FV tire discussion

[Steve Davis]

Danny,
I THOUGHT that was what I was saying ... guess I'm not too good at wording things .. sorry. The FOCUS was on SINGLE CLASS RACING from NEFV.. CCS just added the Radials to it... and moved away from SCCA (mostly) to achieve that same goal (SCR). I have obviously been on the OUTSIDE of both groups, but following closely and in favor of both (same SCR) goals. More VEEs on track in their OWN group/sessions.
Steve

[grapefarmeral]

Danny,
I THOUGHT that was what I was saying ... guess I'm not too good at wording things .. sorry. The FOCUS was on SINGLE CLASS RACING from NEFV.. CCS just added the Radials to it... and moved away from SCCA (mostly) to achieve that same goal (SCR). I have obviously been on the OUTSIDE of both groups, but following closely and in favor of both (same SCR) goals. More VEEs on track in their OWN group/sessions.
Steve

Steve, Buy a set of radials and come out and play....

[Steve Davis]

Steve, Buy a set of radials and come out and play....

Working on it !

[BLS]

As information - a picture of the Yokohama radial mounted to a very beautiful cast aluminum wheel that looks like an original VW slot -




Just received a set today.

[pacratt]

BLS,
What is the actual tire size? When I zoom in, it pixilates too much.
Glenn

[HB280ZT]

Glenn,

The tire information is here: https://driverzcup.com/tires-wheels/
Tires: Yokohama ADVAN A052 195/50R15 110105269 ($871.96 per set)

R/--
Harry
CFR FV#77

[BLS]

BLS,
What is the actual tire size? When I zoom in, it pixilates too much.
Glenn

Glenn, as Harry responded the info is at that link...
The tires are Yokohama Advan A052, 195/50R15. There are multiple wheels now allowed. I chose the Mobelwagen that looks like the original VW slots. They are the required 5.5 inch width and correct backspacing. The picture doesn't do it justice IMO as it is quite nice looking. There are multiple brands of these on the market and I believe they are all from the same chinese factory. As I discovered a year ago when buying wheels for my Jeep, almost all cast wheels are made in China, including some that obscure their manufacturing location.
Regards,
Barry

[DannyPip]

Barry, those black Mobelwagen wheels look GOOD!!!

Where did you get them? I know that Tire Rack is now a distributor. You can get them mounted and balanced and shipped easy peasy. Then you need longer lug bolts or studs and nuts.

Just so guys know, Mobelwagen Interceptor(what Barry has above) 5 x 205 wheels use ball seat lug nuts/bolts.

The Cip1.com wheels use 60 degree taper or acorn seat nuts/bolts.

Make sure you don't mix and match.

Longer bolts or studs are DEFINITELY needed no matter WHICH aluminum wheel you use, the flanges are WAY thicker than steel.

[Steve Davis]

Barry, those black Mobelwagen wheels look GOOD!!!

Where did you get them? I know that Tire Rack is now a distributor. You can get them mounted and balanced and shipped easy peasy. Then you need longer lug bolts or studs and nuts.

Just so guys know, Mobelwagen Interceptor(what Barry has above) 5 x 205 wheels use ball seat lug nuts/bolts.

The Cip1.com wheels use 60 degree taper or acorn seat nuts/bolts.

Make sure you don't mix and match.

Longer bolts or studs are DEFINITELY needed no matter WHICH aluminum wheel you use, the flanges are WAY thicker than steel.

"Ball seat" not true. I had same concerns but finally determined that the CURRENT VERSION of the Mobelwagen 520 series wheels are actually 60 dgree ACORN attachment hardware. I'm sure that Barry would agree.
Steve, fv80

[DannyPip]

"Ball seat" not true. I had same concerns but finally determined that the CURRENT VERSION of the Mobelwagen 520 series wheels are actually 60 dgree ACORN attachment hardware. I'm sure that Barry would agree.
Steve, fv80

MMMM yeah, OK.

Check the manufacturer's website. They "might" know what they're talking about.

https://mobelwagen.com/products/520b...SABEgK1E_D_BwE

It's even highlighted in RED.

If that's not the case, somebody should tell them to change their website. The ones I have seen made by Mobelwagen over the past few years have used VW group ball seats.

