Ray GR2000 FF1600 for sale

[Barry Pomfret]

I have a complete Ray FF1600 for sale, car has undergone a recent rebuild and comes complete with a Glenn Searle engine and good LD200 box. The chassis is the ex Alex Daniellsson Swedish championship winning car. It is currently fitted with Koni dampers and Weller steel rims however I also have several sets of Madin alloy rims available.
There are a huge number of spares including a recent rejigged chassis, a fresh spare Searle engine, complete set of bodywork, adaptor/bell housing, nose/crash box, radiators, rear uprights, wishbones, push rods, clutch slave cylinder, cv joints etc.
Car is located in the UK but can be shipped to the States.

Price for complete car including engine and gearbox $13,300

Other spares price to be negotiated.

Contact email is mail@barrypomfret.co.uk or phone +44 1908 370112

[DeepThought]

Hi Barry,

Good looking car, hate to see your posting go unanswered. I will "break the seal" and ask a couple of questions.

I am 6'2" and 185lb ( 13 stone 3 lb in Brit !) 32" inseam, any chance that I fit?

Total time on motor, time since last freshen and what was done?

Do you have contacts in the shipping world, approx cost etc?

I am ex-pat living in Phoenix in a very healthy FF group. As for as I know there are no "Rays", maybe time for one!

Regards ... Dave K (aka. the Pomme)

[Barry Pomfret]

Hi Barry,

Good looking car, hate to see your posting go unanswered. I will "break the seal" and ask a couple of questions.

I am 6'2" and 185lb ( 13 stone 3 lb in Brit !) 32" inseam, any chance that I fit?

Total time on motor, time since last freshen and what was done?

Do you have contacts in the shipping world, approx cost etc?

I am ex-pat living in Phoenix in a very healthy FF group. As for as I know there are no "Rays", maybe time for one!

Regards ... Dave K (aka. the Pomme)

Dave, the Ray is much smaller than current Van Diemens around your hips, it would be a tight fit at 13 stone, I'll measure up the cockpit and post the size, height would not be a problem. Engine in the car was rebuilt before it went in and has done 3 test days, one qualifying session and three races. The spare engine has not been run after it was rebuilt.
I am currently trying to get hold of Ken Moore who is an agent for shipping race cars around, he sends quite a lot to the States, I've had a call from a guy in Phoenix who is interested, so trying to get a quote for him.

[Barry Pomfret]

Just spoken to Ken, to ship the car and all the spares etc to Phoenix would be between $1,500 and $2,000. I guess we would be able to get it shipped for the lower of those two figures.

[TimH]

Wow.

It costs that much just to ship across our country...

[mwizard]

Very nice car. Like the color a lot. Good luck with sale.
Mark

[Rick Kean]

enuf coffee

[protoform]

I thought that was Cheep for shipping. Even if it was a slow boat.

[racerdad2]

Shipping across the pond for less than $2k ? That be a bargain !

[provamo]

nice looking ride but one would still have to pay for "shipping" within the states

[SEComposites]

It cost me less that $1k to ship from the UK delivered to my work address here in Georgia. It was a chassis kit rather than a complete car but $2k door to door sounds about right. Don't forget about import duties.

[racerdad2]

This just keeps getting better !

[provamo]

N I C E !

[Barry Pomfret]

Car still available, would sell as a roller incl. gearbox for $11,000

[Martin Hepworth]

I was at Silverstone last weekend for the Walter Hayes Trophy meeting and saw this car in the Paddock, looked really nice a very clean car.

Guess I should add I've got no connection with Barry and I've never met him!

$2000 is what I've been quoted to ship a car from the US, that's sharing a 40ft Container. Just got to find the right car.

[Barry Pomfret]

I was at Silverstone last weekend for the Walter Hayes Trophy meeting and saw this car in the Paddock, looked really nice a very clean car.

Guess I should add I've got no connection with Barry and I've never met him!

$2000 is what I've been quoted to ship a car from the US, that's sharing a 40ft Container. Just got to find the right car.

Thanks for the kind words Martin, it was my car up at the Walter Hayes meeting. Cars still for sale either complete or as a roller.
Anybody like to make a sensible offer for the car and all the spares?

[Barry Pomfret]

Bump back up to the top, still available.

[Barry Pomfret]

Deposit taken. Car and spares will be heading over to a forum member from Arizona in a few days time.

