Getting into Formula Ford racing

[Avalon]

I've heard a little about FF racing, and I want to know more about it.
How can I get involved with this?
Where do you race?
About how much does a formula ford cost?
Would it be better to get involved with vintage or modern racing?
Where can I buy a car?

Basically, everything you'd tell someone who's new to formula ford racing.

Thanks!

[carnut169]

How can I get involved with this?

Go to a local race and talk to everyone there. Sit in the cars, become a crew member or work the event(s).

Where do you race?

Almost every track you can think of.

About how much does a formula ford cost?

Depends on the year, make and condition. Question is sort-of like asking how much for a used car. Nut-shell, I'd say $3000- $20,000.

Would it be better to get involved with vintage or modern racing?

Better? I would think FF would cost less.

Where can I buy a car?

Classifieds right here...

everything you'd tell someone who's new to formula ford racing

Read, read, read. Start w/ this BBS, and you will learn a ton.

Best of luck!

[Garey Guzman]

Sean pretty much covered everything but I'll add a few more comments.

A monoposto FF for Vintage racing is roughly $15-25k. These cars are a fair amount slower than more modern cars like a Swift but the run groups on the west coast are pretty well attended.

A Club FF will be cheaper than a "modern" FF but will not be competitive in National FF (unless you have gobs of talent/experience like Mike Rand, etc).

I always ask newbies what their goal is. If it's F1, I hope you're 16 or younger and your parents have a lot of money. If it's to eventually race up front in SCCA Nationals, I'd suggest a Swift. Although DB-6's are very fast, there are still DB-1's that run in the top 10 at the RunOffs, despite being over 20 years old! The best thing is that
a) lots of people have them
b) lots of people have experience with them and
c) lots of people might be able to help you out at the track.

[Avalon]

Right now I'm 15 years old. Formula 1 has and always will be a dream of mine, but I'm almost hesitant to say that's my goal. I'd much rather start of in FF and do my best and see how things work out. If it turns out I'm a decent driver, and I win a few races, that might become my real aim.

The biggest problem wouldn't be money. We're not rich, but we've been very blessed, and I'd consider our family upper middle class. I think of my parents saw that I was very serious about doing this they'd help me out.

My biggest problem would be time. Like all normal 15 and 16 year olds, I'm in high school for most of the year. Are most of the races on Saturday? I also can't exactly travel around the US going to races, even in the summer time.

My other problem is space. This is something I'd really like to do, but our house has a 1 car garage, and we have 2 cars already, without me having a FF car or a daily driver. Where do you guys usually keep and work on your cars? There is very very little chance I could turn the shed in out back yard into a toolshed for a car, as that's where basically everything that would normally be kept in an attic or extra garage is, and to say it's full would be an understatement. The only thing I could think to do would be to rent a storage space, and turn it into a sort of garage.

Any help on these new issues?

[Wooly]

Go-Carts

I love FF and race a club ford, but at your age I'd start out in carts, to see if you have the talent and determination. Go do a carting school this summer ASAP and then start racing at your local venues.

Find out who has a formula racing program in your area somebody running the Pro Mazda Series, Zetec or Pro FSCCA series, offer to help in any way sweeping the shop waxing the cars whatever. Ask questions and learn everything you can.

I worked at the Bondurant school for a number of years and have watched may co-workers move up in the ranks, a certain somebody that started at Bob's in the same position I did a couple of years later won the Indy 500 last week. He was racing carts back then went to FF2000, Atlantics and IRL today.

Work hard in school and go to college and go into a high paying profession, because most of us don't have the natural talent but we still love to race and it takes spare income that only a good job will provide.

In conclusion go carting and work at a race shop while you study very hard. Show dedication and people will help if the carting works then move up into modern FF for a year then a professional open wheel series.

Wooly

[Beartrax]

I'll 2nd the karting idea. Check out redbulldriversearch.com. There are places where you can rent karts and they'll track your lap times. Kart Track (www.karttrack.com) in Windsor, CT is one place.

