Minor Rant

[Purple Frog]

Background: For a few years I was a national tech inspector. And for quite a while i raced in FC at regional, national, majors levels.

Yesterday I was at lunch with a bunch of other national stewards, Usually we talk about how it is amazing how some people are allowed on race tracks at all. Usually we expand on the most recent track incident. Or, how most drivers have never read the GCR. We never run out of fresh material at these lunches. LOL

We got to talking about how NASA has now created a "street class" for their track days, the only requirement to bring your C8 ZR1 out to crest T9 at Road Atlanta at 160+ mph is that it have license plates and DOT tires. Obviously you can run just about any car as long as it has a valid license plate. SCCA has Track Nights and TT also. So it is playing this game also.

Well, the first thing one ol' timer said was, "somebody is going to get killed". Agreeing nods all around.

But, the devil-in-me said, "Wait one darn second... they can go screaming around on the track with other cars and not have to have FIA approved rain lights, seatbelts less than 25 months old, inspected fire bottles, HANS devices, and approved roll bars !!!! say wat???".

You can show up with something like a 1991 Honda Civic Si with seat belts 34 years old and go out on the track with other cars. Oh... its "safe" because of "point-by passing". Give me a break. Those cars can hit a concrete wall harder than a 1000# formula car (because they are heavier), yet they don't have to have mandated safety stuff. I guess there is no chance they can catch on fire, so no need for fuel cells nor fire systems. And their non-FIA approved tail lights are good enough. I guess participants in track days or track nights never run out of talent, so accidents never happen, so all that darn safety equipment isn't needed.

What's my point? Something about good for the goose also being good for the gander, I'm not sure. Maybe I'm just a grouchy old curmudgeon with access to the interweb.

I'm done ranting. Back to you regularly scheduled programming.

[SteveG]

Very few HPDE events have any crashes regardless of organizer. HPDE is NOT wheel to wheel racing and most 1st, 2nd, 3rd time drivers are scared sh!tless to drive realllly fast. I've done passenger seat instructor and very few drivers get past 6/10th out on the track. There is no "red mist" because they'll lift and brake whenever they get close to another car or frighten themselves. Not to mention "driver assist" in modern performance cars.
It isn't until a driver starts TRYING TO DO wheel to wheel that they start doing stupid sh!t. How many crashes have you seen at an SCCA drivers school? I've seen infinitely more than at an HPDE.

Steve

[FVRacer21]

I just started corner working for Lime Rock and at a recent club event I think we had one or maybe 2 4-off calls.

We also have an active CRE program here in NER.

The advent of iRacing and indoor karting means many more have motorsports knowledge than before.

I would love to work with iRacing to develop a pre-school program where things like full course yellow and red flag situations could be practiced before hitting the track.

As far as the GCR, since we no longer get a printed copy each year, we need to find a way of getting this info out to drivers.

Maybe a video series to hit some points that would link to the specific sections would be good.

Another aside, I also recently instructed at a Tire Rack Street Survival course. How many street drivers have not had any instruction since they passed their driver test 40 years ago? Do they know anything about stability control, anti-lock braking, lane monitoring or any other modern driver assists, or read the current driver’s manual to know current laws?

One issue is that we “experienced” guys and gals, not not have much experience with Facebook, Instagram, Snap Chat, Signal, etc. Go back and look at the convention seminar on social media. The times they are a-changing.

ChrisZ

[Rick Kirchner]

You have a point Froggie. Several years ago I responded to a "instructors wanted" call for a day at Willow Springs. Most track days are done on the narrower, curvier, slower "Streets of Willow" facility, but this one was on "Big Willow" - the historic track and fastest road course in the country.

I soon found myself in a twin-turbo V-8 AWD Audi of some sort, with a kid hurtling into T8 at 160mph. My FC gets into that corner in the high 120's. Just a helmet and a 3-point harness. Thank god for AWD. It solves all kinds of problems.

The new owners of Willow Springs realize this and are in the process of putting in an optional chicane in the backstretch to make running a track day on Big Willow safer.