[Kazis31]

Ray is very good chassis.
I used to own 92 Ray FF 1600 and loved it .
Ray is one of front runners in British FF series.
Good luck with that baby.

[marshall9]

Deposit taken. Car and spares will be heading over to a forum member from Arizona in a few days time.

[Brian C in Az]

I have a complete Ray FF1600 for sale, car has undergone a recent rebuild and comes complete with a Glenn Searle engine and good LD200 box. The chassis is the ex Alex Daniellsson Swedish championship winning car. It is currently fitted with Koni dampers and Weller steel rims however I also have several sets of Madin alloy rims available.
There are a huge number of spares including a recent rejigged chassis, a fresh spare Searle engine, complete set of bodywork, adaptor/bell housing, nose/crash box, radiators, rear uprights, wishbones, push rods, clutch slave cylinder, cv joints etc.
Car is located in the UK but can be shipped to the States.
phone +44 1908 370112

The ad stated that the car had recently had been rebuilt. The car had several large areas with rust. The body panels were cracked, over 40% of the floor pan rivets were ground off from on off track incident, the fire bottle is 7 years past the service due date, The spare body work is not complete (the ad stated it was complete). The "complete set of body work" is missing at least 1/4 of key components, including the engine air scoop, front side panels, and a 24" x 14" hole is cut out of the side of the engine cover… (First picture kept loading upside down)
When I emailed the seller about each item, he stated tha the engine cover is from a different model car, he said in an email after I received the car, that I should have inquired more specifically. If the ad says "recent rebuild," how does that need further inquiry about the condition of the floor pan, body panels, and rust?
He also said that the spare body is from a completely different car and needs mods and that I should have inquired about the specifics of the "complete spare body", Really????
Barry is a crook. Regardless of how he may have acted in the past in other transactions, there are major discrepancies with what he stated compared to what I received. There are other glaring out right lies regarding the shipping costs that were quoted; including emails that Barry claimed that he was quoting the broker as saying the agent in Houston would only charge $100, but the bill was almost $2000 and the broker said that he never told Barry the fee would only be $100. I believe that based upon the whole series of lies in his emails, that particular lie was to expediate shipping the car. Once he received his payment, what recourse would I have about his lies and the shipping costs?

[SEComposites]

Unfortunately there are a lot of dishonest people in the sport on both sides of the Atlantic. I bought a complete chassis kit from the UK that was anything but complete last year. I even had a run in with an Apexspeeder trying to pull a fast one recently. Buyer beware - there are unscrupulous people out there sadly.

[Smittty]

Hi folks, again I'd like to see a "volunteer verifier" organisation formed that would seek out these vendors at the request of an absentee potential buyer to take pics, inspect - even in real time, we do have the Net you know, to help ferret out issues in advance. Sure, couldn't solve it all, but might help......just a thought, your ideas?

[mikehinkle]

I'm not siding with anyone but there is a saying that comes to mind.
Expect what you INSPECT.
Recently rebuilt obviously had different meanings to the buyer and seller.
If you do not receive pictures of all parts of the car including spares then don't expect everything to be brand new. What I consider good body work you might throw in the dumpster.
On the other hand the seller should have stated the body work was not complete/needed work and that the current body work was not perfect.
Pictures can be deceitful.

[dc]

Caveat emptor, caveat venditor.

[marshall9]

I took an afternoon off of work to go see this car when it arrived at our shop to share BrianC's big moment in unveiling it. The only thing about this car even resembling the above pictures put up in the ad, it the fact that it is red. It needs a LOT of work.

Caveat emptor, I get it. I think that Brian, like me, is a little naïve in believing and wanting to believe that most everyone in our racing and apex community are fair and honest.

I did learn some new meanings to some words:

Spare bodywork: Not necessarily from the same kind or model of car that you are buying.

Rejigged frame; A frame that has recently been bronze welded by someone horrible at their craft to repair significant crash damage.

Complete bodywork: Bodywork that has cracks completely through it.

Barry Pomfret, karma is an evil thing.....hopefully, we'll have an opportunity one day at the track to have an ale and talk about this transaction.

[Brad Smith]

I had a similar thing happen to me buying a car long distance from this site (it is still a great site!). As in my case, the photos were obviously taken well before the sale. I will never buy a car again without flying to see it. Air travel is easy and cheap, even to Europe. I briefly met Mr Pomfret many years ago and cannot say I was impressed.
Take some time to fix the car and you will know that you have a good one in the end. Better check the internals on the engine too! It is still a cool looking car!

