Build Thread: Reynard

[xmazdatracy]

FWIW, I bought the harbor freight work horses last year and they started off great. However after getting wet, moving the car around a but, and working on the car they became very unstable. In the end I was pretty afraid the rear horse was going to break. So I gave them away. This year I bought some super duper 1200lb per horse plastic ones from home depot. No way. The rear horse just crumbled under the weight. Returned them and got the metal ones. Right away I screwed on 2X4s on the top and then screwed on some 3/4 plywood 6" strips to the sides and they are incredibly sturdy! All that for $35 bucks.


Moving along... I was able to loosen the rod ends up a bit as each one was overly too tight. Now with no play they are just snug. However the pillow balls are still pretty tight. Is this just they way they are going to be?

And if your still reading this... with only one door to the Reynard box how do I properly set up preload on the diff AND backlash???


I found this, but it is for two doors/covers. And no I am not putting in a sequential gear box...


"The side cover preload must be set with NEW bearings and the set up for it done with NEW set up races. Saving the old ones for set up won't work. Total shimming must be done BEFORE you put the pinion back in. This is the only way you can really measure or even feel the amount of preload in there as the pinon turning will get you all messed up.

The total shim needed will be the amount to hold the diff in place plus some preload- about .008 will do you fine. BUT, the total is shifted from side to side AFTER you put the pinion back in. THIS shifting is what determines the back lash.

The pinion depth must also be set if it's new. This can only be done real well with the proper tool for it. And of course when done you'll need to check the top gear float against the carrier to be sure you didn't shift the pinion back too far (if it's new or you for some reason added shims) and the top gear is sandwhiched to the carrier. Seen those deep thrust washer pockets? That's why.

Now that you've got the total shim established, the pinion depth establishe, assemble it with the dummy races and see where the lash takes you. Keep it at about .005-.007 and you'll be ok. That's assuming it's used and that you check it in various spots. What no dial inditcator? (or set up shims, or depth tool...) then look for a tic-tic for lash rather than a klunk-klunk. Better too lose than too tight. Too lose though and you'll be tearing up the clutch in time....

Ok, when you need to get it there, simply swap the shims from side to side to achieve this result. When done put in the new races (you did change the diff bearings right?) and verify that your dummy races are not dummies. Change if needed of course. All of this requires the heating and cooling of the side covers and the measurments taken AFTER it cools. Screw up now and you'll be taking it apart again and waiting for it to cool all over again!

If the preload is right, the lash right, and the top gear float right you're in business. Turning the box by hand (both studs forward) will produce a light drag on it. Don't panic if it's a bit tight, it'll come into its own."

[xmazdatracy]

My guess is yes. Or have the bearing machined down, since is moves freely when not pressed into the rocker.
And the same as the regular MK9. Just have to reach inside for the right side, and I don't have the luxury of popping the two doors in the oven.

[xmazdatracy]

Any reason I should not used these?

https://www.taylor-race.com/product/locktab-0

[Bob Wright]

At the risk of going against the concept of this thread- if you don’t know how to set up a gearbox, have Scotty at Taylor do it. They are tricky and need to be done right. Miss a little and the cost of a trashed box gets pretty steep. Done right the first time, they can last multiple seasons.

[Charles Warner]

Fram!

[Fred Michael]

What Bob said, and just to add a little more, you have a VERY rare transmission case and if you were to do something that damages it.....

[kea]

If it is beyond your abilities (or you lack the equipment) you can always load it up and bring it here. I've done those before.

[xmazdatracy]

If it is beyond your abilities (or you lack the equipment) you can always load it up and bring it here. I've done those before.

Thanks Keith. There has been a few times I want to pack this thing up and drive it over. However not for this. This diff stuff is very well within my abilities (in fact I am VERY glad I am going through this stuff I overlooked last winter). Just was wondering what others use (safety wire or tabs). And some pointers from fellow apexers whom have done the work I am doing now. It would be nice to not have the fram posts, but this is a open forum after all. So no worries. Ill try and limit my stupid questions to a minimum.

