F1000 Manufacturers: I need a complete list!

[Rob Howden]

Hi folks,

We're wrapping up our overview on the F1000 program for the new issue of FormulaCar Magazine and I want to make sure that we have all the cuurent manufacturers of F1000 chassis. Please post a list of the cars that are currently being built.

We know of the Stohr, Phoenix, Citation, Gloria, Piper and Speads....what am I missing?

[VehDyn]

The maufacturers list on Sportscar a few months back listed West as well. But I haven't heard any more from them and there is nothing on their website.

Ian Ashdown is making one as well from Pacific Composites.

Ken

[rickjohnson356]

The 'O'Connell and the McBride....

Are these guys Scottish or Irish? (like Crossle???)

If their conversions go well, they might make kits.... (for the Hatheway car)

[Rob Howden]

OK...here's what I have so far. Am I missing anyone?

Citation
Pacific Motorsports
Phoenix
Piper
Speads
Stohr
West

RH - FCM

[Richard Dziak]

Rob:

Once the article is written how can we get a copy?

or

subscription?

[IDSRacing]

Richard,

dont limit yourself to this article, get a subscription. Its only $30 for the whole year.....worth every penny!

http://www.formulacarmag.com/

Ian

[Stan Clayton]

Rob, Brian Utt at Carbir assured me he would have a car on track this year. Stan

[Richard Dziak]

Thanks Ian....will order subscription this weekend.

I am excited about being part of the F1000 class for 2007

[Rob Howden]

Rob, Brian Utt at Carbir assured me he would have a car on track this year. Stan

Nice...I love the Carbir FC...

I'll try to dig out Brian's card to call him tomorrow. Time is of the essense...this is a real journalistic deadline crisis. Time to brew another pot of java!

RH
www.eformulacarnews.com

[jtspitler]

Rob,

Paragon Racing Developments is currently working on one, that will be out mid summer.

They are looking for drivers for the ARRC.

Keep up the good work, Rob!!!

Jay

[RussMcB]

<snip> and the McBride.... <snip>

Thanks, Rick, but PLEASE do not include me in this list (for a lot of reasons). :-).

[Rob Howden]

Rob,

Paragon Racing Developments is currently working on one, that will be out mid summer.

They are looking for drivers for the ARRC.

Keep up the good work, Rob!!!

Jay

Hi Jay,

Can you provide me with some contact information?

[SSR Engineering]

Scuderia Shadetree Racing working on F1000, should be testing the frist week in June.

Allen

[willpelton]

Here is a good question, with all these potential manufacturers why do we on this forum only hear from Stohr and Phoenix? Matt Conrad has done a great job keeping everyone up to date on his car. We know a bit about the Stohr from various post. Stohr Cars North America has a website that I wish they would put some effort into but I assume they are busy selling and prepping cars. I plan to buy an F1000 this year and I think ALL the manufacturers should make a showing on this site and they should be quick about it. There are going to be lot's of folks dropping $40k on these cars and I for one would like to know what I have to choose from and how much it's going to cost me in spares. That was a hint for Stohr Cars N.A. to post a parts price list on their site. You too Mr. Conrad when the time comes and your car is done.

[RussMcB]

Will, sounds like you want to make sure you get a copy of the upcoming FormulaCar issue. :-).

IMO, if I were in your shoes and getting ready to spend $40,000+, I'd want to do as much personal due diligence as possible, and hope to end up with a competitive advantage. If all F1000 manufacturers published every piece of information you wanted, then even the laziest person has access to it. On the other hand, without published info, you have the opportunity to contact them all and get the info you need to make your decision. Perhaps that's a selfish POV, but I can't think of many racers who wouldn't want to be one of few to own the best car in a class.

[RobLav]

Russ makes some good points. And you can also put together some very good kits for about 2/3 that $40K price if you are willing to do the work and scrounge around for parts.

Do your due diligence (sounds like a new song...)

[Richard Dziak]

Will:

Both Rob and Russ make some good points, especially reference the due diligence. I would guess that the FormulaCar magazine will be helpful in determining who will be the main builders, won't focus on individual people who are in the process of conversions, and will be generic in nature.