[TimH]

I had a similar thing happen to me buying a car long distance from this site (it is still a great site!)

We have enough folks from everywhere on this forum that there's a pretty fair chance you can get a neutral party to look the car over without having to fly out yourself. Just not in the UK...

[Brad Smith]

After buying several Formula fords over the years, I would rather see it for myself. I have had poor, fair and fantastic sellers over the years. The best was actually from England, but I was there to see the car on track and purchased it after the race.
Sorry that Brian found a poor one.

[jmm2130]

I'm based in the UK and can confirm Barry Pomfret has been around the racing scene for a long time and I must admit to being quite surprised by this, although I don't know him personally. My experience of buying and selling single seaters is that one mans interpretation of what is "rebuilt" or "ready to race" can be significantly different from anothers.......In any event if anyone is thinking of buying anything in the UK don't hesitate to PM me as there's every chance the vendor will be traceable through a few phone calls and I will do my best to assist - its a small Island we live on over here!

[Barry Pomfret]

After reading the comments on here I thought it would be helpful if I put my side of the story before the internet forum "wolf pack" completely assassinate me. Firstly I would like to apologise to Brian if the car wasn't exactly as he expected, it is a 15yr old car that has been raced and there will be a certain amount of wear and tear and work needed but it is basically sound and will be a quick car. At no point have I deliberately tried to deceive Brian or hide anything, perhaps the bodywork description was not clear it needed work on it however if Brian had asked for more details or photographs I would have been happy to send them. I am rather upset with some of the comments like "crook" as I have been involved in motorsport for over forty years and never had anything like this thrown at me previously. The car was photographed for US Customs one week before it left for the States and Brian had copies of the pictures.
I would like to give you all some background to the car and why it was sold. When I stopped racing I started a small race hire team, I was also working as a school teacher as my main career and the race team was really just a hobby. I owned and ran a Van Diemen Zetec, we had several wins and one of our drivers won a National Championship with the car. The Ray came up for sale and I bought that as I enjoyed racing Kents and it was still a thriving market in the UK. Ray Cars are quite a small concern, really a one man band with Gavin Ray at the helm. It is difficult to get spares, particularly for the older cars and I heard about a car which was crashed at Mallory circuit.The car was a Formula Ford but had been fitted with a Zetec engine, hence the bodywork has the rear section cut out. My intention was to get this filled in and use it, the two front side panels Brian refers to were damaged when the front wishbones hit them. We made up to new aluminium panels to replace these and I assumed these two small panels were loaded into the container however there were five people loading the container and they may have not been put in.
The crashed car had been stripped down and I bought most of the available spares and the damaged chassis which was then sent off for repair, I think you will find the method of repair is correct for this space frame chassis, the fabricator has forty years experience of working on space frames and is also F1 tig welder so he would have chosen correctly . The car was raced succesfully a couple of times and then I was diagnosed with a brain tumour and had to stop working.
After recovering from my operation I stopped running the race team and the cars sat in the workshop. I then decided to sell all my cars and equipment and hence the Ray came up for sale.
I would like to clarify some of the issues regarding the car, the car was raced and the kerbs in the UK take out the rivets , we generally re rivet the floor pans about twice a season but it depends on the driver, this is normal wear and tear on a car and generally regarded as routine maintenance.If I had been asked if the floor pan needs redoing I would have said yes.! The extinguisher is still ok for club racing in the UK, the RAC Blue book does not have service schedules, it only has to be in the green window zone. The bodywork has cracks on the sidepods where they flex, it is not new bodywork it is 15yrs old, to remove the cracks it needs to be rubbed down , filled and resprayed. we have done this regularly on race cars.
Brian asked me to get quotes for the shipping, I spent many hours talking to various shipping companies to help him out and eventually sent through about 5 different quotes, I recommended the second cheapest company as they ship all the Van Diemen/Firman cars to the States and are familiar with handling the paperwork and customs etc. I asked the shipping company what happens when the car arrives in the States and was told Brian would need an agent out there to deal with the customs paperwork to release the car and it would cost about $100. I passed on this info to Brian and said when you've arranged the shipping and the agent let me know and I'll get the car and spares ready to go.I had no contact with the agent in the States or even know who Brian was using. A date was agreed for the container to arrive, on that day Brian sent somebody from the UK to inspect the car and ensure we loaded up all the spares. At this point in time I still had not got any money from Brian in my account but the "crook" that I am still allowed the car to be loaded into the sealed container and taken.
The car and spares were transported to the docks and set sail for the States. A few days later I contacted Brian and told him I still didn't have my money and could he do a trace on it, he informed me the money had been sent and my bank had it, they denied they had the money. I asked the shipping company if they could hold the container at the docks until I was paid and this was agreed. Brian became very angry about this and said my bank had the money! Eventually the boat arrived, unlike my money, and I understand Brian's agents in the States took the container to their warehouse and stored it hence he had quite a lot of charges to pay, I was told however by the shipping company there wouldn't be storage charges and I forwarded a copy of that email to Brian.
With regards to the missing money it all eventually came down to a mistake by his bank in Apache Junction, a clerk put the wrong IBAN numbers on the wire transfer and it ended up in Barclays Capita who then had to send it back to the States for it to be sent correctly, it then arrived the following day. I then emailed the shipping company to tell them the money had arrived and they released the container. All this resulted in me spending £100 in international phone calls and four visits to Barclays trying to sort out Chase banks incompetence at sending a simple wire transfer.
I guess all of those issues have increased Brian's frustration and I am sorry his bank let him down. It appears he expected a pristine ,concours car for his money. He bought the car and spares at a very cheap price, considerably less than what it was advertised and I also gave him some extra spares that were not advertised such as a fuel tank and starter motor and suspension brackets free of charge. I also gave him approx £100 worth of ratchet straps which I used to anchor the car and spares into the container and didn't charge him for. If I am such a dishonest crook why would I have done that?
With regards to Brad's comment perhaps Brad you could PM me with some idea of when we met and the context as the only Canadian I am aware that have met in the last 15 years is Ben our data engineer on the Lanan race team,I am interested to know if you have mixed me up with someone else.
Once again I am sorry if Brian is disappointed with the car, I did not deliberately hide anything or try to deceive a fellow racer.