[BLS]

Danny, I got mine through the local Discount Tire store after looking up the Mobelwagen distributor list. Unfortunately they could not balance them as they don't have the adapter for the spin balance machine. But they mounted them of course, and Yokohama has a dot on the tire that they say should line up with the valve stem location and apparently that helps the balance (no idea why).

They are ball seat on mine. I suspect that Steve's source are the cone type. I'm guessing they are made in the same factory both ways and Steve's are cone. The CIP1 version is a cone and from the pictures it sure looks like the same wheel.

And yes, the flange is pretty thick. They really do look nice.

[BLS]

By the way, those wheels are also available as 4.5 inch width and would beat the replacement steel wheels all to heck and back looks wise.
I think the lighter steel wheels are near the same as these cast aluminum so it would be nice if the SCCA would allow them for the slick tires...

[BLS]

Just looking, Empi has a set of studs that are 5mm (3/16") longer than the standard stud. Empi part # 70-2877-0 . Lowest price I found was J-Bugs at $10.95 per set of 5.

[DannyPip]

These rims all MAY be from the same factory, but I don't think so.

I have had Vintage 190 wheels on my 550 Spyder since 2017. The guy I bought them from (Greg at Vintage Motorcars Inc.) told me that his wheels are really Mobelwagen but re-boxed and without the logo on the wheel.

I also have the 3-fifty-6 wheels from Cip1.com on my Vee. They are NOT from the same factory, if you look at them side by side. But I could be wrong.

By the way, the 550 has 4.5" on the front and 5.5" on the back. Tires are Vredestein Sportrac5(NLA) in 185/65HR15 and 195/60HR15 respevtively. They are 300 treadwear and quite sticky for the street.

[BLS]

I started a new thread related to the tires and wheels in order to stop robbing the original

https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/sho...464#post672464

[Lucien j LeBlanc]

I would also add (in support of Rich's post) that the original goal of the NEFV group was SINGLE CLASS group/racing. CCS took that another step and made it 'more' affordable as well as SINGLE CLASS racing by adding in a spec street radial. The Radial tire savings AND the Single Class racing aspects are THE ITEMS that got this radial thing going and made it fully successful. Brian's questions of 'how do you KNOW the radials are what made it what it is .. successful.. Well.. we don't KNOW for sure which carried the most weight, but NO ONE can argue with the success of the whole program. For MY money, Single Class racing out weighs the radial cost savings, but the RISKS of racing in multi class groups (for me) vastly outweighs any other aspect. The risks of racing in groups with other race cars that are 30+ MPS faster on the straights is just more risk than I'm interested in taking. I would support the inclusion of FST as well as long as they are scored separately. but that's another discussion for another time.
Steve, FV80

On the west coast our race groups in FST and FV have diminished greatly. To race you have to contend with multi class groups where many cars are much faster on the straights and even have wings. This is one of the reasons (there are many) why I stopped running FV after many years of doing so and going to FST because we were initially grouped with Spec Racer Fords. Now with the lack of FST participation I went to FS changing my FST to having a bigger motor and taller 3.88 R&P gear box so that I could better survive out there on the track. The car now can stay with Club Fords on the straights, and I have a "dual class capable car". I am not advocating that others go to FS as I have but you should allow FST to run with the FV groups to have what is essentially similar reasonable speeds to get away from the multi class race groups which have killed our racing on the west coast. I remember 25 car fields at Willow Springs CA when I started racing SCCA with my FV. Mixing us in with Formula Fords and f440 's helped killed us off.

[Dietmar]

Barry:
Don't forget about the balancing hints on FV.ORG last April

Dietmar
Quixote Racing

Danny, I got mine through the local Discount Tire store after looking up the Mobelwagen distributor list. Unfortunately they could not balance them as they don't have the adapter for the spin balance machine. But they mounted them of course, and Yokohama has a dot on the tire that they say should line up with the valve stem location and apparently that helps the balance (no idea why).

They are ball seat on mine. I suspect that Steve's source are the cone type. I'm guessing they are made in the same factory both ways and Steve's are cone. The CIP1 version is a cone and from the pictures it sure looks like the same wheel.

And yes, the flange is pretty thick. They really do look nice.

[BLS]

Hi Dietmar,

Just re-read that last night! Thanks for the tips!

For those interested:

https://www.formulavee.org/viewtopic.php?t=5914

Good information

[nhJohn]

Steve, Buy a set of radials and come out and play....