In your case, since you want to buy a newly manufactured F1000 this year, you need to contact each of the main build teams in this field. I for one, have made my decision, after just a few manufacturers have come forward in this new class. In another post here on ApexSpeed, I stated that I had contacted the major build teams who are the current players. I asked questions, sent e-mails. Some responded and some did not. For those that never responded, they were quickly eliminated from my list of dealers in F1000 car building. Since I knew I was NOT going to convert my RF93 Van Diemen F2000, and I was going to lay out $42,000 + I wanted answers. First I sold my RF93 to a young racer who wanted to enter the fun of formula race car driving. Then the final decision was made. I literally bombarded Matt Conrad at Phoenix with hundreds of questions. The reason? Matt was always there to follow thru on questions, while others did not. Matt was there to answer them quickly, whether they were very basic, stupid or technical questions. He was very upfront, and I really put the Phoenix build team under scrutiny. I was very critical. I was impressed with his straight forward nature of the progress of his project over at Phoenix on ApexSpeed and that was a big plus. Phoenix did not get specific as to every part that went into the build, and I couldn't expect that. If you research closely the two major build teams, which I consider Stohr and Phoenix, did respond with the list of major componets that go into their build. Phoenix continued the dialogue while others faded away. Bottom line I choose Phoenix for the efforts that they made to the buyer, and have ordered a new Phoenix F1K-07. Matt is close to finishing his prototype, and has already decided to make some changes in the construction of my turnkey car. He has updated me, on every step of the build. He was gone out of his way to continue to answer questions. Most of my parts for my build have arrived at Phoeniz and Matt has updated me weekly. So its been a great experience and for me, I think I have choosen the best. Phoenix will provide me with a construction manual of the car, and list of every part and the source of each part so I may have that in the future for spares. There has been allot of communication between Phoenix and myself. It's been a fantastic experience. I have no doubt that Phoenix and the build team there, with a aerospace engineer behind the car, will build me one of the best. At present Stohr has 15 cars sold, their cars are already out on the track, so they get the spotlight now, so they are considered the leaders....Phoenix is close behind in testing their car soon.....then it's a competitive push and feedback from the car owners of what they feel about their respective brands.

So Will, ask the questions, ask lots of them, if you are really going to spend $40,000 plus as you stated, don't look for build teams to come to you, you must go to them, and make sure you really understand what you are getting. Buying the car and racing it is one aspect of the purchase. The other is the relationship that you build with the build team and that particiular builder. Stohr and Phoenix can give you a good idea of whats going into the car, other than that, its up to you to pry and ask questions, questions, and see who does the best job in handling all your needs. For me, my choice was Phoenix, and it was the only choice in the end. Once I get the car delivered, which Phoenix will deliver personally, I will report back here on ApexSpeed my thoughts. I am not a championship driver, but was out to get a state of the art F1000 Formula race car to have fun, and then be competitive. And to me, at this level of racing that's what is all about.

[Matt Conrad]

Richard....Thanks again for your kind words...

Will....parts pricing will be released very soon. Check your e-mail.

There's a few good points about due diligence and we've been working on some ideas for new pricing for our roller offering because a few customers have said that in their search our pricing was higher than our competition.....and I was a bit surprised.... but I think it has to do with comparing apples to oranges...

First, I'd like to remind everyone that our "Roller" comes with a few standard items that we feel are extremely important for the class and did not want them to be optional...as they will be on other cars...

1. Front and rear dual-element wing package (Pennon). Everybody wants to compare to other series, etc. so look around and find me a top-notch car in FC, FA, Indy, CART, F3, F1 that is running single element wings on the front and the upper rear of the car...there may be a few, but I doubt many.
2. Double-Adjustable Penske 8100 shocks. We provide a good basic shock package which gives the buyer both Bump and Rebound adjustability at a fairly affordable price.
3. Anti-Roll Bar assemblies for the front and rear of the car. Again, we want to give the customer the maximum ability to adjust the car and even offer an upgrade for the adjustment to be made from the cockpit. Most every competitive car and series gives the driver this option.

Second, here's a number that you can use to compare our car against the competition.....$27,900. That would be a "Roller" Phoenix F1K-07 with single element front wings, no ARB assemblies, and non-adjustable custom-valved shocks. For the other specifications (always subject to change) on our car you can go here.

We can offer the car like this, but we are pretty sure you'll need the upgrades we listed above to be competitive. Truthfully, we're a small manufacturer and we are very focused on our customers....we'll configure the car however you want it...in fact....I'm sending a quote right now to someone that would like the "Roller" car with no shocks and no wings....they already have some 4-ways that will fit and they have a friend that has some different wings they'd like to try. That car will be offered at less than $27K.

