2000 Dallara-Mugen F300

[Canadian Formula 3 Championship]

Most affordable Dallara for the performance. Has the traditional H-Gate shifter, nothing too overly-complicated of a machine, just jump in and drive. Well constructed, well maintained, and cheap!

Flat-Shift Paddle System; clutch-less upshifts with your foot flat to the floor, with you having to put back pressure on the gearlever while you upshift the paddle which is always located on the left-side of the steering column. A very fun gadget to play with while driving...Flat Out!

Eibach Dampers
AP Brakes and Carbon Clutch
E.F.I Engine Management System
H-Gate with Flat-Shift Paddle System
Engine has a special Lightweight Top Plate
Comes with a Spare Nose and 3 Sets of black BBS wheels
Engine and Gearbox has only 6 hours of run time on them
2 more full race seasons on engine and gearbox before rebuild

For Sale at $40,000 OBO

Reduced to $36,500 OBO

Reduced to $33,800 OBO

Reduced to $29,999 OBO

[Canadian Formula 3 Championship]

As you can see from the photos the owner tapes up areas where he doesn't want dust to get into the engine internals, the car is well-maintained, push-button race-ready, very clean, and cared for.

[Westroc]

There is IMO a wide difference in pricing between cars yet in terms of comparison to FC which is apples to oranges I know there isn't a large multiple of difference. For example the Martini is 20 and some others are a 100. Can you shed some light? Yes I know there are year differences. But is it engine cost, data system, spares. Further description would be appreciated.

[prestonparke]

F3 cars vary greatly on cost due to
1 year construction
2 engines used
3 dampers dash wiring loom utilised
4 what needs rebuilt ie out of time engine/ car rebuild

i own 3 Dallara F3 cars all for sale
397 Opel engine with F3 fI system but street car engine to suit UK racing rules
399/01 being built with engine as above
1 305-7 roller options on engine fitting kit and brakes damper options

[Canadian Formula 3 Championship]

but, alot of the factors are what you just mentioned actually, ofcourse the year, and yes the data acquisition systems are far more complex and extensive now than 15 years ago. There are alot more sensors and meters recording all types of data coming from the car. A brand new Bosch data system with every possible component is a little more than $25,000.

Spares another one you mentioned plays a big role. Here Dallara keeps a full stock of parts dating back to 1999 and even further to 1994 in a more limited capacity. Please refer to my Formula 3 Parts for Life!... posting under the General Discussion area in this Formula 3 section.

So the Dallara becomes a machine which is more in desirable because of the readily available parts, and hence some higher prices. If you were to purchase an old Ralt or Martini you would need to rely more heavily on the spare parts package that comes with your purchase, and then after have the manufacturers or a 3rd-party specially construct those extra parts that you need.

Performance is the other issue. Formula 3 is a highly-competitive class and if you are more than 1 second off the pace then no team wants to run that chassis and the Dallara has proven time and time again to be the fastest. But, understand that because an SLC or Lola for instance is slower than a Dallara the gap is only 1 or 2 seconds maximum a lap.

The SLC or Lola is still a tremendous race car, but to the competitive world of Formula 3 that gap makes it obsolete. As to the gentlemen racer having fun on a Sunday afternoon, he wouldn't notice this difference and a Lola would feel plenty fast. Also most of us don't have the ability to push these cars to the absolute limit, therefore a fast gentlemen in a Lola, Martini or whichever Formula 3 make could handily outpace another gentlemen in a Dallara.

[Canadian Formula 3 Championship]

Reduced to $36,500 from a very-motivated seller of a very-clean car!

[Canadian Formula 3 Championship]

Probably the cleanest F300 model series that I've posted yet here on ApexSpeed or that I've seen yet anywhere else. Price reduced to $33,800 from an owner whose a first-class chap. He kept the car in immaculate condition and raced it only twice this past summer. These F300 cars are very quick and eligible for a Formula 3 Championship entry.

[blackhole]

is this car in canada? or all the cars overseas?

[Canadian Formula 3 Championship]

this Formula 3 car and all of them are located abroad, mostly in Europe but some are also in Brazil.

my own car, (http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53924) is located in Montreal.

