. This airbox will be available for several different cars & classes. I am sure that they will sell plenty of carbon parts to the DSR & CSR racers & they will sell their very nice black e-glass part to the F1000 guys.

Thanks ... Jay Novak

[Rennie Clayton]

Agreed, way too much is being made of this. I like the universal lower airbox approach, with a different snorkel for each model car they produce; it's similar to the approach we've taken with the induction system on the P2007.d.

Wayne, are you guys planning to include the WF-1 version of this airbox in your Runoffs package?


Cheers,
Rennie

[Swift17]

error .. my mistake

[GoPro]

error .. my mistake

I love Wayne. Keep making rad components for our Stohr F1000s please

Whizzy bits that comply rock

Stohr F1000s rock (we just tested ours for the first time yesterday and it blasted expectations)

If anyone is at Infineon for the double regional Aug 31 - Sep 2 we'll be running our GoPro/Stohr F1000 with the new air intake (non-carbon) if anyone in the area wants to see it...or race against it :-)

Wayne, Lee and all other F1000 manufacturers and rule makers...thank you for creating all of this goodness.

See you at the track I hope! - GoPro

[martyb]

(we just tested ours for the first time yesterday and it blasted expectations)

So you were the white car with the orange accents! Our silver car was there also. We were trying to figure out a few issues, so didn't get a chance to say hello.

One of your guys asked us what temps we were seeing, and we gave him a rather high number. Shortly thereafter we found that the electric water pump had been wired backwards! After fixing that and refilling the cooling system, we were seeing temps of 205 water and 165 oil, much better!

See you at the Infineon event, we'll be there on the 30th for testing of both the Stohr and our SP car.

Marty