Banjo fittings (brakes) question

[BLS]

Not sure where to put this, so try it here. If mods think it needs to be moved feel free... Thanks.

I *thought* I understood the banjo fittings. Tonight I went to screw in the double banjo bolt (AN3) fitting from my old caliper (Wilwood) to my new Tilton 78 and discover the Tilton has a much shallower fitting depth by 1/4+ inch and this fitting doesn't work. On my fitting under the head to the end is 38mm approximately. Goodridge has a bolt that states it is 38mm. I see online two sizes available, 31mm and 40mm or 30 and 39. But I also look at the Pegasus website and it seems the shorter fittings are for a narrower banjo fitting, which then have a dimension (I assume) that fits that, not less thread length.

I've searched online for an explanation but come up empty. I cannot be the only clueless person

If anyone understands what it is I need please let me know. I'm at a loss and cannot find any explanation. I have emailed Tilton to see what they say and I'm sure they will reply but their website has nothing regarding this.

Thanks,
Barry

[Fred Michael]

There are two (that I know of) different widths of banjo fittings and they require a different banjo bolt, whether using as a single or a double. You will need to find the correct combination and also the correct thickness washers. Can't help with the specific master cylinders as I don't know exactly what you have

[BLS]

Thanks Fred.
I have what is the "standard" banjo thickness and know there is another and it requires the correct bolt to match. I received a reply from Tilton which doesn't clarify much other than they provided "measures 8.13 mm from the top of the barrel to the bottom of the taper", so the threaded portion must be less than that and no one seems to give specs on the banjo bolt other than total length.
I'll just have to order the shorter ones I suppose and see what they are. Don't mind the cost as much as paying the shipping

[BeerBudgetRacing]

I'll just have to order the shorter ones I suppose and see what they are. Don't mind the cost as much as paying the shipping

Sometimes it's cheaper to go to some place like summit and order 3 or 4 different 'try' pieces because the shipping ends up being the same for 1 or 4.

I think I have a variety of double banjo bolts now. Maybe someday I'll find a use !

[DaveW]

I've had to modify ones I bought and even make some unique ones for odd banjo setups. I've found that buying a single correct piece from anyone is a crap-shoot.

[10rmotor]

I've run into this problem a few times. Since a fair amount of my "updates" are spur of the moment changes (read: I don't have quite the correct part) I've had to modify the banjo bolt length to get the correct fit. I just chuck up the bolt in the lathe and face it off to get the right length needed, file the threads a bit and countersink the hole. Done.

Make sure you have an aluminum crush washer on either side of the banjo fitting before sizing!

[BLS]

Thanks for the reply's everyone. I guess I just got lucky my first time using them as I had no issue. The problem is there because Tilton chooses to make the threads and depth of the hole too short, Vs Wilwood that has depth and threading long enough to handle the (semi) "standard" length.

10rmotor, that's a good suggestion although I don't have a lathe. I've had good success using the Dremel with a thin cutoff blade, so maybe I'll try that first.

Thanks again, at least I know it's not something I'm missing other than a bit of knowledge...

[Charles Warner]

I've found at least 4 different thicknesses and shapes of banjo fittings, with varying size passages and thread requirements. in both alloy and brass. There are also differing diameters of the step at the top of the bolt under the head, ergo different size washers.

Best is to contact a specialist in aerospace fittings with the dimensions you need. Malone Specialty, Skygeek, Spruce, Wicks.

Thanks for the reply's everyone. I guess I just got lucky my first time using them as I had no issue. The problem is there because Tilton chooses to make the threads and depth of the hole too short, Vs Wilwood that has depth and threading long enough to handle the (semi) "standard" length.

10rmotor, that's a good suggestion although I don't have a lathe. I've had good success using the Dremel with a thin cutoff blade, so maybe I'll try that first.

Thanks again, at least I know it's not something I'm missing other than a bit of knowledge...

[BLS]

I could use a tee, but there is no guarantee what direction the lines will orient when it is tight, thus the reason for the banjo...

[10rmotor]

Thanks for the reply's everyone. I guess I just got lucky my first time using them as I had no issue. The problem is there because Tilton chooses to make the threads and depth of the hole too short, Vs Wilwood that has depth and threading long enough to handle the (semi) "standard" length.