So, we can blame you !!!
He DID buy a set and WON!!!!
Old age and treachery can always overcome youth and skill

[HB280ZT]

Any update on new tires for 2026 and beyond yet?

R/--
Harry
FV#77 CFR

[Hardingfv32]

Assuming the correct lug nut shape/angle, is there much galling of the wheel lug nut seats when using steel lug nuts?

I found some beautiful titanium lug nuts with a floating seat/mating surface. While this would eliminate seat galling, you would then be facing stud thread galling.

Brian

[nhJohn]

Any update on new tires for 2026 and beyond yet?

R/--
Harry
FV#77 CFR

Received an email from SCCA that they have a response to my CRB proposal regarding making the Challenge Cup Class a Regional - GCR Class ...
Fast Track - a survey is forthcoming for FV participants...

[nhJohn]

Assuming the correct lug nut shape/angle, is there much galling of the wheel lug nut seats when using steel lug nuts?

I found some beautiful titanium lug nuts with a floating seat/mating surface. While this would eliminate seat galling, you would then be facing stud thread galling.

Brian

Interesting solution. A link to where I can purchase a set?
Thanks

[HB280ZT]

It seems that nhjohn beat me to the punch.


So as most of you all know, the contract with Hoosier to supply the current FV tire ends this year. So, I contacted Topeka yesterday and asked them about this issue.

I was informed that they plan on sending out a survey shortly to the FV community via e-mail. That being said when this will happen I am not sure. However, if you all see the survey please make sure a link is posted here. That way people who they miss can answer the survey.


As for what they plan to ask in the survey only they know.


But I can think of a few items:
1 - keep the current C4000 series spec tire.
2 - revert back to the old C3000 series tire.
3 - go to a street tire like the Challenge Cup or DriverZ Cup use.
4 - a new slick tire.


Hope this helps some.
R/--
Harry
CFR FV#77

[grapefarmeral]

Received an email from SCCA that they have a response to my CRB proposal regarding making the Challenge Cup Class a Regional - GCR Class ...
Fast Track - a survey is forthcoming for FV participants...

While voting to make the Challenge Cup/Driverz Cup /NEFV a regional clsss with radials may sound like a good idea, I'd be cautious. With the close ties between SCCA and Hoosier I would venture a guess the Yokohama radial would be replaced with a spec Hoosier Radial. Yokohama is in business to sell tires on a global scale and Formula Vee is but a mere spec on their bottom line. Hoosier on the other hand is in business to sell race tires and from a profit standpoint, producing a tire that lasts for 3 seasons does not make economic sense. It will be interesting to see what happens and how the survey is worded.

[DannyPip]

Assuming the correct lug nut shape/angle, is there much galling of the wheel lug nut seats when using steel lug nuts?

Brian

No, not of any significance.

[DannyPip]

While voting to make the Challenge Cup/Driverz Cup /NEFV a regional class with radials may sound like a good idea, I'd be cautious. With the close ties between SCCA and Hoosier I would venture a guess the Yokohama radial would be replaced with a spec Hoosier Radial. Yokohama is in business to sell tires on a global scale and Formula Vee is but a mere spec on their bottom line. Hoosier on the other hand is in business to sell race tires and from a profit standpoint, producing a tire that lasts for 3 seasons does not make economic sense. It will be interesting to see what happens and how the survey is worded.

I disagree, Al. You are right about the money and the business aspects, just follow the money and SCCA motivation.

The whole point of CC/DC/NERC(Northeast Radial Cup) is to save money for the racer. Making it a regional class unites us all and gives us power in the huge numbers we have. And those numbers are growing in the NE. If you look at the standings after two events, there are 21 radial drivers that have points. And for a number of external reasons, there are about 6 more that should be there later this season but haven't run yet.

John F and I are VERY cognizant of what's at stake and we are being careful so as not to ruin the great programs that are already established.

One thing nobody has mentioned is that Tire Rack is a major SCCA sponsor, and they carry Yokohama. I'd say that should carry some weight as well.

I love the Yokos. I'm about 50 heat cycles in. Not one of us has any interest in a tire that doesn't last a couple seasons at least.

[DannyPip]

I personally don't want to force a switch from slicks to radial spec tires. If anyone wants to run slicks, fine by me.

We only want the ability to run the Yokohama/5.5" rim/1075 pound Challenge Cup spec from now on. We don't want to play testing games or wonder if we can run next year. We want a regional class, period.