Also, check out skipbarber.com. You will need some school anyway if you want an SCCA license. They also hold race series where you can earn scholarships for higher levels. You won't need to clean out your garage. You can focus on your driving and not worry about prepping a car while you learn whether or not you are F1 quality. For many, prepping the car is at least 1/2 the fun & I'm not knocking it. I'm just considering your age & situation.

Definately pursue your dreams and at least give it a try, otherwise you will kicking yourself when you are 40!

All the best!

[LolaT440]

At 15, I would buy a car, not a cart. Mainly because most kids move out of carts into cars around that age. You can buy a club ford for around 5-10. Used karts with parts are 2500 to 3500. Then a trailer etc...

I think it would be good to start building up all the tools and items now, (tools, truck, trailer) so when your getting good in three years you can have all the pieces in place to invest in a top quality car and be successful.

You can work on a lot of skills with a good computer game. Then take in a School.

Investigate Vintage carefully. Everyone are not out there for the same reason. Entry costs are higher.

Just my opinon.

[mark defer]

a little reality check here.
money is always a problem. your folks may be able to help you initially buy a car and help you in a club racing effort. but even in club racing, any shot at a national title in FF or FC would cost a minimum of 30k per year after the cost of the car [and that would be for someone doing all their own prep work]. after club racing, costs skyrocket. they would have to be rich, very rich in fact, to finance any true pro racing budget in the future. most folks who have never been involved in this sport have no idea of the cost of running a car.
this is not to say you shouldn't get involved, we all have a ball doing this stuff. you and your folks just need to have some idea of what you're getting into financially.

mark d

[Bill Bonow]

Where is the Frog when you need him? He had a great "plan of attack" for the young racer posted here somewhere. Classic stuff

[rickjohnson356]

At fifteen, I would say get involved at the worker level as indicated by others above. Go ahead and try the Karts, but focus on college funding and graduating first. Then you will be able to get a job that will allow you to indulge in this hobby. You could also do autocross (Solo 2 or Solo 1) to get some initial idea of how cars handle and what effect different changes in tire pressure, sway bar settings etc have on a car. The techniques learned there will apply to any kind of racing.

STAY IN SCHOOL!!!

[Avalon]

What's the youngest you can be and have an SCCA racing license and also race FF?

I'm not a big fan of karts. maybe that's the wrong impression, but they've always struck me as a way for kids younger than me to start racing. I'd rather spend a little extra money and get into the real thing.

Maybe I have been a little misleading in my posts. I'm am not ready to go racing and buy a car in the next year, but it is something that I am serious about doing at some point. I do plan to stick around and ask questions and find out what I can now. That way, when the time comes and I have the money, I can dive right in and get going without having to do a bunch of research.

So, you guys will have to put up with me for a while, so get used to it.

[carnut169]

You are wrong there.
Karts are raced by folks of any age bracket. They will teach you a ton and won't break the bank. Spend a little extra? Wrong there also. It will be a LOT extra to race FF over karts. Don't dismiss it soo soon. A part-time job and you are racing karts- not true for FF.

Again... all the info is available in these forums.

[Curtis Boggs]

Run the Karts, .. most pros use karts to practice & stay in shape, .. .. karts are THE place to start, .. then FF, .. then more power with wings, .. etc.

Curtis

[Chris Robson]

I have a ICA kart (100cc Direct drive) and it is one of the most difficult machines to tame out there. They demand precise control and are at the limit of adhesion every second. Their are all types of classes to start karting. Find out what is around where you are and what you really want to do. I know that most of the Champ Car "hero's" still have a kart or two laying around that they drive on their off days. Michael Schumacher swears by his ICA kart and he's kinda good...

[Purple Frog]

15 and "blessed"

Everybody's definition of "blessed" is different. [img]redface.gif[/img] And, we aren't going to discuss your family's finances on the web (unless they have enough to fund my national championship effort in '05).

In the last couple of years on this site and the F2000 site in the "Getting Started" forums there have been some very good discussions of the costs of racing and how to start. I suggest reading all those old posts. You can dig them up with the search feature, etc. Some lay out some very clear costs. If those costs don't scare you, continue on.

