2012 US Grand Prix - In Austin TX?!

[Jim Garry]

Here's an online comment made from one of the articles:

I think this is Bernie's way to leverage what he really wants: a better deal somewhere else. His is patient; he can wait until this fails for lack of long term financing. He has absolutely no stake (or money) in this succeeding or failing. In the meantime, pressure is put on those who will build/develop a track in NY or LA, where Bernie really wants to be.

[Ted Idlof]

Here's an online comment made from one of the articles: I think this is Bernie's way to leverage what he really wants: a better deal somewhere else. His is patient; he can wait until this fails for lack of long term financing. He has absolutely no stake (or money) in this succeeding or failing. In the meantime, pressure is put on those who will build/develop a track in NY or LA, where Bernie really wants to be.

Yeah, this is what we've been talking about. Bernie's MO is so well documented as to be transparent. I can't believe how reticent people are to say the obvious. well, maybe by Windtunnel on Sunday, Dave or Varsha will lay it out there and we can all return to normal.

Ain't being skeptical, just realistic.

[marc sproule]

If there has to be some kind of performance bond posted or an equity account created?

It would be no surprise to me that BEcclestone et. al. would have to have something like that in place so that if it didn't happen they would always have a fallback position, i.e. $$$

As someone who has a bit of experience in the construction world I cannot for a moment believe that a world class circuit, with all the amenities can be constructed in under two years.

Call me skeptical if you want.

And call me cynical when I see this as just a play to further slap us Americans in the face. Indy. USF1.

If the F1 powers-that-be wanted to have a race on US soil it would seem that the easiest way to get it would be to somehow put together the right people with the right $ to shell out to have a race at Indy.

The facility is there, it's familiar to the F1 circus and then only a date would be needed.

The link to the story about the circuit... http://www.bergrennenring.com/track.htm...raises a few more issues in my mind.

And then there's the guy from Monticello.....from the Statesman piece...."If Bernie comes back to the table," Straus said, "Monticello is ready."

I think the Mark Twain quote Jim Garry uses is most apropos.

The sound you hear is me shaking my head.

[dereklola]

- http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns22285.html -

Do they know something or just speculation?
Location shown includes Thunderhill Raceway - just north of San Marcos Municipal Airport - 15/20 miles S of Austin. Sure don't look hilly!

[Allen_W]

Earlier in this thread I made a crack about the F1 set having barbecue at Kreuz's in Lockhart as though it were the most far-fetched of ideas.

I stand corrected:

Hellmund, managing partner of Austin-based Full Throttle Productions, also revealed how he managed to keep the project one of the best-kept secrets in Austin and the motorsport world. Although Hellmund took German engineers to business lunches at public places such as Kreuz Market in Lockhart and the Salt Lick, the engineers and almost everyone else he worked with signed nondisclosure agreements.

If you've never been to Lockhart, the idea of the Formula 1 crowd chowing down there is more surreal than I can explain.

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/...be-715886.html

The local boosters (mostly) believe in the coming of Formula 1 to Austin.

[bluedogok]

As someone who has a bit of experience in the construction world I cannot for a moment believe that a world class circuit, with all the amenities can be constructed in under two years.

Call me skeptical if you want.

The permitting process here is a fraction of the time that it is in California having done projects in Ontario, Sacramento and Napa/Sonoma areas. Doing the project in a county only jurisdiction usually leads to much less review and supposedly they have already had some sort of preliminary review with TCEQ and whatever county (Bastrop is the county of the two sites that I know are rumored and Bastrop County has been pretty aggressive in recruiting business in recent years) then more than likely it would be pretty easy compared to trying to get it through Travis County and/or the City of Austin. Most of the "tree huggers" around here seem to forget about the land east of I-35 so a serious protest movement is not as likely as it would be heading west of Austin.

It could be done provided they are as far along as they have been saying in the press the past few days, throw enough money at it and it can get built quickly. Seems like a typical fast track job...unfortunately for some of us in the business (I am in architecture) "fast track" is the normal pace of building around here for everything.

