FE operational costs

[holmberg]

Over on the General Formula Car Discussion topic, I've been conducting a survey of operational costs for each class. Here I'm only interested in costs that differ significantly between the classes, and not, for example, entrance fees, hotel, food, etc.

Drivers from some classes have responded with data for their class, and the result is a spreadsheet in Google docs.

Here's what I have for this class. If you have changes, please reply below, and I will update the spreadsheet.

Class name: FE

Engine make: Mazda

Engine model: MZR

Displacement: 2300

Power at crank, HP: 171

Torque at crank, ft-lbs: 168

Weight with driver, lbs: 1,270

Purchase new, $: 60,000

Tires set, $: 720

Tire competitive heat cycles: 13

Engine rebuild, $: 6,350

Engine competitive hours: 80

Fuel $/gallon: 7.00

Fuel gallons/hour: 10

Brake pads set, $: 322

Brake pads hours: 17

Gearbox hours: ?
Gearbox rebuild, $: ?
Other operational costs, $:

Thanks,

Greg Holmberg

[SStadel]

Fuel $ per gallon is more like $3.25. We use recreational fuel, 91 octane with no ethanol. Something not on your spreadsheet, every FE is a potential National Champion.

[jcorsico]

Over on the General Formula Car Discussion topic, I've been conducting a survey of operational costs for each class. Here I'm only interested in costs that differ significantly between the classes, and not, for example, entrance fees, hotel, food, etc.

Drivers from some classes have responded with data for their class, and the result is a spreadsheet in Google docs.

Here's what I have for this class. If you have changes, please reply below, and I will update the spreadsheet.

Class name: FE

Engine make: Mazda

Engine model: MZR

Displacement: 2300

Power at crank, HP: 171

Torque at crank, ft-lbs: 168

Weight with driver, lbs: 1,270

Purchase new, $: 60,000

Tires set, $: 720

Tire competitive heat cycles: 13

Engine rebuild, $: 6,350

Engine competitive hours: 80

Fuel $/gallon: 7.00

Fuel gallons/hour: 10

Brake pads set, $: 322

Brake pads hours: 17

Other operational costs, $:

Thanks,

Greg Holmberg

Who gets only 17 hours out of a set of brake pads? I had the same set of pads on the car for 30 events!

[holmberg]

Who gets only 17 hours out of a set of brake pads? I had the same set of pads on the car for 30 events!

How many hours are you on track during a typical weekend?

In my scenario, I'm including a Friday practice, for a total of 8 sessions for the weekend. At 25 minutes per session, that's 3.33 hours on the track for the weekend.

If you also typically have 8 sessions per weekend, then 30 weekends would be about 100 hours on track for your one set of pads. At $322 a set, that's $11 per weekend for brake pads.

Does that sound right?

The next best class for brake pads (P1/P2) are only getting about a year (8 weekends) on a set of pads. You're getting almost four years on your pads, so that's great for FE!

[Jamesbe]

I see a lot of talk about engines going away etc.

I know for the spec series there would be rules, but if you are not running spec is this not the same 2.3L engine in every Mazda5 and many Mazda3's also built?

Just curious as an outsider. I see the engines seem to be reliable and you can find these engines for about $1200 at any junk yard around.

Just curious

[holmberg]

OK, we've discussed brake pads. What about the other items? Does anyone else care to share what they spend on tires, engines, gearbox, fuel, etc?

If you respond, please provide values for the data fields I've listed above.

Here I'm only looking at the predictable costs that vary between the classes. I'm not trying to calculate total operational cost.

Some costs are more or less the same between classes, such as towing, hotel, food, entry fee, and so on. I am ignoring those costs.

Some costs are personal choice, and not inherent in the class, such as how much you choose to spend on your tow vehicle or RV, or paying people to support you. I am ignoring those too.

Some costs, while having some correlation to the class, are unpredictable and so difficult to quantify, such as crash repairs or engine failures. I am ignoring those too.

Regarding the engine, here's the scenario: You have a fresh engine producing power that is competitive in a Majors race or the Run-offs. It produces this power for some amount of time, and then starts to fall off, and at some point is no longer competitive. You send the engine back to the builder, who does whatever is necessary for that particular engine (some classes more, some less) to make it competitive again. How much does the builder charge for this? And how many hours did the engine operate competitively before becoming non-competitive?

Thanks,


Greg

[KAMcDonald]

the engine has to come from SCCA enterprises. they do some minor work, put on dyno, if within spec it gets sealed.

cost is account $6800


it is not race prepped to high RPM, so basically a stock motor, it will last years and years... until you forget to check oil/water and blow it up

[SStadel]

We tend to measure engines in years rather than hours, but its not unusual for these engines to go 75-100 hours, which is approximately 7,500-10,000 miles. A rebuild has typically been in the $4,500 range if you haven't blown it up.

[holmberg]

In 2011 Erik Skirmants posted here that a rebuild is $6350.

Has this changed since 2011? Or does it depend on what needs replacing?

The scenario I'm interested in is that the engine is still running fine but is just worn out (not making competitive power).

So is it $6800, $6350, or $4500?

[holmberg]

Also, any ideas on gearbox hours and rebuild cost?

[SStadel]

Regarding the engine, it depends on what needs replacing. The $6,800 number was if you broke the motor. I understand you're not totally up on FE. It is hard to explain that your engine may be competitive for 7-10 YEARS. Most don't rebuild as they're competitive from day 1 through day 3650.

As far as gearboxes go, pick a number. Some seem to last a long time with regular maintenance. Some just break. It's a bit frustrating at times and yet other times you may not give it much thought. There are lots of variables, which is unusual in a spec class. Different actuators and we've had various iterations of gears. The other big variable is the driver. Some are easy on the box, others not so much. One thing that may change this is the introduction of a new gearbox after 15 seasons. The Sadev has a pretty good track record and I'm one that is looking forward to running it next year. Sadev is suggesting 6,200 miles between service or about 20 times between what I'm doing right now.

[holmberg]

OK, it appears that all the discussions in all the communities have died out, so you can find the results in the spreadsheet.

[toolo4sno]

Whoa that's a lot of good information. Thanks.

I am not sure what the FE's Spec future holds, but if a drivetrain change is needed to the 2.0L then that cost may need to be added as a wild card. Same for trans if that ends up being required. Possibly two FE rows will be needed.

[Djorgy20]

OK, it appears that all the discussions in all the communities have died out, so you can find the results in the spreadsheet.

this is great info. Is there an updated version available? We are in the process of trying to determine which series is best for us. Thank you in advance for any insight.

[holmberg]

this is great info. Is there an updated version available? We are in the process of trying to determine which series is best for us. Thank you in advance for any insight.

There is not an updated version.

You're certainly welcome to lead a discussion here on operational costs. I'd be happy to put the community's consensus in the spreadsheet.

Are you interested in FE (now defunct) or FE2?

Here are the FE2 numbers:

Tires Set

Tire Cycles

Tire cost Weekend

Engine rebuild

Engine hours

Engine cost Weekend

Fuel $/gal

Fuel gal/hr

Fuel cost Weekend

Brake pads

Brake pads Hours

Brake pads cost Weekend

Gearbox rebuild

Gearbox hours

Gearbox cost weekend

$720

13

$443

$4,500

107

$141

$9.00

10

$300

$322

100

$11

$1,000

65

$51

Much lower than any other winged purpose-built (formula or prototype) car.


Greg