[Canadian Formula 3 Championship]

...more pictures of this wonderfully-clean and race-ready F300 hopefully going to a local Canadian racer and Apexer next month. Call me, let's get this car over here...she's ready, are you?

[Canadian Formula 3 Championship]

For $29,999 USD or less here is another great example of the ever-popular, Championship-winning 1999 - 2001 Dallara F399 - F301 model line. This car is very, very nice, and one of the cleanest F3 chassis' advertised on here. These F399 - F301 are usually priced around $35,000 to $40,000 levels depending upon condition and spares packages.

But for these F3 cars to be cracking under the $30,000 level is an incredible price really, and it has never been seen before. It just goes to show how desperate some F3 car owners are out there in needing liquidity. The lucky few can find some very good bargains in a depressed Europe, deals that can't be replicated here in North America.

The only thing that you have to absorb on the front end is the $3,500 ocean freight container cost. But considering that you won't need an engine rebuild on various Formula 3 cars until their 3,000 miles - 6,000 miles rebuild interval, figure to yourself that you are paying for half of your yearly engine rebuild costs now, and then you won't have to worry about your F3 engine rebuild for what; 3, 4, or 5 years down the road depending upon how many miles you run every year.

[buckleupmotorsports]

Never shipped a container to USA I am sure it is fraught with regulations and paperwork. Do you take care of all the paperwork and who covers the VAT seller or buyer? I believe GB adds 15% to sale.

[prestonparke]

few pointers here
1 F3 engines do NOT do 3-6000 miles between rebuilds even FFord motors cannot do that
2 UK VAT is not applied on export from the EU

3 what you must do now for USA is employ an experienced import broker and get an import licence thing sorted out there are very strict rules now thanks to 9/11 failure to deal with the correct procedure will result in container being returned to the UK
The USA have created a sht and totally unnecesary system for race car import but if you follow the rules it will be easy however it might be simpler to go in thru canadaland and tow it down
do your OWN research

[Brett Lane]

I bought a new FE in 2004- All the Van Diemen/RFR etc. cars are imported from the UK. I think I paid $1200 then for a car in a crate that cost around $25,000 for all the custom/import fees on this end. I think the whole car delivered(still in the crate) was close to $30,000 to Florida.

Check with an FE CSR, and he can tell you exactly what it costs to import a car from the UK....

[Canadian Formula 3 Championship]

Formula 3 engines absolutely last 3,000 - 6,000 miles, there is no question about that and I would bet my kidneys on it to anyone whom doesn't believe so. The reliability of these engines are that good, yes that strong, no doubt about it.

Anyone can call up any of the engine rebuilders to verify, and if interested I will forward the contact names of the Technical Directors at these rebuilders; (NBE, Piedrafita, Spiess, HWA, Sodemo, FPT, Tomei, Tom's, Mugen) to ask them yourselves.

I posted this snapshot of an engine proposal that I received from HWA on another thread. Also on another thread was a similar logistics discussion. It is not conducive to ship the car first to Canada and then to the states cause you would have an 11.1% combined sales and import duty for Quebec / Canada and it's only 2.5% for the United States.

It's a $3,500 cost for your own 20 ft ocean freight container shipping out of any western European country to the east coast of North America for door-to-door delivery service. You don't need an import license, your 3PL logistics provider has one and that is the service that they provide.

Don't crate the car, the cost to build one isn't worth it, just tie down the car's wheels with tie down straps and the container is all yours to put your spare parts in. It's not difficult to import a car, and there is no VAT applied because you are shipping the car out of Europe.

[Rick Ross]

[FONT=Verdana]Formula 3 engines absolutely last 3,000 - 6,000 miles, there is no question about that and I would bet my kidneys on it to anyone whom doesn't believe so. The reliability of these engines are that good, yes that strong, no doubt about it.[/FONT]

What restrictor size (and HP levels) allow for 3000 to 6000 mile rebuild intervals? What size restrictor do you plan to require for your Canadian series?

