High tea will be served promptly at 4pm in my atrium. Earl grey, crumpets and some delightful watercress finger sandwhiches will be served. Be sure to wear you're fanciest summer hats and finest white gloves.Originally Posted by Doug Carter
Can we at least pretend to be civil in here?
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays.
Doug,
Having not read all of this thread, I don't know if this got answered.
The main differences between the types of cars say a Midget vs. Van Diemen.
The frames in oval cars like Sprint cars and even the sedans, are not "full" strength frame designs. For instance there are intended areas in the frame work, that will flex and bend in a wreck. The Midget frame isn't designed for maximum stiffness. As they also run dirt, the chassis is built to have flex in it, not only for grip in the dirt but also to "give" in bad wreck. The chassis will give, bend and crumple in a "programmed" fashion with certain areas of the frame that have no trianglation or bend tubes.
FF2000 cars are designed for maximum rigidity. There isn't a section of the frame that isn't for max strength. The frame isn't going to absorb impact, so the impact is transmitted to the driver with more force. Unfortunately, as is the nature of a FF2000 car, there isn't any large amount of side pod area to absorb side impacts. And all of the compartments in the car are relatively in close quarters to the driver.
It should be stated that "most" accidents are spins with the car making side contact with the wall, typically the left side of the car.
Secondly, the setup has a lot to do with frequency of accidents. An oval setup on a FF2000 is a far departure from a road race setup. Numerous incidents on ovals occurred from poorly setup cars. Mainly these were cars that had little oval setup trends and road racing directions were taken. The higher the degree of banking, the more obvious this became, to the point some cars were dangerous to drive.
On the other hand, a very well setup oval FF2000 is actually quite easy to drive fast, and when the setup is right, is very close to 80% the car, not the driver the ability.
In comparison to the original Oval cars, midgets, sprints etc. a well handling FF2000 is not only quicker, with much higher cornering ability, it's much more stable when put to the edge, than it's counterpart.
From a driver's point of view, there is some getting used to an oval. With banking that is 10% and above the driver will no longer have G force moving through their hips from left to right (commonly felt force) but from their left shoulder down through their right hip. At first this is very strange for a driver and finding the edge takes some experience with it.
The steering wheel feeling is also different, as instead of your hands telling you the grip level, it's your forearms. The combination of vertical-lateral G's causes the steering to become very light (impending understeer) or very heavy (impending oversteer). On a road course these have a different meaning.
A third driver difference, again with the banking, is where the driver's eyes are, looking where the drivers eyes would normally be on road courses, is literally directly in front of the car. On ovals the eyes need to be up and through the corner.
Frequently, any one or combination of these has lead to a crash.
To the inexperienced on an oval, these examples of driver indicators combined with a chassis that isn't setup according to at least a "standard" oval setup will lead to an incident. And typically that incident will be the hardest hit you will ever experience in a race car.
The biggest question, do FF2000's belong on an oval. IMHO, Absolutely.
George Main
SpeedSense consulting
What does any series offer that is endorsed by the USF1 or is a support series for the IRL ? International exposure
If you want to attract the big budget young guns you use the following phrases
- Carbon Fiber
- Sequential Shifting
- Formula 3
Here is an interesting read on the future of IRL.
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/a...polis-500.html
BTW a used F3 Dallara/Honda goes for about 35,000 lbs.
Last edited by JByers; 10.25.09 at 10:01 AM.
pound-wise...
thats a heavy dallara!
listen up folks I've had my ear to the ground and guess what I've got some more
news. Not engine related but DA series.
Think elan intake manifold and the players in that whole mess.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays.
the buzz is...
an announcement may be forthcoming from IMS on thursday
IRL/F2000
announced that Cooper Tire (Tyre?) will be the series Tire sponsor. Anyone know if they will be using 13X6"-13X8" wheels or 13X8"-13X10" wheels?
USF2000 Website
So I click on the banner ad for USF2000 and the first photo I see on their front page is from the F2000 Championship Series at Watkins Glen. I think I can even make out a bright green & blue Giubord car in the background. Ironic.
