CRB Letter #8803

[R. Pare]

I always wonder why there wasnt a class where you have a FC take the wings off put in a restrictor plate, set up the suspension and go racing. The next weekend you want to race FC convert it back and race. Prob dumb idea huh?

Try it sometime yourself, and you may find out why it never got past the "Let's see what happens" stage.

A car could be designed and developed around that engine package, but would end up be very different than the current FC designs.

[thunderracing91]

Try it sometime yourself, and you may find out why it never got past the "Let's see what happens" stage.

A car could be designed and developed around that engine package, but would end up be very different than the current FC designs.

Nope! Im broke!

[John Robinson II]

Try it sometime yourself, and you may find out why it never got past the "Let's see what happens" stage.

A car could be designed and developed around that engine package, but would end up be very different than the current FC designs.

You mean like my db-6 with a Honda, wait, didn't that live a former life as a FC?

[R. Pare]

Did you ever thy to run it with the 2-liter Pinto engine, but without the wings?

[Purple Frog]

JR2,

About a year ago i did some research. It is feasable to build a 152 hp Honda Fit without messing with the HRD FFit bottom end. It's all about cams, ECU maps, etc. So... it was sort of feasable to run your DB6 in FF and FC without a motor swap.

Unfortunately the torque curve when compared to the Pinto/Zetec standard, does not match up. The Fit, because of lower rotating mass has lass torque. To compensate, the Fit would have to make more lower rev HP than the zetec to balance the lack of torque. That would be done by controlling when the VTEC kicks in. Feasable, yes.

While a nice concept, (same car, same engine, two classes, one winged, one not) we determined quickly it was not ready for SCCA.

[R. Pare]

If a lighter 2L engine were available (something that weighs about the same as the Honda or the Kent), then it could be done relatively easily. The problem with the big Pinto was the rearward weight without having a wing to balance it out. Reminiscent of what the Brits went through when they first adopted the Zetec into FF - oversteering nightmares. Took a completely new chassis to get the balance right - you just could not adapt a Kent chassis and make it drivable and competitive.

[thunderracing91]

JR2,

About a year ago i did some research. It is feasable to build a 152 hp Honda Fit without messing with the HRD FFit bottom end. It's all about cams, ECU maps, etc. So... it was sort of feasable to run your DB6 in FF and FC without a motor swap.

Unfortunately the torque curve when compared to the Pinto/Zetec standard, does not match up. The Fit, because of lower rotating mass has lass torque. To compensate, the Fit would have to make more lower rev HP than the zetec to balance the lack of torque. That would be done by controlling when the VTEC kicks in. Feasable, yes.

While a nice concept, (same car, same engine, two classes, one winged, one not) we determined quickly it was not ready for SCCA.

I was thinking if FF didnt exist you could take the current FC platform, remove the wings, choke it down to 125HP or so, change shock setup and race it. Not modify another class or Honda to make things work. Anyways this is off topic and would never happen..............

[thunderracing91]

If a lighter 2L engine were available (something that weighs about the same as the Honda or the Kent), then it could be done relatively easily. The problem with the big Pinto was the rearward weight without having a wing to balance it out. Reminiscent of what the Brits went through when they first adopted the Zetec into FF - oversteering nightmares. Took a completely new chassis to get the balance right - you just could not adapt a Kent chassis and make it drivable and competitive.

So yer saying put wings on the Honda cars and retune the ECU and go racing?......
..JK another class that wouldnt take off......

[R. Pare]

You are close - an FF with another 30 or HP would be a blast!

[John Robinson II]

Did you ever thy to run it with the 2-liter Pinto engine, but without the wings?

No, but I have run the Honda without the restrictor, so like 143hp. No longer could you just mash the pedal and it was really nice to run down the straight with the FEs and FCs and not have to come from several car lengths back to beat them to the corner. And it only happened once, because by the second corner, they were not even close.... Should have changed gearing, and if Honda would loosen up on the damn rev limiter it would have been even better.

[Swift17]

Car values have improved. Kent engine values may be down, but that means more buying power for those continuing to run kents. Continuing to complain about the Honda presence is not helping the class in any way and decreasing the value of the kent equipment. Let it go.

Now, if we could get the tire costs under control with a spec tire rule for club racing, people could go racing in FF without bankrupting themselves. I tried to get a spec tire rule in place 2 years ago, it was shot down by those who said it would compromise the performance of the cars. The Pro series has shown that this was not the case.

Imagine if you had an FF that had an engine that lasts for years and tires that last for several races. Then you would really have a class that was attractive to both people thinking of joining the class and those already in it.

What is that spec tire? Is it a rock hard R60 that still costs $1000/set, or is a tire that is close to a R35 that costs $500???

.... since we are having a "open" discussion ......

[TedV]

.... since we are having a "open" discussion ......

Every time I read one of these threads I tell myself "Don't do it stupid...don't post." But, here I am being stupid.

I know that feeling

What is that spec tire? Is it a rock hard R60 that still costs $1000/set, or is a tire that is close to a R35 that costs $500??? Simply, there was nothing to vote on other than a "spec tire". Could have been made of concrete for all I knew.

Your tire guy charges you $350 to mount and ballance a set??? By memory the R60a this year is around $640 or $650. I could make some phone calls to find out. I'm drawing a blank on the price of the Pro series tires. Dang brain fade.....

I don't think Hoosier or Goodyear can have much impact on the weight of the con rods tho. Rubber makes for crappy connecting rods. They would cycle out pretty quick, and I've seen what a tire can do to bodywork when it lets go. not pretty.

[captdigi]

I've got an idea.... Eat one less Quater Pounder cheeseburger and stop pissing and moaning over 15 GRAMS...
For those of you that are unaware of what 15 grams is, dump out the contents of 15 Sweet and Low packets in your hand. WHEW!! Thats Heavy!!
I personally have no problem with this change as long as the the parts are available and durable. If I lose to an opponent because my rods are 15 grams heavier... Shame on ME!
Cheers!

Ps I know this is a late post... just got around to reading the banter.

[sauce_racer]

I can tell everyone on here that when I was on the front row next to one of the Honda's at a race down in Texas, I made a great start and was leading us into turn one. When just like that it looks like I lift to get on the apron (I DID NOT LIFT) when really he just put his foot down to start racing.



This 15 grams issue, is the least of my worries when I remember that the Honda is going to out motor me on a straight away.


Meg