FYI....Testing of the new Phoenix F1K-07 is scheduled to begin within the next 30 days and we're really looking forward to finally getting to the track. The real George Dean prepped GSX-R1000 engine is already installed and we're now plumbing up the dry sump. We've also installed the fuel cell and mounted the aluminum panels. The fire bottle and battery are in as we're readying the cockpit to pour my BeadSeat tonight. I'll try to get some new images up by the weekend.

Matt Conrad
Phoenix Race Works, LLC

[RussMcB]

Some new F1000 cars come without F & R ARB? I kinda assumed that was part of a modern formula car, but I could be out of touch. Do they have something else that accomplishes the same thing?

[Matt Conrad]

Russ,

The Stohr chassis does not have an ARB adjustment and the spec sheet I have shows it comes standard with non-adjustable shocks and all pictures show single element wings.

If I'm incorrect I'm sure they'll correct me....

Matt Conrad
Phoenix Race Works, LLC

[VehDyn]

Neither the Stohr F1000 nor the WF1 have ARBs standard or optional.

[Rennie Clayton]

Russ,

Lee's cars do not use anti-roll bars at the front or rear. He does use other means of controlling roll, but they are not driver adjustable, nor are they immediately obvious in a mechanical sense.


Matt,

I knew this picture would come in handy some day:




I think that leaves the count at approximately "1" for successful FA level cars that run without multi-element wings in the past few years...


Cheers,
Rennie

[RussMcB]

Lee's cars do not use anti-roll bars at the front or rear. He does use other means of controlling roll, but they are not driver adjustable, nor are they immediately obvious in a mechanical sense.

Neat. Any chance someone could describe how they work? I wonder what the problem is with ARB's that would warrant a better idea.

Not really expecting an answer, but no harm in asking, right? :-)

[Matt Conrad]

Rennie,

Are those the same wings you were running before your attempted "take-off"? Or were those your spares? It's hard to tell because I think there's three different paint schemes going on there....

Matt Conrad
Phoenix Race Works, LLC

[Stan Clayton]

Matt, IIRC the front wing was borrowed from Bob Ferstl...

[Mike Devins]

Rennie,

Would using 1200 lbs springs and a .93 to 1.0 motion ratio resulting in a 5 to 1 ratio of corner weight to wheel rate be considered the Lee"s approach to anti-roll?

Mike Devins

[Matt Conrad]

Rennie,

If anyone doesn't know, the car in question (and Rennie too) was involved in a spectacular crash at Mid-Ohio during the Runoffs(2003?) where Rennie took to the air as if to fly home, but caught the catch fence and a "few" telephone poles as well. I didn't see it but heard about it many times.

You know all those motivational posters that hang on many office walls.....the ones with a word like Challenge, Inspiration, Ambition, etc.....well there should be one with the picture of that car crossing the finish line (with the win) and the word "Perseverance" under it.

Matt Conrad
Phoenix Race Works, LLC

[Purple Frog]

Pare and company can jump in. But the stiffer the car in terms of springs and contact patch/wheel rates, the less needed is the ARB.

If you only have 1/2" of total wheel movement....

ICP used to give these neat two day suspension classes... Since they aren't available, catch DaveW's presentation at NEOhio seminar.

[Rennie Clayton]

Rennie,

If anyone doesn't know, the car in question (and Rennie too) was involved in a spectacular crash at Mid-Ohio during the Runoffs(2003?) where Rennie took to the air as if to fly home, but caught the catch fence and a "few" telephone poles as well. I didn't see it but heard about it many times.

You know all those motivational posters that hang on many office walls.....the ones with a word like Challenge, Inspiration, Ambition, etc.....well there should be one with the picture of that car crossing the finish line (with the win) and the word "Perseverance" under it.

Matt Conrad
Phoenix Race Works, LLC

The running joke at the Runoffs was that I got 6 poles in that qualifying session... here's what the car looked like before the wreck. That front wing was gangbusters before I cracked it up - it was our own design, and unfortunately we didn't have enough time leading up to the Runoffs to fab a spare.




When we dust off the Ralt to go run FA again, the first order of business will be to make up a couple new sets of our front wing assembly. Loads of downforce and drastically reduced pitch sensitivity. We might even be convinced to make more if there were some interest out there...


Cheers,
Rennie