Running costs

[jcorsico]

I'm thinking about getting an FSCCA car, and I'm trying to figure out the running costs. A few basic questions:

1) How long are people getting out of their engines? One whole season? How much is a new engine?

2) And transmissions?

3) Any other major problems with the cars? It seems like there used to be issues when the cars were newer, but many of these growing pains have been solved.

4) If I get a new car from SCCA Enterprises, what has to be done it to to make it a top notch car? Do they come with the PI system installed? How about the better half-shafts - should I replace the Van Diemen ones immediately with the Taylor units? Do they come with AN/MS hardware, or Grade 8 parts? I assume they come with the Penske shocks now.

Thanks very much,
Jon

[Matthew Inge]

I will tell you that the drivers side of this is the best bang for the buck! I will let someone tell you about maintenance and all that other stuff, but Honestly I couldn't think of a better class. Enterprises has done a great job to make all these cars equal and very competitive. You won't find a group of better guys to run with.

I know that before I bought a FE of my own, the one I rented had 2 years on the motor, about 15 weekends or more and it was still very very strong. Enterprises has seemed to work out all of the issues that were of concern and now the car is nearly indestructible. You can find a very good value on a used car now and I would recommend that, as long as it has all of the updates. Make sure you look at the website for enterprises for all the updates.
http://www.scca-enterprises.com/


Matthew Inge


Also, call your local CSR!

[SStadel]

Jon,

I've gotten five seasons out of my engine and I won four nationals with it this year. A new engine (exchange) is around $4,500, I believe. The latest trans parts hold up very well. I just inspected a gearbox for a competitor that had about 15 races on it and all he needed were dogs and they weren't even that bad.

The half shafts that come with the new cars will not break. They are the latest, greatest from Fast Forward. The new cars come with the Penskes and the new steering joints. They do come with junk hardware, but I sell an AN kit for $85. I'm pretty sure all the new cars come with my tow hook design also. The new cars also come with the alternator, the lightened flywheel and clutch and the new fuel injection/fuel pump system.

Tires will last you two weekends and brake pads 1-2 seasons (yes, seasons!). The clutch disks have been lasting 2-3 seasons as well.

One of my competitors has stated that its cheaper to run this car than when he ran an FV nationally. IMO, you can't go wrong.

Steve

[jcorsico]

Jon,

I've gotten five seasons out of my engine and I won four nationals with it this year. A new engine (exchange) is around $4,500, I believe. The latest trans parts hold up very well. I just inspected a gearbox for a competitor that had about 15 races on it and all he needed were dogs and they weren't even that bad.

The half shafts that come with the new cars will not break. They are the latest, greatest from Fast Forward. The new cars come with the Penskes and the new steering joints. They do come with junk hardware, but I sell an AN kit for $85. I'm pretty sure all the new cars come with my tow hook design also. The new cars also come with the alternator, the lightened flywheel and clutch and the new fuel injection/fuel pump system.

Tires will last you two weekends and brake pads 1-2 seasons (yes, seasons!). The clutch disks have been lasting 2-3 seasons as well.

One of my competitors has stated that its cheaper to run this car than when he ran an FV nationally. IMO, you can't go wrong.

Steve

Steve -

Thanks very much. Those lifespans are very impressive, particularly the engine.

Do the new cars come with the PI system?

Are there other things that people typically do to the new cars to get them in top shape?

Jon

[SStadel]

The new cars do come with a Pi dash. I think you get the engine specifics, but if you want more than that you need to buy sensors. I suggest replacing with CDS, as the data available from them is well worth the price.

Other worthwhile extras are the cockpit inserts from Comprent, an oil cooler (if anything just for the additional volume of oil, as the capacity is very small), an offset pad on the brake pedal and a foot drop box if you have large feet. I did put LED rain lights on all of our cars.

Of course you'll want an additional set of wheels with mounted rains, possibly a third set of wheels (a luxury), a quick jack w/front wing adapter (Gyrodynamics) and a remote battery plug in. Although we haven't had to use a jump battery in years, it's nice to plug a charger in if necessary. We rarely have to charge the battery and we are all on our original batteries (again, five seasons!)

When its time for the track, go to your local BP and fill up with 93 octane Ultimate and you're ready to go.

[KField]

I spend on average 15k a year to campaign my FE, including entry fees, tires, etc. Jim Swain and I do our own maintenance, etc. Of course, crashes are extra!!!
My engine ran something like 40 weekends before it expired. The replacement was under 5k.
Tires stay good for 6 to 8 sessions depending on the track.
If you buy a new car you will need to assemble it. Allow 80 to 100 man hours, but it is not all that difficult and there are many who will be happy to give you advice.
There are some very good used cars for sale which have already been well developed.
Great car and a great class.
Keith Field

[MJM]

I used to have a list of the parts and current costs but now I can't find it.

Anyone have one they can post?

