Rumors abound--CART & IRL to combine forces

[SteveG]

..... They must not be able to afford web support!

Maybe because Champ Car let most everyone go on Friday and someone forgot to turn the lights off?

[marksman motorsport]

I hope the newly reformed championship is a success, it'll take a year for it bed down then next year should start to grow.

The championship needs to be open to manufacturers, and different engines maybe just honda and cosworth but also cars. Lola bent over backwards to help Champcar then got f**ked up the arse.

[Daryl DeArman]

I won't be suprised if the guest lineup for wind tunnel changes.

[Beartrax]

Blah, blah, blah

Other than a couple barbs between Kalkhoven and Miller, Wind Tunnel was a bit boring and not much was said. They were holding back for the big press conference. Tony George was "Mr. Excitement"...

[D.T. Benner]

If they ever make a Movie about this I think Robin Williams could play Kevin Kalkoven and Dustin Hoffman in his Rain Man role could play Tony George.

[Ted Idlof]

The movie would just be a spin off of Wag the Dog. From my old post:

Anyway, I'm still laughing at watching Dustin Hoffman and Robert DiNiro in the Wag The Dog movie as they fly around staging wars, creating false rumors and scenarios to steer the media and public away from the real issues and facts. I could see Hoffman playing FTG and DiNiro playing KK.

Of course all the FTG haters cannot envision him as being that smart, but for the rest of us, some literary license helps make a great point; we, the fans have been jacked around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-FXkj-r9Mc

[Rick Kirchner]

I find it kinda funny that a lot of folks make TG out to be the vilage idiot.

Lets see - who bought the CART assets and ran the series into the ground?

Who took a single race event and added NASCAR and F1, and emerged the victor in the IRL/CC battle?

Call him an idiot, but he'll be laughing all the way to the bank - especially if he brings Open Wheel back into prominance against NASCAR while using the Brickyard money to do it.

France and company can't seem to make a decision these days that seems fair to the fans.

[Ted Idlof]

I find it kinda funny that a lot of folks make TG out to be the vilage idiot.

We'll, he's responsible for Gene Simmons doing the I am Indy shemozzle. Ya gotta admit, that was really dumb. Now if they announce that Willie Nelson will replace that loser for song writiing and general entertainment....... we know the series needs a slogan and song, but sheesh, Gene Simmons????? WTF??

They need fresh ideas to replace all the CC fans that are swearing up and down they'll walk. If they don't replace Gene $hithead, I may too.

[Rick Kirchner]

I hafta admit, I can't figure that one out either. But as a KISS fan in the 70's I've always found it funny how those guys were panned by all the critics and yet survived three decades and made untold millions.

As a businessman who's major product is his own ego, Gene's pretty hard to beat.

My wife's a fan of "The Apprentice". When Gene and the boys started out whuppin' the girl's team this year I told my wife that Gene was going to win that thing. then, the next week, he loses and give the Donald an impossible set of choices, essentially throwing himself under the bus. I gess he either wanted off the show or thought his ego would carry the day.

This whole USAC/CART/IRL/CCWS thing has been mostly about ego from the beginning anyway.

[race95]

TG will even have the last laugh on Bernie when he runs the IRL on the grand prix track at some future date W/O sanction fees. Might be a nice venue for a FC2000 pro race as a supporting event.

There has never been much doubt about the outcome of all this, 'cause TG owns one of the most valuable pieces of real estate on the planet, which also just happens to represent open wheel racing in this country and access to the corporate $$ . If you want to ultimately come play you will have to deal with the guy that has the football, may that be good or bad.

