Conversion costs

[Mike Devins]

Richard asked this question in the general discussion area:

"Perhaps if there is anyone converting a FC to F1000, they could shed some light on costs and time, vs. buying a new state of the art, F1000 from manufactuers like Stohr, Phoenix, Gloria, West etc

I have answered your question here so that we did not hijack the other thread.

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Richard,

The first savings when doing a conversion is for the person who can do some of the work them selves the second comes from a readily available set of spares.

In most cases when you convert an existing car you already have an inventory of spares. When you add up the cost of a good spares package - uprights, a-arms, calipers, hi and low DF wings ....... - the $$$ are definitely something that needs to be considered. In addition you will need to have a couple of extra sets of wheels. $$$. If you have run the car in FC there is also the advantage of set up experience for you and your team.

So a turn key car from Matt or Lee is not the end of the story there are still more costs to be ready to go racing.

Now for the good news with a "new" car - everything is new! No residual frame damage - new rod ends at every corner, new shocks, new wheel bearing…….. No DNF’s because that 10 year old part finally gave up the ghost.

I believe strongly in the idea of converting a good used FC but I am also the guy who has to have my hands into everything that I do.

As for the cost of having someone else do the conversion - you could easily spend $20 to $25K plus the cost of the donor car if you wanted to have a prep shop do "EVERYTHING" including the SCCA paperwork, deliver the car to the track and have it look like a new car when i got there.

So go high end or you converted RF95:

$13K for a really nice car with a great spares package and a data system
$25K for the prep shop

$38K invested and now go sell the Hewland, engine, bell housing, old engine cover..... and put $5k+ back into our pocket

Complete car with spares package for less than $33K. If you do the labor you can easily be under 20K even if you have someone else do the frame conversion.

Now if you want to do a RF2000 with wide track suspension add another $10K for the donor car.

From my experience with the converted FC's that we have done for DSR the secret is not to try to shave cost on the donor car. If the engine is blown so what but look for a car with a great spares package that was not driven hard and put away wet, well maintained and never had a major wreck. If you do get a running engine make sure that it came from a reputable builder with history or you will have a hard time selling it.

Good luck which ever way you decide to go.

I would like to hear from Sean and Russ and get their thoughts on this as well.


Mike Devins

[RussMcB]

That all sounds fine to me.

For me, there really was no option. If I wanted an F1000 car, it had to be a $20,000 investment or less.

I bought my RF94 for around $10,500 - a little rough but basically a good car. I think I've recouped about $6,000 from the Pinto, trans and other bits I wont use.

My 2005 ZX-10 ebay engine was $1,400 after shipping. Dry Sump, transaxle, and harness mods will be about $4,600.

If you do the math above, You'll see I'm near a break even point ($10,500).

Costs I don't know about yet:
- Frame changes
- shifter & clutch linkage
- fuel system
- chain
- Header/muffler
- Body work

... plus I'm sure there will be plenty of unexpected surprises along the way.

It looks like I'll be WELL under $20,000, and I'll have some satisfaction from having done a lot myself, learning along the way. It will certainly add to my satisfaction if I'm able to be somewhat competitive with people spending 2-3 (4?) times more for their cars.

I may run some national level races, but don't have aspirations to do well at that level. As long as I'm consistently beating Sean, I'll be happy. Shouldn't be too tough. :-).

[sidney]

We're in a similar situation to Russ. We bought a '97 Tatuus with a buch of '99 updates for about $13k. I say about, because we bought a trailer in the deal too.

We've sold off the LD, Engine, dash, headers and a few other odds and ends that we didn't need for a total of about $7k. I'd sell the bell housing, but haven't had the right person ask the right price for it.

The diff we plan to use is cheap, but functional. The motor is a Yamaha R1 off eBay for $1500 (including shipping). I figure we need to spend another $1k for the wire harness (something we will outsource) and the dash assembly/data logger (Thanks for the dash Sean O.).

The structure will be done by us, and so we have design, fabrication and materials all wrapped into a $500 ball, or so I guess. This obviously doesn't count the sweat equity.

I would guess we have another $3-4k in additional investment that we will try to hide from the accounting departments (wives). This includes rod ends, fastners, fuel pump, chain, sprocket, diff bearings, wet sump baffle, and the list goes on and on.

In the end, if you add it all up we will be out less than $14k, and have a modern car with hopefully a fairly competitive package. I say modern, because our last car was an FV.

The best part is...we will be racing again!

[Matt Conrad]

Russ,

I can't really help you with the costs for your chassis work and body work, but here's some info on the rest....

Shifter....You might be able to use the existing shift lever and adapt it to a cable set up without much trouble.....I forget how that was done on my FC.....You'll need cable stops welded to hold the push-pull cable at both ends, but the cable itself should only be around $75 at the most....and even if you can't use the existing lever, these motors shift fairly easily and a simple lever setup should work fine.

Fuel System....the Kawasaki may not even need an external regulator, so you may only need new lines, a FI pump, and fittings). Probably less than $500 w/regulator.

Chain....$160 for a good one rated at 10,000psi. We use the DID 530 ZVM.

Header/Muffler....I'd buy an off the shelf steel unit from S & S and make mods if needed. They make them for the dwarf car guys and sometimes have right and left exits. I don't know if any of the units I have here fit a ZX10...I'll check. Look to Coast Fab for a good stainless muffler that has passed sound. Probably less than $400 for the off-the-shelf stuff plus any fab work and coating.....speaking of which...I'd also Jet Hot 2000 the header when you are done....we burnt the 1300 degree stuff off in short order.

And like Mike said.....it's that cheap labor rate (DIY) that will keep you under budget.

Matt Conrad
Phoenix Race Cars, Inc.