New to all this but very interested have a question about the cars what are the difference between the two cars autocross and road race car
Autocross vs road racing
New to all this but very interested have a question about the cars what are the difference between the two cars autocross and road race car
Assuming we're talking Formula Ford (1600)...
C-Mod Autocross, soft compound tires and very short gearing including first gear being built into (fixed) on the layshaft. Less "required" equipment, Fire system not required, nor camera, nor Flagtronics.
Road Racing can differ from group to group, but in general you will need to add back in the fire system (camera & Flagtronics may or may not be required) and personal safety gear including arm restraints. You will need to change gearing to something appropriate for the road course you are running (thread on here "what gearing do I need for this track" is a good starting point). Tires "may" be a spec tire or you will likely want a littler harder compound than the autocross tire, but they can be run if legal for you given sanctioning body.
In short, appropriate gearing and safety equipment will generally get you on track from autocross.
Craig Butt
Just noticed this when opening the site. Have you ever heard the term comparing apples to oranges? Look at it that way. In theory they should be able to go back and forth but in reality they are for all purposes miles apart. I started in autocross in the 70's but wanted to road race and really haven't looked back.
The autocross crowd wanted extensive mods to cars to make them more equal, but then over modified for road racing. So for example a I think D mod FV has a motor that would not even be close to acceptably in road racing. Also tires and wheels again not even close.
The other thing you might want to compare, is time in the car. To even think about this you need to take cost per event and I mean ALL cost involved, and divide minutes in car for both event types. You will most likely be shocked by how much it cost per minute to autocross versus road racing.
The other thing is you can't just drop by the autocross and run the heat and leave. OH no, you virtually have to do all of the work for the organizing club because they are not able to find volunteers to help out. I was autocross chairman for 2 years in my area in the early 80's,so I kinda know what we used to do versus now.
Ed
Autocross is like hitting with a ball machine.....
In this neck of the woods, Vancouver B.C. Canada, there is a pretty massive cost to get into wheel to wheel racing. Drivers training, a car for drivers training, { if you don't have something suitable as a daily driver , I don't } Certified fire system, certified fuel cell, up to date fire suit, steep entry fees, and so on. Yes, you get more seat time.
Auto -X on the other hand needs nothing more than an up to date helmet and a very low entry fee. Fuel cell can just be a cheap, very small { each run only needs about 5 minutes of fuel } Ebay or similar , non certified unit. Less than $100.00 vs a thousand or more. If you are on a limited budget Auto - X becomes the default pretty quick.
When I retired I had big plans to get into road racing, ran Auto -X back in my 20's and wanted to finally take the step up, Cashed in all my overtime bank and took the plunge on a Lola T492, a dream car of mine for decades.
Then covid and the big price jump of everything made my once comfortable retirement income look quite a bit smaller. Then started adding up all the costs of getting out on the track for the first time. Dream went pop pretty quick..
I am hanging on to the Lola for now, you know that potential Lottery win that would make things possibe.
But preping a Lotus Seven knock off for Auto - X at the moment. It's just the only option I can afford.
Craig did a good job above, Gary Godula is the person who should reply being that he has run the same car at Solo Nationals and Road racing, but here's my point-by-point comparison.
Chassis: Same basic rules for each, but some updated safety things (for/aft bars on the main hoop) are not allowed outside of Vintage FF racing.
Suspension: Same rules. Some autocross folks take advantage of the ability to add ackerman that is not advantageous in Road Racing. Some road racers convert to wider suspension arms which is not advantageous in Autocross.
Wheels: Same.
Engine: Same.
Gearbox: Same, but it's a really small road course so like Craig said, you're going to want a very short set of gears. Usually a "fixed first" in the low 40 mph range, and top gears depend on your philosophy but I can't imagine you'd want much more than 90mph. This gives you some choice for gear overlap for driver comfort, depending on what you like as a driver.
Bodywork: Same - though no one has explored solo-specific bodywork... yet. (and I really hope no one does, one of the great parts of C-Modified vs road racing is you can buy an older road race car, and it's presumably competitive.)
Tires: As Craig said, depending on where you're running FF/F1600 in the country you might have a set of spec tire rules. Autocross has been a defacto Spec Hoosier R20 because that's the softest tire and the cantilever on the back works well for grip. But you CAN run any of the various spec tires in C-Modified/Autocross because there is no spec tire there.
Brakes: Same rules, but a compound that works at a lower temperature range is better for autocross.
Minimum Weight: 1,100 lbs for Autocross. Some other engine/spec tire class variants may be up or down a little in Road Racing.
Safety: Still have to pass the "broomstick test" in Autocross, but you do not need the H&N restraint, or the flame-resistant spec'd clothing in autocross. You do not need a fire system for autocross, and I've never seen a master switch tested but I'd suggest it anyway. You can also run an Autocross with an "M" rated helmet, and they can be one generation of Snell rating older. Your belts will need to be a racing style harness, but expiration dates are not enforced.