Reading what little you said, I'd be pointing you in one of two directions:
1. I still think there is some value in the private schools, such as Skip Barber. I'm a bit bias being a Skippy grad. But in three or four days and $3K you will know if it's your cup of tea or if OSB.
2. The other direction is the 100cc kart deal. You seem to be space limited, so karts play into that scene even better. You can fit everything into a little 5x8 trailer or back of a pickup and go racing. You'll learn quickly what it takes to get prepared to get to the track, work with rules, get to grid on time, and maybe even race a bit. The "process" of most motorsports activities is basically the same, the difference is in the scale of the cost. You can learn almost all the "process" the least expensively thru karting.

OBTW, if blessed is like Fortune 500 blessed... email me directly, we will have you in a pro car before season's end. Would you like to test this week?

[Garey Guzman]

I believe that SCCA will license 16 year olds with parental consent. Join SCCA and buy a GCR (General Competition Rules handbook).

Something that is extremely important to us beginners is seat time. You'll get a lot more of it by getting a kart first rather than "spending a little more" to get an FF. Sure, you can get an FF for as little as $10k or less but it probably won't be capable of running up front at National races. You can spend substantially less for a front-running kart and you'll have a ton of competition.

I would go so far as to say that very few F1/Champ Car drivers don't have any karting experience. I've seen a few "rookies" in SCCA with karting experience and they were fast right out of the box! At my first FF race, I think I was 15 seconds or more slower than Regional FF drivers but now, in my third season, I'm 4 seconds behind a top 10 finisher at the RunOffs. But that improvement is through 3 years of FF seat time with no kart time.

Hey, I should get a kart!

[Daryl DeArman]

Yeah Garey get a kart! Cheap seat time, as long as we're talking about open practice days in a 100cc or old shifter and not trying to chase down Rainey or Lawson [img]smile.gif[/img] . (Who ran lap times over 18 seconds a lap faster than any FF at California Speedway). Which, incidently was also faster than the pole for the Pacific F2000 race. Yes, same configuration. Utilizing about 1 mile of the oval and no it was not raining in the F2000 class.

The only guys that you see successfully go from karts to cars by the time they are 16 are guys who started in karts when they were less than 10 years old. I know there are exceptions.

Overall, karting is very cheap. However, just as you are doing some research here. Do some research at the karting tracks and forums. There are karting classes that can be very expensive. The range is broader than it is in FF.

[Larry]

Blessed is nice, but we also need to talk about time! I would say that most guys put in about 10 hours of labor preparing a car for a race weekend. At first it will be more, simply because you're learning the car. The first time I changed a clutch it took 8 hours, but by the fifth time it was down to about 3.

Garage space is critical! Can you find space near your home, or will you be spending time driving back and forth that could better be spent (1) working on the car, (2) doing homework, or (3) chasing girls?

Six races a year is a good season. Ten races is a LOT! You should budget about $1,500/race weekend. Some will do it for less, but $1,500 is a good starting number.

Larry Oliver
International Racing Products

[kbee00]

Avalon,

Just thought I would throw in my two cents worth - from a guy that got into FF at age 39 I can tell you that, although money is certainly a big factor, the real test of "is this for me" is the personal sacrifice and determination required for any kind of motorsport. Motor racing is not so much "a thing to do" as much as a way of living your life. With very few exceptions, you will not find a bunch of people with more personal determination, tenacity and intelligence anywhere. During the first 5 years I raced (production based cars - which some people think is a the cheapest way into racing - which it is definetly NOT - but that's a whole other story) I met some incredibly superior people. Everytime I go to the track, I meet a few more. So I would advise you to go to the track - help crew for someone in FF. I know most racers would love to have an extra hand and you will learn, from the inside, what racing is all about. In exchange for your help, you will gain vast knowledge, much faster than just looking in from the outside. Go to www.scca.org and find the region nearest you. Go to their website and you should find out what races are being held near you as well as some contacts within that region. Make the call and you will be on your way. I like the idea posted above about getting a kart - you will learn the culture and that is what is important. But from my biased point of view - FF is a great way to have fun and get the most bang for the buck. When you do get into a car, you let us know. We are all looking for more good competition. See you at the track!!