[Canadian Formula 3 Championship]

F3 regulations declare a 26 mm diameter tubing, but some Championships don't run under these FIA rules and use a larger air restrictor as in the Brazilian or Spanish F3 Championship for instance.

Most engine makes use the same 26 mm requirement, but not all of them so you'll get different horsepower levels, (ranging from 200 hp - 235 hp) and (4,000 kms - 10,000 kms) rebuild intervals.

The FPT-tuned Fiat uses a 31 mm air restrictor to produce 235 hp for their latest EVO engine with a rebuild at 5,000 kms or 3,100 mls. But the Piedrafita-tuned Toyota which also uses a 31 mm tubing produces 220 hp for a 10,000 kms or 6,200 mls rebuild interval.

The Sodemo-tuned Renault with 26 mm tube will produce 210 hp for a 3,000 kms rebuild interval, but if you use Peugeot valve springs you can get another 1,000 kms. So a 4,000 kms or 2,500 mls overhaul is the lowest rebuild interval that you will find with any Formula 3 engine.

The Spiess-tuned Opel OPC Challenge engine is rated around the same 215 hp level and with a 10,000 kms or 6,200 mls rebuild interval. But the Opel Family II engine is older and puts out 210 hp with rebuild intervals at 4,500 kms or 2,800 mls with a 26 mm air restrictor.

The HWA-tuned Mercedes-Benz engine with a 30 mm tube will produce 225 hp at a 10,000 kms or 6,200 mls rebuild. The Neil Brown-tuned Honda with 26 mm will produce 215 hp with a 5,000 kms or 3,100 mls rebuild interval...etc., etc., etc...

So they are all very different and the only way for us to equalize the field is by allowing the older, weaker engines a larger air restrictor to produce the same horsepower level as one of the newer engines. And adding ballast to the faster, recent chassis' to equalize their generations.

[Canadian Formula 3 Championship]

.

[prestonparke]

Formula 3 engines absolutely last 3,000 - 6,000 miles, there is no question about that and I would bet my kidneys on it to anyone whom doesn't believe so. The reliability of these engines are that good, yes that strong, no doubt about it.

Please send me a pair of kidneys
Why do the British F3 engines have 3 rebuilds in 1 season?
Ok they do the highest amount of testing and racing compared to other F3 c/ships
the Spanish will be the next highest but there is no one in Uk doing 3-6000 miles on a motor before it is rebuilt 3000 is probably the limit after that pray to God it doesnt let go.
After all these are race motors not road car engines ok they have specially made internals but they are running 5-6500 rpm all the time not 2-4000 like road car engine so the parts are going to wear out.

The OPC engine was conceived to run longer miles between rebuilds and with a larger restrictor along the same ideals as the Toyota for the Spanish F3 series but they are not truck engines.
Even FFord kent zetec duratec Pinto race engines do not run more than 1500-2000 before needing a full strip rebuild
the more rpm used the quicker parts wear out

[Canadian Formula 3 Championship]

These jpeg snapshots attached above are from an HWA engine proposal to myself and a Fiat FPT promotion deck. So what?...they are lying to me.

Look...I'm not going to sit here and argue with ya' so if you don't believe me then call up all these guys and ask them yourself.

Nissan Motorsport International Limited - Shoichi Miyatani - President
Mugen Euro Co., Limited - Colin Whittamore - General Manager
Neil Brown Engineering Ltd - Gavin Harrison - General Manager
Volkswagen Motorsport GmbH - Jost Capito - Motorsports Director
SODEMO Moteurs - Olivier Volpi - Engineering and Design Manager
Piedrafita Sport S.L. - Jose Aracil - President
HWA AG - Gerhard Ungar - CEO
Fiat Powertrain Technologies S.p.A. - Eugenio Bizzocchi - Engine Design and Development Manager

You can Google their headquarters, and ask for them yourself, I'm not going to give out their direct emails or phone numbers and extensions.

For anyone else whom is serious about buying a Formula 3 car and want to verify engine reliability numbers, I will gladly host a direct conference call with any of these aforementioned names.