Additionally, I updated the first post to include most of the good stuff.

[kea]

"tabs or safety wire".
I use safety wire for those ring gear bolts that are drilled, plus a hard washer for the head to load against.

[Purple Frog]

There are no Stupid Questions!

You, my friend, are for us old-timers the shining example of the "next generation". People like Keith and myself want you to be very successful.

OBTW, i thought fram was a oil filter that i don't buy.

[DaveW]

There are no Stupid Questions!

You, my friend, are for us old-timers the shining example of the "next generation". People like Keith and myself want you to be very successful.

OBTW, i thought fram was a oil filter that i don't buy.

And there are far too few people that do their own work, so I, also, applaud you for doing as much as you can yourself!

[cjahn]

Well I tried a private pm and you didn't see fit to reply so I made a second response on Apex. Still nothing. I made the effort you did not. Hell we only did 6 /90 Reynards !
I'm done.

Yup! Raced with them for years. Good people!

Cj

[cjahn]

If it is beyond your abilities (or you lack the equipment) you can always load it up and bring it here. I've done those before.

*

[xmazdatracy]

[racerdad2]

My 90 Reynard case had several at track repairs using local hardware store bits and several holes patched with apparent welds done on the car.

I took mine to Scott Church at Gear Daddies in Lakeville, Mn. to have it properly repaired and blueprinted. The case was machined, mounting locations precisely located and all new parts installed except the ring and pinion.

The transmission had suffered several "explosive detonations" over the years and it came out looking like new.

It sounds like you have the skill sets to properly set up your transmission. However, should you need a few hints, give Scott a call.

[EricP]

Just wanted to say thanks for doing this thread. I’m in a similar boat going through a new to me car (although I’m having a pro check out my Staffs box) so I’m learning from this thread. I don’t have the wherewithal to do my own thread. So, this is valuable to others... please keep it up!

[BeerBudgetRacing]

However, should you need a few hints, give Scott a call.

When I screwed up my box a couple years ago (totally my fault) I sent emails and left phone messages with 2 gearbox guys. 1 never replied. Scott emailed and called me. $200 in parts and he walked me through the hard part on a Sunday afternoon.

I haven't had any problems since, but there is no doubt in my mind that Scott is my first choice when I do.

[xmazdatracy]

What Bob said, and just to add a little more, you have a VERY rare transmission case and if you were to do something that damages it.....

This reminds me of a Shania Twain song. No worries, someone already got to it before me.









Too many projects for one little room. Yup, you guess it. I wet sand twice in between 7 coats of outdoor polyurethane. That way I don't have to use coasters.



Body work will have to wait till I am done with the wood work. I need to finish shellacking a few more bar parts before Christmas. But in the mean time I had the headers welded up at the flange to stop the gasket leak/ destruction, stripped and painted a rear rocker, and best of all as I opened up the gear box to look at my gears (only second time I have done this) I noticed that I could not move the rear end to easily. I figured it was due to the rotor/pad rub. But since I had them off for seasonal checks the harsh movement did not go away.

SO, I pulled the CVs/axels to check for adequate grease and found the one lightened CV stiff as a board. The other three OK. However I still could not turn the pinon by hand. Only if I grabbed the two output shafts and gave them a spin that would hurt my hands I could get the diff and pinion to move. So as I loosened the diff door the pinion would immediately spin freely. Thankfully I opened this up and found that the diff was put in with about .03 too much preload. It might have been due to the re-welding of the diff case. I don't know, but none the less I am fixing it. New bearings amongst other things I will be replacing. Just very mad that I keep finding so many rod ends seized. I cant belive something so simple can go bad with no wear on them... Any way, in my job we see that the trailing edge is way more important that the front. Leave the air better than you found it. And I just don't like the look of the Reynard with the back end open. So I got one of these from CROW Composites.