We have proven that we can run both tires together safely and competitively. It is emphatically clear that "the sky is falling" folks were wrong.

[nhJohn]

While voting to make the Challenge Cup/Driverz Cup /NEFV a regional clsss with radials may sound like a good idea, I'd be cautious. With the close ties between SCCA and Hoosier I would venture a guess the Yokohama radial would be replaced with a spec Hoosier Radial. Yokohama is in business to sell tires on a global scale and Formula Vee is but a mere spec on their bottom line. Hoosier on the other hand is in business to sell race tires and from a profit standpoint, producing a tire that lasts for 3 seasons does not make economic sense. It will be interesting to see what happens and how the survey is worded.

Actually agree,
However - I see it this way. We have always said, if Hoosier can make an "equal tire"
- we would be fine with a proper transition time.
Equal:

• Same cost (which I doubt can happen)
• Same longevity (assuming 5 to 6 race weekends per year as a baseline) 2 to 3 seasons
  I personally run 10 to 11 weekends - your choice may vary
• combination rain - dry tire
• current Challenge Cup wheel specifications
• same size front and rears

I look at this as an opportunity for SCCA for an increase in FV's within SCCA.

At this point, there are too many of us that are ALL IN with our selection of tires and rims. If SCCA goes a different direction - so, be it. We have more than enough in an already successful series. Be nice if we are all on the same page.
John

[grapefarmeral]

I disagree, Al. You are right about the money and the business aspects, just follow the money and SCCA motivation.

The whole point of CC/DC/NERC(Northeast Radial Cup) is to save money for the racer. Making it a regional class unites us all and gives us power in the huge numbers we have. And those numbers are growing in the NE. If you look at the standings after two events, there are 21 radial drivers that have points. And for a number of external reasons, there are about 6 more that should be there later this season but haven't run yet.

John F and I are VERY cognizant of what's at stake and we are being careful so as not to ruin the great programs that are already established.

One thing nobody has mentioned is that Tire Rack is a major SCCA sponsor, and they carry Yokohama. I'd say that should carry some weight as well.

I love the Yokos. I'm about 50 heat cycles in. Not one of us has any interest in a tire that doesn't last a couple seasons at least.

I agree with everything, but the inclusion of SCCA is scary. There would be nothing preventing SCCA from mandating a Hoosier radial..

[DannyPip]

To circle back around, I spoke to Hoosier Tire East in Connecticut about a month ago.

They informed me that a) the Hoosier Radial "test" tires were unavailable for purchase and b) that SCCA extended the spec tire for 3 more years.

[Hardingfv32]

Floating seat lug nuts. Go to the store to see the selection.

Titanium Lug Wheel Nut 1/2-20 Rotating Floating Seat 60 deg HEX17 20pack set | eBay

Brian

[Hardingfv32]

Actually agree,
However - I see it this way. We have always said, if Hoosier can make an "equal tire"
- we would be fine with a proper transition time.
Equal:

• Same cost (which I doubt can happen)
• Same longevity (assuming 5 to 6 race weekends per year as a baseline) 2 to 3 seasons
  I personally run 10 to 11 weekends - your choice may vary
• combination rain - dry tire
• current Challenge Cup wheel specifications
• same size front and rears

Was at LRP and yes, slicks and radials raced togrther just fine. I say FV should be be able to use slicks or any radial (195/50, 5.5 wheel) at any race for 2026.

I was given a set of Hoosier Radials to evaluate on the West coast. Not sure what compound, but just the fact that they have 50% more thread should make a big difference in longevity. They will be running cooler helping the compound to last longer. This tire is from the rally cross line. It's stated retail price is very similar to the stated retail price of the Yoks.

We are simply not going to be able to evaluate the type of longevity you have stated in a few tests. That is why I believe the new
FV tire rule should be open to any appropriate radial/wheel for the next few seasons.

What is the downside? Those groups wanting their own specific tire can do so within this frame work and other choices can be evaluate over a more appropriate time period. Make it easier for the slick runners to make up their minds about a change.

Brian

[grapefarmeral]

To circle back around, I spoke to Hoosier Tire East in Connecticut about a month ago.

They informed me that a) the Hoosier Radial "test" tires were unavailable for purchase and b) that SCCA extended the spec tire for 3 more years.

So the tire discussion is not an issue.