"I love the smell of race fuel in the morning. It smells like victory!"
Barry Wilcock
Pit Crew: Tumenas Motorsports/Houndspeed, Fat Boy Racing
Yep, you're right! In front of him is Mark Defer with his non-matching nose after he crashed. I agree that it's pretty ironic....
Can you guys let me know which picture you're talking about? The pictures on the website (and in the ads) are all from the 1990's, and I don't think any of them were from Watkins Glen. Is there another page I'm not aware of?
Mike Andersen
The photo changed. It was under "Latest Headline News". Now there is a photo of a white car with no numbers or sponsors, driver's helmet is yellow & green.
"I love the smell of race fuel in the morning. It smells like victory!"
Barry Wilcock
Pit Crew: Tumenas Motorsports/Houndspeed, Fat Boy Racing
Here is a link
Mike,
This is the link to the Watkins Glen picture....strange thing is when I open the page with Firefox it is a different picture but this one showed up when using IE.
Dan
http://www.f2000.com/images/scrolling-news/news1.png
Ingredients: Nothing but Barley, Hops, Water & Yeast.
Thanks. I have no idea why that picture is there (it shouldn't be). Must have been left over from something the web guy was playing around with - I'll let him know that he should remove it. The picture of the white car is the only one that was ever supposed to be in that spot.
Mike Andersen
I cleared my IE cache and both browsers now have the correct picture.
Ingredients: Nothing but Barley, Hops, Water & Yeast.
Will the new tire be the same as the old tire, and what were folks' impressions of them?
Just curious, is all. I'm going through my annual off-season tire angst...
Stan Clayton
Stohr Cars
The picture has also now been removed from the server, so hopefully that will solve the problem. Apparently it was a leftover image from when the templates were originally created - it was never intended to be part of the actual website. Thanks for your help in resolving this.
Mike Andersen
Just when Mrs. Frog was readying an invoice.
Janice always loved shooting Team Andersen cars, drivers, and crew. Very photogenic cars.
Ander Krohn has been one of her best ever photo customers.
Last edited by Purple Frog; 11.16.09 at 8:43 PM.
Are there any drivers or top teams committed to the series or is it just too early? The schedule looks very good.
the schedule looks expensive.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays.
looks like a great schedule !!
its only really expensive if you are based on the WEST coast !!!
Great job DAN !! all good events !!
it would be awesome if some how you could add one or 2 on this side of the world ...
Laguna Seca .. with ALMS !! ?? sears point (opps I mean Infineon) with IRL ??
Long Beach with IRL ???
good first stab at a blockbuster schedule!! just wish we had some out here too
looking forward to more good news !!
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West Coast Races...
Indeed! This series SHOULD run Long Beach and Infineon...
And...I'm from NC!
I suspect I am not the only one from FIL that is thinking of running... If I'm gonna have to tow out to CA...I'd rather get to run 2 cars than 1...
Dave
Is there any known incentive for the FIL or IRL teams to run USF2000 teams?
FIL & IRL teams etc...
Well, I can only speak for myself...but the best incentive I can see is having a place to run drivers that are too young(or poorly funded) for FIL...and give them a nice mix of tracks to run to prepare to make that move...or see that they should not!
Dave
Well, I can only speak for myself...but the best incentive I can see is having a place to run drivers that are too young(or poorly funded) for FIL...and give them a nice mix of tracks to run to prepare to make that move...or see that they should not!
Dave
So.... No, they don't have any incentive.
Thanks for the kind words. We tried very hard to get Laguna in May, but we apparently couldn't fit on that one. Long Beach was never an option (though we would go there in a heartbeat) due to a completely full event and paddock, and Infineon was a real possibility except it fell on the same weekend as the Road America ALMS event, which was one we felt we eneded to include for a number of reasons. Compiling a schedule is a very hard task, though it will be easier next year when we get a bigger head start, and we should therefore be on a lot more Indycar weekends.
As to news, we will be making several announcements at the PRI show next week. We have a peninsula booth and hope to see a lot of F2000 guys there.