[DaveW]

Rod-ends seized? Are they not Teflon lined? Or are they just too tight since they were never massaged to relieve the excessive tightness usually present when they were new?

I almost always have to heat them to loosen to the proper state of no play, but the ball can be moved with your fingers. There are several threads in ApexSpeed on that subject.

[xmazdatracy]

Rod-ends seized? Are they not Teflon lined? Or are they just too tight since they were never massaged to relieve the excessive tightness usually present when they were new?

I almost always have to heat them to loosen to the proper state of no play, but the ball can be moved with your fingers. There are several threads in ApexSpeed on that subject.

Yup, been doing that to almost every one. However a couple of them are gettting worse. I fear I will have to replace them. Unless you think my drill just using fast enough. It’s a nice cordless, but I think I remember high speed being a factor.

[DaveW]

Yup, been doing that to almost every one. However a couple of them are gettting worse. I fear I will have to replace them. Unless you think my drill just using fast enough. It’s a nice cordless, but I think I remember high speed being a factor.

You can also loosen them with a heat gun if you're careful to not overheat and destroy them. I use the high setting (1500F or so) and aim at the ball while occasionally moving the ball around with a rod that fits in it. When it gets tighter, I back off the heat and cool the body with a wet rag until everything is cool. That will loosen them a bit. If it's not loose enough, I repeat until it is. Just be careful not to overdo it. It takes a bit of practice, and even then it's an iterative process.

I've even done it with a propane torch, but that's much more touchy to not screw up.

[xmazdatracy]

Just a link to where I am. I posted it on the first page, but in case someone was following along it might be easier to view here.

https://taylor-race.com/sites/default/files/MK9numbers.pdf


I am trying to take pics along the way in hopes to update the thread with some good stuff! And cautionary things to look out for.

[xmazdatracy]

Shim piles by size


Getting ready for a new home.


Another good use for frozen ground beef

[xmazdatracy]

Ended up with .008 on the right side to get .005 backlash and then .010 on the left side to get the door approx .090 off the case. Hewland asks for a bit more, but with the way this case was being used before I thought it could use a break. I took a lot of shims out. And now I can turn the gear box via the pinion gear with slight drag where as before I could not even turn it at all. Not to mention there was 0 backlash.

And no third time is not the charm. It took 4 times and a phone call to Taylor. My ring gear had some bad runout. So he said to flip it 180* on the diff and reinstall it. And sure as can be it went away. Also was told to keep the bearings under pressure when they are cooling. Jeff stated that they might move when cooling. After those two tips I was able to get the preload I wanted with the backlash still staying perfect all the way around the ring gear. Well that and two 12 hour days. Man I wish the tool box was at the back end of the car!

All in all this stuff is pretty easy, just time consuming and tedious. You could slap this stuff in and go with it, but a little love and attention (and a few below 0* days) and everything will come out like you want. I did however keep thinking of all the times I was a kid lighting magnesium ribbons when I was heating the bearings up. Did not feel right to be putting a propane torch to a magnesium case. But when they pop out they pop out.


Any way a huge thanks to daveW for the heating tip. I was killing my fingers with the drill method to loosen up the rod ends. A touch of heat and they came out perfect every time!!! Now I have suspension that can articulate.

[DaveW]

Nice to get that done and have it come out great. And, you're welcome on the rod-end loosening tip.

[xmazdatracy]

Not bondo. Faring filler with epoxy. Easy to sand. West marine has G-flex epoxy to use on body parts that are flexy so it wont crack.





And since its just the bottoms I used spray paint. For the pod and rear piece I will be taking it to a place that I used before.

[xmazdatracy]

Another successful cheese curtain crossing. Thank you HD!

Its been so cold here the inside of my garage door is frozen. I am glad I am working on the body inside!

[Steve Demeter]

At least the adult beverages stayed cold...