[D.T. Benner]

The Speed TV broadcast was on today. About what you expected but some things that were not addressed were Who the Atlantics will be running with. and Kevin KalKoven mentioned that he would not be surprised if some of the drivers who went to the IRL race at japan may try to make it back in time to run the Long Beach "so Long to Champ Car" event. Boy that would be some jet lagged experience?
My biggest dissapointment was Tony georges statement that he wants to see at least 50 percent of the future IRL races remain on Ovals! Open wheel racers on Ovals are not so much about the driver as they are about who gets the set-up right. Even Na--ar team owners admit that when a team hits the sweet spot even the Tire Monkey could probably have driven the car to victory.
The big picture is that Tony George won the IRL/ChampCar war the same way the US defeated the Soviet Union. He Out-spent them.

[Rick Kirchner]

yeah but - oval racing is a pretty uniquely American form of the sport - not that they don't race on ovals elsewhere, but it's where the majority of americans race. And, from a cost perspective, it's easier to fill grandstands around a big oval than most road courses, and takes fewer cameras to cover an event, and is much easier for TV to cover.

In my opinion, the safety features required today around racetracks are much more intrusive on road courses than ovals. They just seem to block more of the action.

The old USAC championship trail required you to win on long ovals, short ovals, and natural road courses. I think at one time you also had to be able to run a champ dirt car and stock car.

All the great American drivers of the past came out of that environment - Foyt, Andretti, the Unsers, Snyder, Jones, and on and on and on.

[Steve Demeter]

If anyone thinks jsut a good set up is all it takes to win on ovals, think about this one.

I once read an article about Rick Mesars telling how he could tweak the stagger and thus the handling of the car on ovals by simply entering the turns a little higher or lower and thus working the outside tires more or less and thus changing the pressures ever so slightly.

If that is not talent then what is.

It is true that one can carry a car on a road course to a greater extent than on an oval, but you still have to drive it.

[Justin Daniels]

Any bets on how long it will take for someone to make a F1000 conversion kit for the Panoz chassis? haha

[Richard Hybels]

There could be some interesting situations develop between G. Rahal and whomever is driving for Bobby.
If I remember right Al Jr. blocked for his dad at Indy one year. Mario beat Michael by a short distance one fathers day at Portland.
Those were the good old days

[Ted Idlof]

Open wheel racers on Ovals are not so much about the driver as they are about who gets the set-up right. Even Na--ar team owners admit that when a team hits the sweet spot even the Tire Monkey could probably have driven the car to victory.

Yep. hate to agree with you again, D.T. but possibly the best example of that was Parker Johnstone in the Comptech (yeah who?) Honda in 95 at Michigan: his first oval race, first Honda pole, track record at 238mph; had the field covered until he dropped out with a mechanical. And being a road racer, history shows he never got comfortable on ovals. Comptech was a poor little shop just up the road from Sacto and couldn't even run the full series, but they struck gold that weekend.

[Jim Garry]

If I remember right Al Jr. blocked for his dad at Indy one year.

After the race, Sneva (who won) said, “He was doing what he could to help his dad win the race,” Sneva said. “You can’t blame him for that.”

But Al wasn't exactly a slug out there. In his post race interview, Al Jr first said, "what? Me? Blocking?" And then he immediately lost the innocent look, smiled, and said something like, he was only a mile an hour or so slower than Sneva and asked why should he have moved over. He said he held his line and drove fast and when Sneva finally had enough to get past him entering the turn, he gave it up.

That was the day I became an Al Unser Jr fan. It was unfortunate that he had so many problems later in his career/life.


Jim

[R S F]

Its a done deal, champ car is dead.

[Scott Gesford]

[quote=D.T. Benner;166583] Open wheel racers on Ovals are not so much about the driver as they are about who gets the set-up right. Even Na--ar team owners admit that when a team hits the sweet spot even the Tire Monkey could probably have driven the car to victory.


Ever turn a lap on a oval in your life?

[Ron Tebo]

I have... I.R.P. and it wasn't any fun at all.....Hold on for dear life and turn left.