10rmotor, that's a good suggestion although I don't have a lathe. I've had good success using the Dremel with a thin cutoff blade, so maybe I'll try that first.

Thanks again, at least I know it's not something I'm missing other than a bit of knowledge...

If you don't have a lathe, you probably at least have a drill press that is big enough to grab it. Just spin it in that and use the dremel or a cutoff wheel. Or just stick it in the vise and cut it, its not a big deal if the end isn't square, just that it threads in the master cylinder boss without issue. The washers are what make the seal.

[BLS]

If you don't have a lathe, you probably at least have a drill press that is big enough to grab it. Just spin it in that and use the dremel or a cutoff wheel. Or just stick it in the vise and cut it, its not a big deal if the end isn't square, just that it threads in the master cylinder boss without issue. The washers are what make the seal.

Thanks, understood. The only problem I ever had with cutting off a bolt is starting it can sometimes be iffy. But using the Dremel with the very thin cutoff wheel seems to be nearly perfect. I do just stick it in the vise. Hadn't thought about using the drill press, might give that a try...

Barry

[Charles Warner]

Thanks, understood. The only problem I ever had with cutting off a bolt is starting it can sometimes be iffy. But using the Dremel with the very thin cutoff wheel seems to be nearly perfect. I do just stick it in the vise. Hadn't thought about using the drill press, might give that a try...

Barry

Before you cut, thread a nut down past the cut point. You can use the edge of the nut as a guide to keep the saw straight. After cutting hit the high spots of the cut with a wheel and unthread the nut.

[DaveW]

Before you cut, thread a nut down past the cut point. You can use the edge of the nut as a guide to keep the saw straight. After cutting hit the high spots of the cut with a wheel and unthread the nut.

Double-nut if possible so it doesn't move...

[jkrt125]

I've run into this problem a few times. Since a fair amount of my "updates" are spur of the moment changes (read: I don't have quite the correct part) I've had to modify the banjo bolt length to get the correct fit. I just chuck up the bolt in the lathe and face it off to get the right length needed, file the threads a bit and countersink the hole. Done.

Make sure you have an aluminum crush washer on either side of the banjo fitting before sizing!

Aluminum is ok, annealed copper crush washers are better. Banjos are a PITA, but try to think about it as a "sandwich" ie. Thickness of the banjo fitting plus your two crush washers=fitting width

Fitting width divided by 2=center line of the fitting "stack"

Now the trick is to find a vendor that have the bolt with the under head to center line measurement you need (no not all manufacturers do this as they have a washer thickness in mind for their "assembly"), ideally the thread length will match up with what you need for your application, but, the threads are the easiest to manipulate.

[BLS]

"You can use the edge of the nut as a guide..."

I've often threaded on a nut to help straighten the threads after cutting but never thought to use the nut as a guide. Thanks for the tip!

I do have copper crush washers and I keep spares.

Thanks for the information. Something I thought was standard and dead simple turns out to be whacko

It's clear that I'll have to cut threads to fit the Tilton and be careful matching the hole in the bolt to something close to the centerline of th banjo. Mine are fine now and cutting thread off doesn't effect that.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

I do have copper crush washers and I keep spares.

Don't know if it's been mentioned but the washers do come in different thicknesses. Many don't state the thickness.

[BLS]

Don't know if it's been mentioned but the washers do come in different thicknesses. Many don't state the thickness.

Did not know that, thanks! I don't see any that specify the thickness...

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Did not know that, thanks! I don't see any that specify the thickness...

I did a search on Summit and found a few that stated 1.0mm and some at 1.2mm and some at .045in, etc. in the description.
Most do not state at all.

You can't search for that. You basically need to page through.

[BLS]

I did a search on Summit and found a few that stated 1.0mm and some at 1.2mm and some at .045in, etc. in the description.
Most do not state at all.

You can't search for that. You basically need to page through.

Thanks! After reading your comment I did go out and found that some did specify the thickness and I just missed it.

I'll just get all the parts here, measure, then cut to length as needed. The shallow Tilton receptacle creates the problem.

Barry