If the F1 powers-that-be wanted to have a race on US soil it would seem that the easiest way to get it would be to somehow put together the right people with the right $ to shell out to have a race at Indy.

The facility is there, it's familiar to the F1 circus and then only a date would be needed.

From what I understand those in control now at IMS have no desire for F1 to return to Indy.

The link to the story about the circuit... http://www.bergrennenring.com/track.htm...raises a few more issues in my mind.

That group has absolutely nothing to do with this proposal.

- http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns22285.html -

Do they know something or just speculation?
Location shown includes Thunderhill Raceway - just north of San Marcos Municipal Airport - 15/20 miles S of Austin. Sure don't look hilly!

That is not one of the two rumored sites for the F1 track, that is Hellmund's existing facility.

I will say that I am "cautiously optimistic" about it happening.

[Ted Idlof]

...The permitting process here is a fraction of the time that it is in California having done projects in Ontario, Sacramento and Napa/Sonoma areas. Doing the project in a county only jurisdiction usually leads to much less review and supposedly they have already had some sort of preliminary review with TCEQ and whatever county (Bastrop is the county of the two sites that I know are rumored and Bastrop County has been pretty aggressive in recruiting business in recent years) then more than likely it would be pretty easy compared to trying to get it through Travis County and/or the City of Austin. Most of the "tree huggers" around here seem to forget about the land east of I-35 so a serious protest movement is not as likely as it would be heading west of Austin.

It could be done provided they are as far along as they have been saying in the press the past few days, throw enough money at it and it can get built quickly. Seems like a typical fast track job...unfortunately for some of us in the business (I am in architecture) "fast track" is the normal pace of building around here for everything.....

OK, thanks for that. Sounds like you've got some solid experience to base some hope on. And I'll be buying you dinner if I'm there for the 2012 race.

But just to be clear, have they killed all the lawyers yet?

[bluedogok]

OK, thanks for that. Sounds like you've got some solid experience to base some hope on. And I'll be buying you dinner if I'm there for the 2012 race.

But just to be clear, have they killed all the lawyers yet?

Nope, this being the state capital they take care of they own and they seem to multiply like cockroaches....

[Bill Steele]

The permitting process here is a fraction of the time that it is in California ....

It better be a pretty small fraction, it took a year to get permits to remodel my house here in SF. But I guess there won't be any good old boy debating the "vertical elements" in the front elevation....

I make it about 1 in 7.

[bluedogok]

It better be a pretty small fraction, it took a year to get permits to remodel my house here in SF. But I guess there won't be any good old boy debating the "vertical elements" in the front elevation....

I make it about 1 in 7.

For small (corporate) interior finish-outs there is a "walk-thru" process at CoA where you can get your permit that day. For most projects the process is about a month, now site development does take awhile longer, I have seen it happen in as little as two months or as long as a year depending upon opposition. The main thing is when/if the track gets built the rumored locations are outside of the City of Austin and in rural Bastrop County where the process is much more friendly and less hoops to jump through.

[Stan Clayton]

I hope this isn't a harbinger of things to come...

Austin?

[Jim Garry]

All the way through that article I kept thinking, "get to the point, get to the point". The guy likes to listen to himself.

[Ted Idlof]

Lawrence may be long winded but he makes a plausible point: Bernie makes deals that make money in a variety of ways; including collecting penalty clauses when miracles are not delivered. He's not vested in the Austin miracle. This is the underlying assumption or fact that feeds our skepticism of the race happening in 2012 or anytime soon thereafter. Bummer.

[Jim Garry]

The Austin USGP is looking iffy, not that it was ever strong:

US GP ‘Just A Project’ Says Todt
http://formula-one.speedtv.com/artic...ent-jean-todt/

[DMac]

The Austin USGP is looking iffy, not that it was ever strong:

US GP ‘Just A Project’ Says Todt
http://formula-one.speedtv.com/artic...ent-jean-todt/

I saw the interview with Todt on Speed the other night. He seemed less than interested in "American" racing (i.e. NASCAR). What he did not say verbally about the USGP, you could see in his reactions.

Just throwing this out there - USGP at Daytona?