Dan,
Are specs and series rules available yet?
Hi Jim,
Some information was sent out today, including a preview of the rules package, our points and prize money listings, entry fees, etc. The complete rules package is in the IRL's hands for final approval, and should be released shortly after the PRI show. Our website will be uploading itmes as soon as we can release them.
Dan
Pro series
I have to say that this really peaks my interest. Looks like a great and fun schedule. Excited to learn more.
It does look exciting. I hope that Versus will at least include highlights of the USF2000 event in their lead-up show to the St Pete event so I can get a glimpse.
I see on eFormulacarnews that Sarah Fisher is running a team in the series. It mentions Jay Howard. But I don't think his involvement would be as a driver in USF2000.
US F2000 PRI Announcement
New Van Dieman's and Mazda engines...guess I have to update my definition of "reasonable participant's cost". So much for the '99 VD I got.
To work then, this little team is gonna need an influx of cash. Maybe the 2011 season...if the good Lord's willing and the creek don't rise.
Richard L
is anyone surprised at ALL by this?
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays.
Due to Florida weather Fatboy Racing is currently grounded. Neither of the fatboys has their IRF rating yet and there is heavy cloud, so basically the fatplane can't go. We tried to leave yesterday and today but the southern weather is still screwing us so unfortunately we won't can;t make teh USF2000 meeting that we were cordially invited to.
So if we fatboy's decide we want to out fit a new 3 car effort to run in dan's series we need equipment. Can they deliver me 3 new chassis and 4 engines (need a spare) with enough time to assemble them, biuld them properly, and in a timely manner, so that we can actually go do some winter testing before the season starts so that our shakedown on a brand new engine/chassis package isn't on the street of St. Petersburg? Where do I send my check?
how about all the other teams? Are there 25 complete chassis just sitting there waiting to be shipped?
It might be a damn lonely race with just us 3 fatboys. You know chuck and I will take each other out at the start, so I guess that means Thom is gonna win the inaugural usf2000 race. That wreaks of "pro" oh yeah and "scotch".
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays.
and in a departure from my normal insano rantings, we seriously did try to make it to PRI for the meeting.
that is indeed the fatboys, flying. I know, it's terrifying.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays.
Going Going....my interest is GONE!
I am not surprised by this but I thought it would be cool to run 1 year in a series with 1 engine. With this announcement, I am no longer considering running the series. Its a shame, I actually finished putting everything together just yesterday to run the series.
This Mazda motor ruined the deal for me.
But I am sure that I don't matter to the new series anyway.
Well if you don't matter to the new series it seems likely that many others won't matter to it either.
Hmmmm, under that model it seems possible that the new series may soon be an old one.
Not sure I understand their business model.
Spec Cars
They ruined it before even starting. With spec everything, how do they think they are going to develop driver talent? Same old stuff packaged another way.
Road to Indy? I don't think that's the goal for road racers anyway.
did I miss something ???
or did the NEW car and MAZDA engine not start until 2011 not 2010 .... and even in 2011 there will be a FC car with the current rules allowed to run ... like in the Copper Series the "Cooper" cars WERE all pretty much VD's ... and then the national "pinto" cars were FC cars .. seems like the same thing ... just Zetec and Pinto allowed now ...
Ill bet the new car is similar to the FE car .... just with the 2.0 liter Vs the 2.3 liter ..... and some body work ... ??
with the absense of FBMW ... there will be kids to run the USF2000 .... why not 40+ car fields ... 25 new and 15+ FC....
or visa vera....
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The press release that I see on the USF2000 website says that Mazda will power the series in 2010.
I think that your guess about the cars being similar to the FE cars is probably pretty accurate. Those are in the pipeline now and should be deliverable by March. Did I read somewhere that the VD contract with Enterprises is ending soon and Enterprises may soon be able to seek alternate vendors for FE parts?
I've got to admit that I am impressed with the decision making ability that looks at something successful (early USF2000 and F2000CS) and something that failed (Cooper series) and chooses to emulate the failure.
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