Thanks

[Blacksport350]

I used to have a list of the parts and current costs but now I can't find it.

Anyone have one they can post?

Thanks

Anyone have this? I would love to get one too and it seems that Enterprises does not offer a price list.

[MJM]

Anyone have this? I would love to get one too and it seems that Enterprises does not offer a price list.

anyone, anyone.....pricelist?

[DonArm]

Great thread.

Jon, I would recommend going to one of the races and talking to people.
I went to the ARRC at Road Atlanta this past weekend to watch a friend of mine run his FE and to talk to people about running a FF. But after meeting a few people who run the FE cars, (Matthew and Ian, thanks for letting me run with you guy's in the kart race) and asking quite a few questions about both FF and FE, I'm now going to go with the FE. It just seem like a much better bang for the buck.

Don

[Matthew Inge]

Don,
That was a blast! I think we had a shot at 1st if we would have had proper equipment. Anyways, good choice with going to FE. I can promise anyone that they would not regret it. You cant find a nicer group of guys.

Matthew

[Blair Robertshaw]

where or how do these cars shake out in a performance comparison to a well prepared F2000 car?

[smcqueen]

Well prepped car and comperable driver a FC will be one to two seconds quicker, depending upon the track. Most divisional races we go to, the fastest FC's and the fastest FE's are very close with the FE's often coming out on top.

FC is lighter, optimal gearing, cleaner aero for better top speed, and open tire compounds. FE has much better torque, sequential gearbox, good downforce.

Major difference in my opionion. Most FC's are not capable of winning a national championship while every FE is capable of winning a national championship.

You can go to Mylaps and look at the June Sprints results for a comparison of a pretty strong field for both classes on a big open track.

Scott

[Blair Robertshaw]

Thanks Scott. What about operating costs and reliability? Seems they are way more $ than a well prepared front running pre owned FC. What do they cost new?

[MarkM]

I can't imagine them being more expensive. You did say "front running". Cheaper to buy an FC, yes. Cheaper to operate, no way. Just say "annual engine rebuild", game over.

I would imagine that every person running at the front of FC at the runofffs spends A LOT on their engine each year. FE, nope.

I think Scott's comment about EVERY FE being capable of winning a national championship is the bottom line.

Mark

[Ken Rozeboom]

Post by Stan Clayton in FC section:

I was told by one pro-FF2000 team owner that they never even removed the valve cover between engine replacements (no overhauls) at 9000-11,000 miles. And that was at the full 162-ish hp. And Sandy Shamlian of Quicksilver told me that he thinks that with frequent oil changes the engines will make 142 hp indefinitely, as they are not being turned hard enough to wear them out. Stan

This for the Zetec motor.

[MarkM]

Zetec is the only motor that makes sense in FC. Then you have a nice package.

Even so, the parity of the FE cars is attractive to me. Oh, and I like the sequential shift.

Mark

[Rick Ross]

The Zetec motor will last forever, and a Zetec powered FC is a VERY reliable, fun, and fast car, not much more costly to run than FE. The real question is whether or not you prefer a spec class. If you do, then it is hard to beat FE -- great cars, good folks, and close racing. Both classes are outstanding.

[D.T. Benner]

Rick is correct! Probably the only other cost difference between a Zetec FC and an FE car is the cost of spares for an FE car compared to the many choices of parts suppliers for an FC car. BUT no one buys a car with the thought that THEY will NEED to buy parts!
BOTH great classes with the parity thing in the FE class a big attraction if you want to prove it's YOU that make's the difference between 1st. and DFL.
I just attended our Region Awards Banquet and was with the FE group. That Includes last years ARRC winner Brandon Aleckson and this years ARRC 5th. place finnisher Donna Gilio.
A great group of racers and one that supports each other.

[Rick Ross]

D.T. brings up a good point. Over time, the Zetec FC is actually probably cheaper to run than the FE due to lower parts costs (and longer engine life). So if you want a nice spec class with almost equal cars and good racing, go FE. Otherwise, a Zetec FC will be faster and cheaper to run, but with much more variation between the various FC cars on the grid. IMO both classes are good choices.

[Blair Robertshaw]

Why the big variation in cars on the respective grids? Obviously preparition is a factor but that said that's applicable in racing period, is it not? I am not meaning to be sarcastic here. Why such variation in FC cars and not FE cars?

[SStadel]

FC: Open Chassis - Piper, Van Diemen, Swift, Citation, etc.
Open Tires - Hoosier, Goodyear, Avon, etc.
Open Engine Builders - Quicksilver, Elite, Farley, Loyning, etc.
Open Modifications - Wings, uprights, diffusers, bodywork, etc.
Open Suspension - Wide track, narrow track, Fox, Penske, Dynamic shocks rebuilt and revalved by anybody
On and on

FE: Spec/sealed everything above and more

[Blair Robertshaw]

Thank you very much.