[FastOne]

I saw the interview with Todt on Speed the other night. He seemed less than interested in "American" racing (i.e. NASCAR). What he did not say verbally about the USGP, you could see in his reactions.
Just throwing this out there - USGP at Daytona?

There will be NO F1 at Austin in 2012. Bernie is being Bernie - Money, Money,Money. He will simply collect several millions from the escrow and walk away, stating the facility is insufficient or some other senseless excuse. My bet is that there will be one in the USA, eventually, but only because Bernie must have his money and the USA is the best market - after what he did to Indy, however, I have no respect for him or his antics, and would not doubt for a minute that he will "rape" as many here as he can. The man is doing nothing good for the sport.

[Ted Idlof]

There will be NO F1 at Austin in 2012. Bernie is being Bernie - Money, Money,Money. He will simply collect several millions from the escrow and walk away, stating the facility is insufficient or some other senseless excuse.

Agreed. the 2012 ain't happening, but not because of Bernie. Plenty of other real world complications will delay the track opening and Bernie simply knows that and played the promoters for a sucker with the penalty clauses. Like taking candy from a baby.

And meanwhile, he continues to plant idea seeds around the country. With Chris Polk in the game, albeit on Bernie's side, you know there's other places and ideas besides Austin. So, who knows where Bernie will land when the music stops??? the game goes on.

[Dick R.]

So when Bernie finally dies (pick your favorite cause of death) who takes over?

Also, is the promoter really that stupid or is he also scamming?

Dick

[D.T. Benner]

HE thinks so! As for what happens to F1 after he's gone? He's to vain to even care as HE won't be affected one way or another.

[Dick R.]

HE thinks so! As for what happens to F1 after he's gone? He's to vain to even care as HE won't be affected one way or another.

I didn't mean is there a succession plan since I agree Bernie doesn't care. I mean who/what will be in control when he is gone? His "estate"?

Dick

[Bill Steele]

When Bernie leaves, someone selected by CVC Capital will take over. And you thought Bernie was ruthless? Bernie is a pussycat compared to a private equity type.

[John Duke]

I am not saying that there aren't some good reasons to be skeptical but... with respect to the land not being defined...check back, this is precisely what Bruton Smith did to increase his leverage for tax abatements when he bought the land for Texas Motorspeedway. As far as I can tell, having been there a few times, it did get done and I believe it was open less than two years from the announcement.

So, I will remain somewhat skeptical and stay in good company with those here on the site but, it can get done and there are some other reasons for it to get done, vis a vis, development of the Texas Corridor (part of the NAFTA push).

Now, as far as Todt goes...he is French. That ought to just about be enough reason to have at least some doubt about what he thinks can or can't be done in the USofA.

Bernie will make money either way...on that one can be sure.

[jdp526]

Here is the most recent Austin newspaper article in the F1 track project:
http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrob...=oid%3A1050799

[bluedogok]

Interview with Tavo Hellmund in GPWeek Magazine, page 22. He says the announcement on location should be this week.

[jdp526]

"Work on the 2012 site of Austin's United States Grand Prix will begin in December, it has emerged.

The local KVUE News quoted Texas Comptroller Susan Combs, who attended the recent British Grand Prix, as saying groundbreaking at the unconfirmed site is set for late this year with a completion date set for June 2012.

And confirmation of the actual site for the track, somewhere close to Bergstrom Airport, is reportedly imminently due.

And amid rumours that talks for a race in New York are underway, Combs said she would be "very surprised" if there was more than one American Grand Prix in 2012.

"This site is the US Grand Prix, and it's in Austin, Texas," she is quoted by the Austin American Statesman."

[Ted Idlof]

"This site is the US Grand Prix, and it's in Austin, Texas," she is quoted by the Austin American Statesman."

Like she would know !!! ROFLMAO

[ric baribeault]

sounds like something that would go on in California....not Texas

[TimW]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85604

And there is a website now, so we know its legit:
http://www.formula1UnitedStates.com/

For which the 'join today for updates' link is non-functional...(at least in Safari)

[rickjohnson356]

the link seems to work when using IE

[Marshall Mauney]

And there is a website now, so we know its legit:
http://www.formula1UnitedStates.com/

Not to be too negative, but there was (still is, apparently) a website for this one also.....

http://www.usgpe.com/

....and we all know how that turned out......