Loren J. Tieman
'83 Reynard
#00 FF
Fatboy Racing

[Avalon]

When do you usually have races, and what's the farthest you usually travel for a race?

[Chris Robson]

My daughter has decided she wants to become a "Race Driver". now if I were to do this all over again and bring her through the ranks, this is what I would do. Obviously your age has something to do with this, but let's just go with her and figure that we are " financially blessed"

5 years old to 8 years old Quarter midgets
comments: do not move into another class until a track championship has been won

8 years old to 12 years old cadet karting
comments: same as above and keep the quarter midget cross training is essential

12 years old to 15 years old ICA 100cc direct drive karts running the "Stars of Tomorrow" WKA program
comments: run with the big dogs and see if you can hang!

16+ Skippy school to learn to drive.
comments: inexpensive, maintenance free and tons of track time. Keep the kart to stay sharp

17+ Skippy school or spec series
comments: if you are going to be the next World Champ, plan on beating everyone in a spec series first. Without a championship to your name, you will be "blessed" for only so long.

I learned from an early age that Championships on a resume make a difference, so does the fact that you participated in a complete series and had the skill/speed/ finesse/ and patience to finish on top. You have proved you can win and also you can take care of equipment.

This is by no means the Bible, rather just my opinion. Before you go any further, you must decide if you really like racing or the idea of racing. Both have their strong points. The Jim Russell school has a fantastic mechanics program. You can start anywhere, just be ready to be extremely frustrated in the beginning if you try to tackle all aspects of racing from the get go (driving, ownership, preparation/travel/testing) Karts will give you a taste of everything you could ever want to experience in racing and it will not take up an tremendous amount of space or an enormous budget.

...but remember this... the faster you want to go the more it will cost and no matter what, someone you race against CAN ALWAYS OUT SPEND YOU!


again just my opinion...


Chris Robson

[R John Lye]

Hi Avalon,

Where in Virginia are you located? There will be
an SCCA Regional race at Summit Point (near
Winchester, VA), the weekend of June 26/27. If
you can talk your parents into bringing you out
to watch a race weekend, and see what goes on, I
suspect that you'll learn a lot. Just make sure
that you talk to lots of the people there.

John

[Richard Dziak]

At age 52 I decided to enter the SCCA program and buy a FF- It has been a blast- You cannot get a thrill like this from alcohol or drugs. However, I must say my first year was quite expensive. As a rookie I ran a lot of races, with lots of travel from So New Mexico back and forth to Colorado as I am a member of the Rocky Mountain Division. I finished in 2nd Place in the RMD for FF- Here's some insight to expenses-

Professional driving school- $3000.00
Fire Proof Suit- "the Best" - $800.00
Bell M3 Helmet - $450.00
AlpineStars Gloves/Boots- $300.00
RF85 Van Diemen FF- $8500.00
Enclosed New 16ft Trailer $4500.00
SCCA fees- Entry $2500.00
Other Event fees $1000.00
Tires - Goodyear Eagles
3 sets-New $2100.00
Professional race Prep
Repair and maintanence $2000.00
Travel, Hotels, Meals
Gas $8000.00

Many other misc expenses:

Overall I spent $42,000 my first year.

So far in 2004 I spent $5600 for a complete engine rebuild- and another $2000 to the race shop for removal- replacement and professional set ups on the car.

So its expensive, be prepared. I have formed a LLC to have some tax writeoffs which helped. But it is NOT a cheap sport, especially if you want to race the car and travel to different events and tracks. You cannot do this on the cheap.

Remember my motto to racing: Safety First, Have Fun, be competitive if you can.

Hopefully this will add a little insight to the costs of driving a Formula Ford. 2004 will be less expensive and I would never quit racing the FF-

Its only money and you can't take it with you, so enjoy, enjoy, enjoy.

Go for it and drive the FF like you stoled it!!!!!!Be safe.

Richard Dziak
Car #77 Formula Ford
Las Cruces, NM