[D.T. Benner]

I have run Ovals on dirt and pavement. Don't get me wrong as I am not against all Oval racing. My feeling is that Open Wheel Formula cars at the level of IRL/Champ Car are to dependant on set-up. Backing a dirt sprinter into a turn and riding the berm is a completely different thing.

[TimW]

Getting a car work well on an oval is very hard indeed. Ask Nigel Mansell what happens when one tries to 'carry' a car on an oval for the first time...

I have never driven on an oval (some would say I can't really drive a road course) but an Indy 500 Rookie of the Year gave me the best description of how to drive an oval, as he had to discover driving a Super Vee for the first time at an oval at IRP in a previous years Night Before the 500:

"Drive the car to the point where you think its the last moment you can successfully still turn in, count to 4 then turn in" I think he also said something like close your eyes for the 4 count... said driver frequents this board so I'll let him attribute it to himself if he wishes it to be known and to correct my interpretation of his perspective...

Mario argued that for the super speedways where one is flat all the way around the way to make them harder to drive is add 100bhp. For the shorter ovals, its not called a bullring for nothing. Turn 1 at Phoenix into the sunset at 190 MPH will get a drivers attention...

[Rick Kirchner]

Driving a 70-77 Indy car back in the day? 1100 HP offys. Hard tires expected to last nearly the whole race. Jacking weight to counter fuel burn-off. More wake turbulance from the cars in front than a 747. Driving with your head out in the breeze whigh no whizzy stuff on the helmet. Sucking in all that unburned methanol. 220 on the straights, 160 in the corners.

[Daryl DeArman]

That's when you had to DRIVE.

I have driven dirt and pavement ovals in an open wheel CDCRA car.

IMO, you can have the setup more "wrong" on the dirt and drive around it, eventually the track might come to you and go away from others. On the pavement, miss the setup a little and you are hung out to dry.

As far as the racing goes, the CDCRA cars turned 13-14 second laps on a 1/4 mile track. That means you have 60 turns in 2 minutes to make it from the back (Rookie) to a transfer spot (many times top 4). That is some intense racing. First time on a full size road course after that, (started in sprint karts) I wanted to bring a book just so I had something to do on the straights

[Garey Guzman]

Looks like we can deduce who was most against this merger:

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...28195452.shtml

[race95]

I have done <10 second laps on short tracks and if the race goes green for 30 laps you better have done your training. If you have, you can watch those less prepared start to have physical issues that send them straight to the rear. I have found not to ignore the demands of this road racing if it comes down to a tough fight. Heart rates can reach some interesting numbers.

Forsythe is a cry baby and can stick it.

[Jim Gustafson]

I raced a Super Vee in the "Night Before The 500" event at IRP in '88 or '89. 5/8 mile high banked oval, 80 laps! My tongue was hanging out, my head was hanging out. On Monday I had to go see the doctor... my spine was like an "S". I was 42 years old at the time. My seat in the car didn't support me for that kind of loading for that length of time. The doctor wanted to put me in the hospital. "Sorry, I have to race at Milwaukee next week, and I have lots of work to do on the car". I have a real appreciation for that type of racing.

Jim Gustafson
Racing Since 1970

[rudolphtg]

I find it kinda funny that a lot of folks make TG out to be the vilage idiot.

Lets see - who bought the CART assets and ran the series into the ground?

Tony could have owned those assets in January of 2004 if he had been smart enough to understand the difference between Chapter 11 and Chapter 13. Or if he had hired people smart enough. Instead he walked out of the courtroom stunned that it didn't go his way. Does anyone actually think he has the smarts to run a racing series?

He's had everything he needed to bury CART for the last 6 years.... and he couldn't figure out how. It took an internal power struggle and the 'leadership' of Steve Johnson to bring down ChampCar. Tony's league appears to have fewer committed cars for 2008.

But a picture is worth a thousand words....

This is supposed to be the face that will lead OpenWheel racing into the future?



Call me in three years when the palace revolt happens. Maybe someone with a clue will wind up in charge......