[racerdad2]

I'm saving my pennies for a carbon fiber tub car !@@! They seem to be very safe, indeed. Engine life ? Really not an issue... Keep the revs down a bit and they live a long time... Pretty much holds true for any engine my Chevy small blocks I built in my garage did just fine up to 7500 rpm... 8,000, Not so much... Unless you like the convenience of looking into the engine thru the gapping hole in the block carved out by the connecting rod

[Canadian Formula 3 Championship]

This car was purchased new from Dallara by Paul Stewart Racing in 2000 to compete in the British Formula 3 Championship with both Narain Karthikeyan and Tomas Scheckter driving.

When FoMoCo purchased Stewart Grand Prix in 1999, their junior Paul Stewart Formula 3 team was absorbed a year later. Ford changed both team names to Jaguar Racing and Jaguar Junior F3 Team.

Jaguar ran the F3 operation for 1 year in the Championship then sold this car to the Irish team Sweeney Racing which ran the car for the next 2 years with their driver Ernesto Viso.

[historicf2]

Formula 3 engines absolutely last 3,000 - 6,000 miles, there is no question about that and I would bet my kidneys on it to anyone whom doesn't believe so. The reliability of these engines are that good, yes that strong, no doubt about it.

Please send me a pair of kidneys
Why do the British F3 engines have 3 rebuilds in 1 season?
Ok they do the highest amount of testing and racing compared to other F3 c/ships
the Spanish will be the next highest but there is no one in Uk doing 3-6000 miles on a motor before it is rebuilt 3000 is probably the limit after that pray to God it doesnt let go.
After all these are race motors not road car engines ok they have specially made internals but they are running 5-6500 rpm all the time not 2-4000 like road car engine so the parts are going to wear out.

The OPC engine was conceived to run longer miles between rebuilds and with a larger restrictor along the same ideals as the Toyota for the Spanish F3 series but they are not truck engines.
Even FFord kent zetec duratec Pinto race engines do not run more than 1500-2000 before needing a full strip rebuild
the more rpm used the quicker parts wear out

He is absolutely correct. The true F3 engines in full International Spec should be done every 2000 miles (20 hours). You could chance 3000 miles but as Preston says you will be racing with everything crossed.

The Spanish engine and the FPT engine are different animals. They are designed for long life and are more like a tuned road engine. Power from revs. They run much lower static compression ratio than the F3 engines proper and will go a much longer time. However they have a much different level and characteristic of torque.

The OPC, the Mugen National Spec are an effort to make an F3 engine last longer by not making the valve gear so light. They will be 5 bhp down on the International cars but last at least another 1000 miles.

Believe me Preston and I have run enough F3 engines and had them let go over the years to talk from experience.

[Canadian Formula 3 Championship]

There are 2 different classes of F3 engines provided by any F3 engine manufacturer; "International Class" and "National Class" and/or "Competition" and "Spec" for another used moniker.

Engine lease programs from HWA and VW are very, very expensive, $50,000 a year for replaceable engines with included rebuilds. You commit to 2 or 3 years before you have the ownership right to buy the engine at the end of the lease term.

During the lease these "International" or "Competition" engines are tweaked to the moon because that is the British Formula 3 Championship and the F3 Euro Series, the 2 most competitive Formula 3 Series' globally.

Big European race teams don't care about costs as much as they do about winning. So they prefer a highly-tweaked engine with more horsepower and a shorter life span than a "National Class" or "Spec" engine with less horsepower and double the rebuild interval.

Again, here is more proof with this HWA proposal showing the 2 differences in the engine classes. Here HWA offers 4,000 km rebuild and a 10,000 km rebuild depending upon it's performance Class.

Since we, (our Series) are not, and never will be at a British or European F3 level we will always opt for the more reliable and less horsepower engine choice. These F3 cars are so fast on just the regular "Spec" engines that most guys here won't be able to drive them to their limit anyways.

Again, for anyone whom wants absolute clarification on this, and don't believe what I say, and don't believe what these Brits say, then go ahead and call up the references that I gave you above and ask them yourselves. Get the answers straight from the horse's mouth so-to-speak.