[FVRacer21]

You have a point Froggie. Several years ago I responded to a "instructors wanted" call for a day at Willow Springs. Most track days are done on the narrower, curvier, slower "Streets of Willow" facility, but this one was on "Big Willow" - the historic track and fastest road course in the country.

I soon found myself in a twin-turbo V-8 AWD Audi of some sort, with a kid hurtling into T8 at 160mph. My FC gets into that corner in the high 120's. Just a helmet and a 3-point harness. Thank god for AWD. It solves all kinds of problems.

The new owners of Willow Springs realize this and are in the process of putting in an optional chicane in the backstretch to make running a track day on Big Willow safer.

We thought we lived through the age of speed in the 60's, but really muscle cars were far and few between compared to the cars and the technological hp of today. Ironically we need to get these people on the tracks so they don't do something stupid on the streets, but we then become the baby sitters.....

ChrisZ

[10rmotor]

Frog, I get what you're saying and I don't disagree at all. It does seem that either the things the wheel to wheel racers need to "keep current" is too much, or the items the track day people need to maintain is too small. Belts having a very small window of "usefullness" for racers, but track days can use oem belts indefinitely just doesn't make sense in any world.

Your rantings are well founded, and your ranting fee will be returned!

[EYERACE]

A track night at Daytona about 4 years ago. Cars leave the grid and go around and by the yellow garages. Several of us were in the yellow garages getting ready for racing the next day as the grid went by us. Virtually all of us were muttering and shaking heads about the possible impending carnage.
I didn't see it happen.
Late that evening when I'm leaving the track..... in the open area behind the bleachers behind the horseshoe.......there's a new red mid-engine 'Vette sitting there.

Since the engine's not in front, I guess it's not to be called a 'firewall' but none the less there's a structure in front of the passenger's feet that is the limit of the passenger compartment.

I could clearly see the entire 'firewall' and part of a steering column ......that was all of what was there as to being the front of a car. No front end, no bonnet, no tires, no front fenders, no suspension, no nothing. The front of the passenger compartment was just sitting on the ground with the back of the car still there. Oops.

The next morning as I reentered the track the 'Vette was still there. In front of it were two people with an SUV and an open U-Haul trailer backed up to the half-a-vette. The trailer back edge was easily 16 to 18 inches up in the air. I didn't see ramps. Gone when I went by there during lunch.

[romoman]

I can't tell if your rant is saying that the street cars aren't safe or that SCCA requires too much (like an FIA rainlight). Both groups have existed for a really long time.

[DaveW]

I can't tell if your rant is saying that the street cars aren't safe or that SCCA requires too much (like an FIA rainlight). Both groups have existed for a really long time.

IMO, it's some of both. Having to replace belts in racecars that have maybe seen 10 hours of sun at the most is ridiculous. And letting belts be used that have been in the sun and heat for 20+ years in non-racecars isn't great either. But SCCA, etc. don't want to reduce their customer base by requiring them to be replaced.

[Steve Demeter]

Erik Skirmants once told me that the requirement to rep;ace belts based on life on race cars is silly. At the tiime he sold nylon seat belt material to OE auto manufacturers. This does not count mechanical abuse, and so forth but only sitting in the sun

[Roland V. Johnson]

The safest racing is no racing at all. People wonder why there is so little crossover from street cars to race cars. The answer is that it is not affordable for most people. SCCA insists that we spend lots of money on nonsense stuff. Tell me the last time you saw a properly installed seat belt fail. We will never get stupid rules changed because someone out there is making money off it. Last one out turn the light off.

[douglap1]

I hate throwing away good slightly used seat belts as much as anyone, but if it is the cost of seat belts and FIA rain lights that is keeping someone from going racing, then they truly shouldn't be spending money on racing in the first place.

Rather, I believe that the real financial obstacle is the cost of a dedicated non-street legal car + trailer + someplace to keep it all, and there is no getting past that in any form of racing. In addition, it seems that most of the Millennials that I know don't want to work on their cars themselves, and never even heard of Carroll Smith's books, so their alternative is arrive and drive, which counts out most of them unless they can race on daddy's money.