[Brian C in Az]

You replied in your last emails that I should have inquired better of the condition of the car.

You posted pictures of the car entered in a car show. People do not enter rusted and cracked cars in car shows.

You listed a "complete spare body". Where are the missing parts?
In your email you stated that I should have inquired better about the spare body…. What part of "compete" do you not understand? I know what it means here in the USA. Complete means all parts necessary are included.

You are a liar and a crook.

In my previos mention of your dishonesty regarding the shipping, I did not mention nor include the $1100 of storage fees that I incurred due to your incompetence. Yes, the bank did not have the right suffix on the Swift code, but you did not provide it. When I sent you the confirmation, I asked you to check the numbers. You did not. So while it is easy and convenient to blame Chase, I asked you to confirm the routing information. You said that you would pay half of the additional storage fees. But as soon as you had you money, you then changed your mind and said "It wasn't my fault, ask Chase to pay it." Actually it was your fault. Had you not wanted 3 weeks to say,"Oh, the suffix on the Swift code is for the commercial branch." we could have corrected that BEFORE the ship landed in Houston. They money was in you account BEFORE the container cleared customs. You made the broker wait 3 days before releasing the container and that is why there were the additional fees. There was no reason for you to delay the release. Unless you knew that you had been dishonest and wanted to pull the money out of the bank before I saw the condition of the car and the fact that the spare body was not complete nor correct for the car.

You are a liar and a crook.

Price has nothing to do with your dishonesty. We agreed to a price based upon the original advertisement. You are a liar and a crook.

The ad stated that the car had recently been rebuilt. Why are 25% of the bolts missing? Who rebuilds a car with rusted parts? Who uses mismatched bolts on their components? Hex head on this link, allen head on the matching link, philips heads here mixed with hex heads there.

Recently rebuilt? why are 40% of the floor pan rivets scrapped off? See the pics that I posted.

You are a liar and a thief.

Why is the complete spare body not complete? Why is the spare body for a different car? Where are the missing parts to make it a complete spare body? You are a liar and a thief.

[dc]

Ok, the personal attacks and character assaults can cease now. This has gone quite far enough. This is NOT in the spirit of transaction feedback, just unfiltered attacks. No more.