[xmazdatracy]

Probably not going to find one exactly like you have, most likely a Reynard part that is long since out of stock everywhere.
Pretty easy to make out of a bolt with a proper length shank, cut off the head and threads to needed length and there you go.
Or you can have the local machine shop make some up for you.

Thanks Fred! This was the winner. I forgot to mention that the pin also has to hold down the front of the radiator pod.





Also as I was going through the rear end I bought the two dies to chase the studs. There was a ton of thread locker or corrosion on them and the new hardware I bought still felt rough going on. After a few times with the die the new nuts spun on perfectly until they hit the nylon that is.

New nuts for a properly setup case. Go apexspeed!


I also had leaks at every header. The weld to the flange was on the outside but did not penetrate the flange. So all four leaked. From the inside of the car (with muffler) is sounded like a steam engine. First pic is of the old weld, second pic is of the new weld on the inside and smoothed flange as they where all warped.

[HayesCages]

You may want to put the weld bead back around the opening, really helps seal the flange.

[xmazdatracy]

You may want to put the weld bead back around the opening, really helps seal the flange.

I had a hot rod guy weld them up and that is what he said. I was shocked to pick them back up with that missing. Guess I paid him to little to put it back in after he took out the warp. They were pretty badly warped tho.

[xmazdatracy]

So looking around here timing should be about 38-40. Now is that at idle or at 4k?

I tried to move it up there at idle, but anything past 35 and the motor would start to sputter.

[DaveW]

so looking around here timing should be about 38-40. Now is that at idle or at 4k?

I tried to move it up there at idle, but anything past 35 and the motor would start to sputter.

IRRC, ~4k rpm.

[Purple Frog]

What Dave said.
Most of the distributors reach full advance by 3000 RPM.

As I remember only one engine builder (Dixon) used to weld the advance plate so that it was frozen in place, then set the engine ~38 degrees. To start it on cool mornings you had to loosen the distributor and retard it a bit or sometimes the engine would start backwards, usually tearing up the starter.

[rickb99]

..... (Dixon) used to weld the advance plate so that it was frozen in place, then set the engine ~38 degrees. To start it on cool mornings you had to loosen the distributor and retard it a bit or sometimes the engine would start backwards, usually tearing up the starter.

One of ours had this unique feature, I'm pretty sure it was the '90 Reynard whcih is the one we raced most often. Never ever had a problem starting it cold with a short splash of gas sprayed in the carb. We didn't even know the advance was locked until we checked the advance one day and discovered it. Never had a problem with cold or hot starting. Once warmed up in the morning, no extra gas spray was needed.

[HayesCages]

Same on our old Mustang racer, locked the advance at full and ran it that way for about 15 years.

[xmazdatracy]

Well if you guys confirm this is welded in place I am confident (with both the block and head painted grey (not burgundy)) that this is a Dixon block, head, and distributor. Also I then am confident I ran at about 25* timing last year. I put two arrows towards what I think are the Dixon welds.

Thanks for the help guys!

[John Green]

One of ours had this unique feature, I'm pretty sure it was the '90 Reynard whcih is the one we raced most often. Never ever had a problem starting it cold with a short splash of gas sprayed in the carb. We didn't even know the advance was locked until we checked the advance one day and discovered it. Never had a problem with cold or hot starting. Once warmed up in the morning, no extra gas spray was needed.

Great idea until you spin in a race and can't restart......

[Purple Frog]

Put the rotor back on.
grab the rotor.
Try to rotate it.
If not "locked" it will rotate about 30 degrees against a sprung resistance. And return back on its own power.
If locked, it won't rotate.

IMHO I'd get one that isn't locked.

[HayesCages]

Locking the dist. at full advance was mentioned in one of those do this or that to win books. I'd just do whatever you want. Either way seems to work okay. IF an advance spring broke sometime then doing the full advance thing would make sense but I've never seen nor heard of one ever breaking.