[TimW]

Not to be too negative, but there was (still is, apparently) a website for this one also.....

http://www.usgpe.com/

....and we all know how that turned out......

fa·ce·tious/fəˈsēSHəs/ Adjective: Treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor; flippant.

[Matt King]

fa·ce·tious/fəˈsēSHəs/ Adjective: Treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor; flippant.

You didn't even need bait for that one!

[John Duke]

In the interest of making this thread a bit more interesting while reducing some of the negative vibe, I am willing to take bets with those who don't think this will happen, #1 in 2012 or #2 at all.

Someone earlier mentioned odds of 1 in 7 so I will start by taking those odds on position #2 and arbitrarily put odds a bit greater for openers on position #1 at 12:1. So, for those who are interested in a little side bet, I will post $1 into a designated Paypal account in the keeping of my attorney for every $7 or $12 (depending on which position you choose) that you are willing to put in. In fact, since I am feeling confident that this will happen after todays announcement, I will lower the wager from 7:1 to 5:1 and from 12:1 to 10:1.

The winner will receive the losers wager for position 1 on the day after the race date in 2012 (TBA) or in lieu of a scheduled date, on the day after the final race date of the 2012 season.

Since I am not yet wealthy as George Soros, I will reserve the right to limit my side of the bet to an as yet unspecified amount and will not take any bets after January 1, 2011 or the announcement of the 2012 schedule, whichever comes first.

So, whose feeling lucky now? Who REALLY believes this cannot be done in Texas? Enough bovine feces, let's let our money do the talking and flex our jaws on other topics.

[Marshall Mauney]

fa·ce·tious/fəˈsēSHəs/ Adjective: Treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor; flippant.

Hey! I resemble that remark!

[Mark_Silverberg]

If you read all the details in the Austin paper some interesting facts emerge. The site was originally acquired to be developed as a high density subdivision. This development was opposed by by neighboring property owners in the Elroy.

The original owners of the land have remained as "investors" in the F1 track project and at least one additional parcel of land has been acquired - probably more. The point is that Tavo said he has "secured" the land but I am not sure how much money has actually changed hands.

The reason that water and sewer permits for the track are not an issue is because the original land owners had already started the process for the subdivision.

To date very little risk has been taken on by anyone. Tavo does not have much money in it. The original land owners can say "well, you did not want a subdivision - now would your prefer a race track?" They are not breaking ground until December which would give the neighborhood group and the initial parcel property owners time to come up with an alternate development proposal.

Red McCombs investment can easily be justified if advertising and sponsorship is administered through Clear Channel Communications and promotional elements are sourced to Live Nation - in both of which he is a person with a present or previous financial interest. Live Nation has previous motorsports promotion experience through monster jam, supercross and arena cross. Given the potential link to Clear Channel / Live Nation I would expect the facility to also be set up to easily accomodate concerts and other entertainment events.

As I said at the beginning - Tavo was just the front man. If things would have gone south quickly McCombs could have just walked away.

I do not know if they will actually get the track built - but it is going to make for a very interesting 24 months from a business standpoint.

[edschubert]

http://www.news8austin.com/content/h...-travis-county

[Allen_W]

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=41723

[dereklola]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86304

[VehDyn]

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlin...0/9/11198.html

This link lets you clink on the 3D rendering to see some of the elevation. For soem reason, the autosport link gave me red x's. Damn our network guy.

[Dennis Valet]

I really like Turn 2 - downhill sweepers are always cool. Turn 10 drops off right after the apex which is sweet. T16-18 complex looks crazy aero dependent with decreasing radius which should be cool. T19 & 20 combo is cool because one is downhill and one is uphill.


The climb to T1 looks pretty intense, but the climb seems to stop or slow down significantly right when they get to braking/turn in. Wonder how that will affect the cars.