[Canadian Formula 3 Championship]

Sweeney Racing sold this car to Alan Docking Racing, (ADR) in 2004 which painted it in it's now current yellow/black livery upon the insistence of the driver's father to symbolize the Jordan Grand Prix Formula 1 team for which he claimed to have had a strong relationship with and a testing deal.

This turned out to be a farce, and when dad was late on a payment for the rented race seat, ADR mechanic 'Fraz' was told not to let the race driver and son Adam Langley-Kahn to get into the race car at 2 minutes before Friday's Practice Session at Spa-Francorchamps, Belgium. Daddy quickly broke out his checkbook to finally write out the check for his son Adam to race that weekend.

Adam went out to play, didn't place well as usual and when everyone got back to the race factory on Monday, dad canceled the payment and his check bounced to the moon. The car only had done 6 races out of 12 in that 2004 year and that's its British F3 Championship history. Make note of the old green paint on the top cover of the sidepod being sanded and prepped for the new paint livery.

[Canadian Formula 3 Championship]

more pictures of this beautiful F300, amazing that you can buy one of these cars for under $30,000

[Canadian Formula 3 Championship]

The car was then sold to gentleman privateer racer John Goate in 2005 with a new NBE engine replacement in November of that year with an engine block (#E014) that came out of the Brazilian Formula 3 Championship, (or F3 Sudamericana). The car was maintained by Deane Performance.

The late Goate ran it minimally in the Enterprise Edge F3 Club Championship which turned into the MSVR F3 Cup where fellow Brit Winston Graham bought the car in 2011 and ran it for only 1 year.

[Jasonrmbell]

Can this Car be Ran in F2000?

[Jasonrmbell]

I bought a new FE in 2004- All the Van Diemen/RFR etc. cars are imported from the UK. I think I paid $1200 then for a car in a crate that cost around $25,000 for all the custom/import fees on this end. I think the whole car delivered(still in the crate) was close to $30,000 to Florida.

Check with an FE CSR, and he can tell you exactly what it costs to import a car from the UK....

Can you send me information on your purchase I am interested in getting the same car you have. I am looking at F2000 I live in Tampa FL so the shipping should be close. Is there a web site were you went when you purchased.

[Canadian Formula 3 Championship]

I did not purchase this car, someone else here on Apex did. I have a 2005 Dallara F305/07 which is also listed in this Classifieds section. I don't know if you can run these cars in the F2000 Series?

I would assume no. All of these cars are sourced in Europe, the best website is here on ApexSpeed ofcourse! Peruse through the F3 Classifieds for other comparably-priced F300 generation cars.

[poleman]

hello

is this car now sold ??

[prestonparke]

no its not
i know the owner spoke with him last thursday or friday

[Canadian Formula 3 Championship]

This car actually has been Sold for the past few weeks now, it just was never formally announced yet out of the respect and wishes of the new Canadian owner. The car is coming to Ontario to run in the Formula Libre class and a future Canadian Formula 3 Championship team. Great stuff to see!

[Canadian Formula 3 Championship]

no its not
i know the owner spoke with him last thursday or friday

I just got off the phone with the previous owner Winston Graham and I brought up your name and asked him if he knew you and he said "no"

I repeated and spelled your name twice to make sure and he said he had never heard of you before So why would you say that when you don't know him?

[prestonparke]

i wouldnt loose sleep over it
i can phone him right now but i dont need to cos i know that finally some of your money arrived bit more left to arrive !
however it is probably better u talk to me direct than with others u might get somewhere

[Canadian Formula 3 Championship]

Kevan McLurg...I didn't buy the car, a guy living west of Toronto did. And I prefer not to talk with you at all as you like to complain about all forms of formula racing in your home market.

I will also recommend for no one here to purchase your overpriced used parts as your questionable business methods, vulgar mannerisms, and poor reputation in the UK market precedes you.

[El Guapo]

Wow.....I'm sure glad nobody on this thread is talking about me.

El Guapo

[dc]

I'm going to close and lock this thread up right here, because I'm really getting tired of the mud-slinging.

We will be instituting a new policy here right now that prohibits Classified listings for cars and parts that you do not specifically own. No more. If the car is not yours and not in your immediate possession, then don't bother listing it here for sale on ApexSpeed.com.