Logbooks are not required for autocross, the car will likely be inspected at each event for suspension condition, obvious fluid or structural issues, etc. "Annual" techs for autocross are done by region/club and signified with a sticker on the car.
General: One of the most beautiful things about autocrossing in C Modified (the F1600/FF class) is that the range of competitive chassis is VERY wide. I'd submit that for anything produced wince 1981ish, speed is way more about driver comfort than which exact chassis. Sure a late 90s car might have more mechanical grip, but the length/width is disadvantageous. An older car might not have optimum suspension geometry, but it has width advantages.
The past few years at Solo Nationals, a 1984 Van Diemen has been the car to beat, and cars getting the closest to challenge that driver include a 1994 Van Diemen, a couple of early/mid 80s Reynards, a 1998 Van Diemen and you can throw in an early 70s Dulon and a mid 80's Van Diemen. (I'm sure I'm forgetting some, but those pop to mind.) If I were shopping for a Road Race car right now, I think 1998 is about the oldest car I'd shop for. If I were looking for a Solo car, I don't think I'd rule anything 1982 - 1998 out. (Other than maybe that 1996 monoshock Van Diemen.)
Jon K - 1986 Swift DB3/Honda
I have autocrossed and road raced the same car in the same season as recent as 2023. All of the information above describes what CAN be the different. If the intent is to have fun and turn laps, there is very little to worry about. My recent autocross endeavors have been in "road race trim," other than gearing, which included running on the spec radial tire (pitch forks are starting to clank around). My first 3-4 year of autocross, including my only CM appearance at solo nationals, was done with a first gear that went to 61 MPH. You could nit pick how much slower you are than the leaders but you are still faster than those sitting on the couchOriginally Posted by Jlest
I am big proponent of autocross for getting seat time between races. The skills I learned autocrossing in CM for ~5 years easily transferred over to road racing. My local region also maintains its existence mostly off autocross participation so I show up to help keep us afloat. Last weekend I showed up to run timing but didnt run the car for logistics reasons.
A non-car related observation is that overall autocross demographics tend to be a more youthful crowd. Solo Nationals is a fun week with a small amount of driving. The all participants dinner at the Runoffs is a step up from an AARP convention. The worker parties though are another story...
Having done both, Autocross is the most fun you can have in a parking lot with your clothes on. Road racing is the most fun you can have with your clothes on.
I autocrossed for years in a street car before getting into vintage in a small bore production car and then a vintage FF (Lola T340). I've occasionally thought about sticking some low gears into the Lola and running an autocross just for fun but then I think about how little 'track' time I'd get with no wheel to wheel racing and figure it's not worth the effort.
My .02, YMMV
Autocross Vs road race.
I have done both. Autocross primarily runs street cars. All that is required is a helmet and the car has to have seat belts. Road racing specifically runs race cars. Anyone can run autocross. Road racing requires a competition license, race legal car, driving suit, current dated helmet and a lot more money. Racing rules can be found in the SCCA General Competition Rule book. (GCR) Any questions? JS
One more thought
One more thought on this subject: Consider the surface of the autocross venue before committing to setting up a formula car to run on it. I do both road racing and autocross with different dedicated cars for each type of event.
The autocross venue that we use locally is quite large, but has some abrupt bumps that would bottom out my RF01 with any reasonable road racing set-up, and I'm not sure that it would even be possible to raise the car enough to avoid this without completely screwing up the geometry. So, I continue to just use a production based street car for autocross. As always, YMMV...
autox'd seriously on an international level for 40 years while road racing for about 20 also internationally.
IF you are talking formula car....(Formula Ford) the cost of car is the same..... but as others have stated, road racing requires safety items like suit, underwear, Hans, fire system, updated belts, AMB and uses more fuel (same gas) and runs different tires.
the Softer auto-x Ford Hoosier compound is actually more expensive than the R60 road race compound. and will heat cycle out faster than wear unless you run lower speed aggressive concrete. it's actually cost effective to run dual or quad drivers in a light formula car (2 males, 2 females) to share the car cost as the tires literally heat cycle out with such short runs.
Brake pads the same. fuel the same (just a little less obviously for auto-x.
Biggest pain with auto-x. Course working. While seat time is much less, the actual amount of time spent at the track is the same and you get almost more tired and beat up working super hot days on the asphalt or chasing cones.
and of course you need a license for road racing, which means sanctioned school (up here it's close to 1K Cad), license, and physicals yearly if you are older. (my physicals cost me almost $250 Cad yearly)
Don
autocross vs road racing
Jeff hasn't chimed in about the responses but it looks like he has an F600. Not an FF. JS
Another thing that no one has mentioned is STEERING geometry. Most RR vehicles are set to steer S L O W L Y.. and MOST AX venues have at least a couple of pretty tight turns - a RR car might have to back up and re-angle themselves to get around some of them. Might add a bit to your TIME
Steve
Steve, FV80
Racing since '73 - FV since '77
Auto Cross
Hello,
As you can tell lots of people have a different opinion of Autocross and Road racing.
