New Person Question - Running Costs?
I am looking at a 2002 car. Trying to determine costs outside of tires. Specifically suspension. Yesterday I looked at a Formula Mazda from the 90’s. Robust construction. Relatively easy to work on. Suspension components were not too expensive.
How often are the suspension components replaced? I would think shocks would last a very long time. Thank you for any input.
If you don't crash suspensions last a very long time. Rod ends get inspected and replaced occasionally. On the FM they are really robust. Your biggest concern in my opinion with the FM is engine costs... seal replacement ,etc. Research that. The engines if not over heated had a history of having longer life than pinto engines in FC.
In the heyday of FM racing my memory was FM racers had to work less in the paddock during the weekend. Robust cars.
Thank you for the reply. As I understand you, the suspension can last years? I don’t really don’t want a car that is not a robust car. In other words, a fragile car. Not really in the “fun” budget unfortunately. I have looked at suspension components, the price adds up fast.
I am interested in having a car for lap days and eventually race. Thank you again for your time. I have been doing too much tire kicking. I want to get a formula car or a start building a Boxster or Cayman.
My experience: Its cheaper to repair a formula car after an "off" than a Cayman.
Smaller trailer needed. Smaller tow vehicle needed.
YMMV
most expensive things in the suspension are the shocks. Inboard suspension car - less of an opportunity to tear up the shocks in a crash.
The suspension on my '94 dates from 99 or so. More than a hundred weekends on it.
OBTW, for most small formula cars, figure ~$1500/hr operating costs (entry, tow gas, race gas, tires, and amortized engine and gearbox re-builds - no crash damage). More if you do new tires every weekend.
Originally Posted by Purple Frog
Not to mention, the cost of any Porsche engine is more than an entire FM car, or many FC cars.
Greg Holmberg did a fairly exhaustive analysis of the operating costs for most of the club level formula classes. FC discussion is here: https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/sho...rational-costs
Mike Beauchamp
RF95 Prototype 2
Get your FIA rain lights here:
www.gyrodynamics.net/product/cartek-fia-rain-light/
I have a Pro Mazda, which is one step up from a FM. I only use it for track days at Willow Springs during the cooler months. I’ve had the car for 3 years and haven’t spent any money on suspension parts. I’ve ran 6-7 track days on the same set of tires, and am probably good for one more track day on them. Fuel is $10 a gallon, with $20 spent on a bottle of 2 stroke oil also. I use 10-12 gallons of fuel each track day before I’m exhausted and stop driving and go talk to the other drivers and just hang out. The track entry fee is about $240 per day with Open Track Racing.
Im not that fast, and dont want to wreck my car, but damn I have a great time on the track days.
If you’re contemplating getting a FM, I’d say do it.
When you start racing it, plan of spending 10 times your track day budget for new tires every couple races and damage that will occur from “rubbing” on another car, or outright crashing or getting crashed into.
If you wreck the car there is no formula car robust enough and if you don't wreck it they are all just fine. So, want a car that's robust,? then don't wreck it.
There are a few elements missing in this conversation. What do you want to do with a formula car? Do you want to do HPDE at a private club, by yourself? Do you want to enter local club races? Do you want to do hill climb? Do you want to enter a racing series and try to be competitive? What kind of formula cars are in your area? How far are you willing to tow to put the car on track?
I would think all of these things should weigh more heavily on your decision making than how much an A Arm costs.
I ran a PFM for a few years and FE before that. My math was very similar to Rick’s although I computed it as $15/mile. At speed averaging 100mph gets the same $1500/hr.
that was all-in including fees and travel. Admittedly I was getting tires for $10/ea at that time (takeoff scrubs)
My current car F3000 is not comparable.
Last edited by mikey; 07.31.24 at 11:23 PM.
You mentioned lapping days. You should check with whoever you plan on running with whether they allow formula cars. Some don't.
Sounds to me like you are a candidate for just renting an open wheel car. The biggest down side to rental is you must pay for the crash damage immediately instead of letting it sit for a few months. No need to invest heavily in transporting, tools and knowledge until you are ready to race. Plus, rentals will allow you to try different classes of cars helping your decision on which direction to go.
I would second checking who is running in your area (East coast ONT/QUE I assume) as its much easier to maintain cars if there is a built in local knowledge of guys running the same type of car.
Out west here BC/AB most are running VanDiemen FC's so that is the safe choice out our way.
Because SportsCar is no longer published, I don't know how others will come to know John Berget. So, I'll put in a plug for him.
For years he has sold reliable one-heat-cycle tires of many sizes at below new prices. 262 740 0180 JBRacingtires.net
Wow! I thought this was a very quiet forum. I am truly grateful for all the input. My philosophy would be simple. Do something like Extreme1 is doing.
1. Stop tire kicking and buy something.
2. Eventually a regional race, perhaps vintage. No need for a sealed engine/trans/ECU. Not sure I would need to race.
3. Hopefully tow with Ford Escape
4. Use take off tires - focus on fun, do my own maintenance.
I am impressed by the durability of the suspension.
Ford escape? Well, the old 4.0L I suppose, on an open trailer, without mountains.... The 4-banger, I wouldn't do it.
6 cyl Escape. In the past I had a trailer, did not like storing it. U-Haul, not attractive or sleek is very affordable. Would this work:
I am currently towing my car with a 2005 Ford Escape 3.0L V6 (sort of visible, attached to the trailer). A bit more engine and braking power would be nice, but it otherwise works well for me. If I were you, I would consider a longer trailer than 12ft, though.
Your car is one I am hoping to see. That is interesting. Escape? Funny. I may come to see your car if you are around this week - depending on my work/family. Thank you to all who contributed.
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