The alternative to racing, which most choose is the HPDE / track day thing. In our local area there are so many groups doing this (Jzilla, Chen, Turn1, HOD, Just Track It, PCA, BMWCCA, etc.) that I feel they have become our competitors for track time as well as potential entrants. In that arena, it seems that prestige comes from becoming an instructor rather than winning any trophies, and that seems to fit well with the Millennial mentality as I know it.

Unfortunately, I don't see any way to put this genie back in the bottle.

The safest racing is no racing at all. People wonder why there is so little crossover from street cars to race cars. The answer is that it is not affordable for most people. SCCA insists that we spend lots of money on nonsense stuff. Tell me the last time you saw a properly installed seat belt fail. We will never get stupid rules changed because someone out there is making money off it. Last one out turn the light off.

[DaveW]

When I started racing in 1968, most of the drivers/crew/etc. grew up fixing their own stuff, either by necessity or by the desire to do it.

Starting to race back then, one had to have or purchase something that was raceable. That usually meant either a British/Japanese/German sports car or a dedicated racecar. No one wanted to race the usual American street vehicle, which, with a few exceptions, was heavy, had sloppy handling, had lousy brakes, etc.

Now there are lots of cars one can drive to work and still go to track days, etc. It's a MUCH different scenario than what existed back then.

[Dennis McCarthy]

Very few HPDE events have any crashes regardless of organizer. HPDE is NOT wheel to wheel racing and most 1st, 2nd, 3rd time drivers are scared sh!tless to drive realllly fast. I've done passenger seat instructor and very few drivers get past 6/10th out on the track. There is no "red mist" because they'll lift and brake whenever they get close to another car or frighten themselves. Not to mention "driver assist" in modern performance cars.
It isn't until a driver starts TRYING TO DO wheel to wheel that they start doing stupid sh!t. How many crashes have you seen at an SCCA drivers school? I've seen infinitely more than at an HPDE.

Steve

There is an old saying that a wise man told me: "it's never a problem until it's a problem and then the finger pointing begins"....

[andyllc]

Every time I see this thread I think we are complaining about something Tim Minor did! ha!

[Purple Frog]

...

[grapefarmeral]

When I was skydiving, I was always told to keep my rig out of the sun (UV) It seemed to make sense. After i started racing I saw, if I remember correctly, a Lynx FV go end over end at turn 10 at Summit Point. I saw the belt stretch (I assume) with the driver's torso almost out of the cockpit. I don't know the condition of the belts or how tight he wore them, but I think of that image every time I have to buy new belts. It makes that purchase so much easier.

[Peter Olivola]

When I was skydiving, I was always told to keep my rig out of the sun (UV) It seemed to make sense. After i started racing I saw, if I remember correctly, a Lynx FV go end over end at turn 10 at Summit Point. I saw the belt stretch (I assume) with the driver's torso almost out of the cockpit. I don't know the condition of the belts or how tight he wore them, but I think of that image every time I have to buy new belts. It makes that purchase so much easier.

UV doesn't increase belt stretch. Just the opposite. It embrittles the fabric.

[CGOffroad]

I saw the belt stretch (I assume) with the driver's torso almost out of the cockpit. I don't know the condition of the belts or how tight he wore them, but I think of that image every time I have to buy new belts.

Reading the condition above, my first thought is that the shoulder belts were not installed with correct angularity with regard to drivers shoulders. There is ABSOLUTELY such a thing as mounted too high, or mounted too low. Either condition will allow upper torso movement to an extent that you do not want.

This seems like a good time to put a link to some information about mounting your cars safety hardware and its location. If for some reason this link does not work or gets changed over time, I did a search for "Schroth angle of shoulder belt" and came up with multiple links to find industry standard mounting and adjusting instructions.

https://www.hmsmotorsport.com/doc-sh...-2_2019-04.pdf

[Earley Motorsports]

It's all about $$. The more tearing around a track, the more $$ are coming in. And they wonder why the actual racing grids are getting smaller. Agree with Frog.

[grapefarmeral]

UV doesn't increase belt stretch. Just the opposite. It embrittles the fabric.

Sorry, I thought that's what I inferred