To me Autocross is doing a qualifying lap each time you're out there and when you get to the point of getting that really good to great lap time, it's a great feeling. I've been autocrossing for 37 years and yes you get short laps, 65 sec in the Bay Area compared to Road Racing but what has been great is the mechanical longevity to your FF, compared to Road Racing.
To me having a new course every single event is the challenge and having to get the most out of each course, is again the challenge. If you're lucky enough to have a lot of National Champions in your region to help you set your FF up and help you drive is awesome, I know this happens in Road Racing but they can't see the whole course you're driving on.
Everyone has point out the things you don't need in Autocross so that is also has an advantage when it comes to cost, tires are not your biggest cost at first, if you're lucky enough to get more then 60 run's a year, the Hoosier R20's will give you plenty of grip until the next year. The FF will cost the most and that depends on what your buying! also think about learning how the FF go's at Autocross events and courses because you can spin out and hit cones with no damage, In 10 years of driving this FF I have had 1 nose cone damage.
I have so many other things to talk about but get into an FF and have FUN!
Ben
Observation from when I simply went to but did not run at an Auto-X years ago:
A buddy of mine trailered his FF to the Auto-X site, unpacked (and later packed up) more than just the car, fueled it, changed wheels/tires, jump started it........etc. All told spent easily an hour total just getting things organized early on and also at end of day.
He turned the second fastest time of the day of all cars.
The cars that turned fastest and third fastest were a couple of street legal BMW Z4 convertibles.......they drove to and home from the event on their street tires.
It's partly about the budget when it comes to RR vs Auto-X, partly about the seat time, partly about the work one must do to compete, partly about love of what car you compete in and its level of prep, partly about fear too, partly about distance to travel to get to a venue. .....others will add other issues that impact their wish to do one or the other.
but whatever you prefer..........it's lather rinse repeat......and repeat again......and then repeat more
But isn't that the fun, pomp and circumstances in preparing your car so you to run an event, I love that. Talking to others about their cars and what they have done, or the excuses they will make because there not fast enough, I'm sure road racers do it to.
When I go to events, I've already done the fuel, brake check, started the car and the unpacking and packing is 10 mins but I do this every 2 weeks. I think it takes me longer to unpack the car at home because I'll spend an hour writing down the + and -'s for the weekend.
Road Racers and Autocrossers basically do the samething when you go to an event I'm sure. The tinkering is what I like to do..
Ben
Last edited by CM/FFdriver; 04.23.25 at 3:03 PM.
Yup
Lather rinse repeat
Difference between road race and autocross formula cars mostly is lower the gearing for parking lots and add cooling fans to the radiators for peace of mind on hot days, have ductape or gaffers tape to tape off inlets on cold days. Having a co-driver to warm tires is an advantage. Setup balance is usually in same ballpark except distances are much greater in RR. However, the slightly loose for AX fast might turn into way too loose RR. A manageable tail happy FWD VW in autocross can turn into a power on oversteer pucker fest going from the infield road course to NASCAR 1 at Charlotte. Trust me, it leaves an impression.
The CM/FF folks have spoken, now for the FM/F600 version.
For autoX Cooling fans and lower gearing is mandatory. Fans not needed for RR
For AutoX the rear wide tires on front helps the car turn in compared to the standard 6" front tires but you must stay within the 55” max width. Some cars need to have the front suspension shortened to allow this. I fit the rear tires on standard front rims and its good enough. In RR, unless it’s a stewpidly short, tight, track, 6” are standard on the front. R20 compound for autoX. R35B for road race.
2-stroke is universally seen as better for autoX than 4-stroke. RR they are about even. Pick what you like. CVT and carb tuning is key for 2-stroke, shifting ability/reliability is key for 4-stroke.
AutoX you do not need the sports car body in fact many AutoX folks run the least amount of body and chassis tubing possible. Road racing you are at a disadvantage without the sports car body unless you are on a short, tight track .
AutoX safety structure simply must meet Appendix A. Notice the less chassis structure from my previous comment. RR you must meet the GCR specs. Older autoX-only cars have an advantage. The less weight of roll bar and crash structure but needing to meet the same weight for AutoX means you can add weight where you want. Funny how nobody adds that weight up high where the RR cars have their chassis weight. AutoX weight spec is lower than the RR weight spec. Safety belts just need to look good for AutoX, RR belts must be in date. Side note for CM: A Club FF from the 5th spring chassis era will usually not work well with the sticky R20 compound tires but they will be a beautiful dream to drive on hard compound tires. You can stiffen the flexi CFF chassis to work with the R20 tires.
RR and AX cars are the same when life gets in the way of fun and they are parked in the garage/car trailer.
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