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  1. #481
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    Default News from the Sprints


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  3. #482
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    FF ZOOM meeting #9 tonight. I'd like to brainstorm the flier we discussed creating. Ian has a terrific start and it may already be done.

    (https://us05web.zoom.us/j/82013141123...))

    Meeting ID: 820 1314 1123

    Passcode: G5G7wm
    Thanks,

    Tony Stefanelli

  4. #483
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    OTOH, back when I went to my first drivers school (1973), and for the next several years, national races at Road Atlanta would draw a considerable crowd, 20-30K+ as I recall. They were entertained by racing during the day and spirits at night. While I never went, I have heard Watkins Glenn had huge crowds with entertainment provided both by racers and the offering of passenger buses to the "Bog"

    People spend a lot of money to watch racing.

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  6. #484
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    Default Call to FF action - tire rule change

    We are finalizing the idea and hopefully the wording of a FF tire rule change in the ZOOM call tomorrow night. We really hope to capture the wishes of this team. Please participate if you care about this topic. The ZOOM Address is now in the about section, but also here:

    https://us05web.zoom.us/j/82013141123?pwd=6fYy6kZCrpFsUTp9IyE2YweV8a3HBw.1

    Meeting ID: 820 1314 1123

    Passcode: G5G7wm
    Thanks,

    Tony Stefanelli

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  8. #485
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    Default ZOOM meeting tire proposal status

    I'm just finishing documenting the proposal for the ZOOM. Wanting to add this about the proposal: Its fully based on the comments on the Formula F USA Facebook page and on Apex Speed and the 30+ phone calls/emails we've gotten on the topic - and thank you to those who did share their ideas. The proposal is a culmination/combination/crashing together of those ideas, they are not mine. The Stefanelli family don’t care a bit what the final tire rule is, the choices are all good enough and we can dial the car into any of them. We want to avoid buying two sets per weekend if possible and you folks are saying exactly the same thing. So, this meeting is for you folks to make a final decision on what you can support. I honestly think you'll be pleasantly surprised how on the same page you folks are and how this can work. I'm also hoping your vibrating with curiosity and passion.
    Thanks,

    Tony Stefanelli

  9. #486
    Contributing Member RussMcB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideMore View Post
    <snip> We want to avoid buying two sets per weekend if possible. <snip>
    Yikes! People do that now (in amateur racing)?

  10. #487
    Senior Member Spengo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussMcB View Post
    Yikes! People do that now (in amateur racing)?
    I ran the same set all season last year except for the very last weekend. They weren't fast but they rolled.

  11. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussMcB View Post
    Yikes! People do that now (in amateur racing)?
    And folks are questioning why this sport is struggling.......

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  13. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatist View Post
    And folks are questioning why this sport is struggling.......
    This has nothing to do with why the sport is struggling. There has always been someone willing to spend more than you since the start of motor racing. This is not a new phenomenon.

    Brian

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  15. #490
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    Oh Get Real.

    Most *want to be* competitive.

    If they can’t afford to be, they race less, don’t even bother buying a car, or go fishing.

    That’s as obvious as it gets.
    Once we think we’ve mastered something, it’s over
    https://ericwunrow.photoshelter.com/index

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  17. #491
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    If the powers that be can't come up with a tire that makes buying two sets per weekend foolish then I stand by my statement.

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  19. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatist View Post
    If the powers that be can't come up with a tire that makes buying two sets per weekend foolish then I stand by my statement.
    The powers that be are the collective "you." I take it you'll be participating in tonight's session then?
    Peter Olivola
    (polivola@gmail.com)

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  21. #493
    Contributing Member stonebridge20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideMore View Post
    We want to avoid buying two sets per weekend if possible.
    Then mandate the VFF tire ONLY.

    I can assure you that anyone running the VFF isn't buying two sets per weekend.

    Hell, there's plenty that aren't buying two sets per season.
    Stonebridge Sports & Classics ltd
    15 Great Pasture Rd Danbury, CT. 06810 (203) 744-1120
    www.cryosciencetechnologies.com
    Cryogenic Processing · REM-ISF Processing · Race Prep & Driver Development

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  23. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by E1pix View Post
    Oh Get Real.

    Most *want to be* competitive.

    That’s as obvious as it gets.
    There is fast, and there is competitive. Rather than say spec, think of "control tire" .

    This will "control" how long the tire will last and most likely control how fast the cars will go.

    Famous line - speed costs money - how fast do you want to go?

    People who can afford to buy 2 sets of tires do not see the problem - they need to. They see this as their advantage.

    Are they part of the discussion? If not, then that is part of the problem.

    ChrisZ

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  25. #495
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    Agreed, Chris.

    Racing will always be “expensive.” But the term in of itself varies in definition over the entire grid, depending on personal finances.

    I have a saying, “Just because I can afford something doesn’t necessarily mean I should.”

    What’s rarely discussed is overall financial concerns today compared to the past. One, whether insured or not, all it takes is one serious medical incident to go bankrupt. This comes from personal experience, was not even a thought in past decades, and is very, very real.

    So if one has a half-million dollars of retirement — plenty of money atop social security if one can be frugal and survive on that — and can easily afford several seasons of racing, how comfortable is that person in risking a home to race? Not very, when costs are too high.

    Such matters are absolutely in the math that determines going racing. Budgets are budgets, and we all watch those. Consumables like tires seem like a no-brainer as a tipping point for jumping in.

    I admire anyone who succeeds in life when doing so with honor. I submit that those who can afford endless tires do so only because they can, if not out of genuine fear of getting soundly whooped by a great driver showing up with an open trailer.

    Fields could and would grow in leaps and bounds if ways can be found to make it affordable for the very same financial class that filled fields before. I know of at least three in my circle who would, myself included.
    Once we think we’ve mastered something, it’s over
    https://ericwunrow.photoshelter.com/index

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  27. #496
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    I agree with you too, except for one thing:

    Quote Originally Posted by E1pix View Post
    Agreed, Chris.

    I admire anyone who succeeds in life when doing so with honor. I submit that those who can afford endless tires do so only because they can, if not out of genuine fear of getting soundly whooped by a great driver showing up with an open trailer.
    I think as racers, if the rule allows it, we would be foolish to not do it. That is the choice with running in the SCCA. If the Skip Barber School Series was still running 1978 Crossle 32F's on Kleber radials, and everyone had equal cars, I might be still running it.

    There is a sense of accomplishment for using the rules to go faster. What is counter-intuitive is to make rules to protect us from ourselves. The cost caps in F1 and the spec parts in NASCAR are not to punish people, but to keep everyone in a competitive window. What killed the first CanAm was the unlimited development. If we roll the rules back in FF and FV, the question is, will we gain more people than we will lose?

    Ironically I came up against this in slot cars in 1975. Our Club had a CanAm type class and a Spec class. The spec class was cheaper, and a lot more fun, but it wasn't as exciting and thrilling as the open class. We overlooked that building, designing and testing a car is sometimes as important as racing.

    Since the spec tire came out in FV, there have been some people wanting to go back to a FASTER tire! The SCCA is not NASA or similar organization. They rely on us to be the adults in the room. Maybe we are getting to that point.

    ChrisZ

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  29. #497
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    i was not on the call, so I do not know what ideas have been discussed.

    I will say that the FC tire rule change a couple of years back that limits use to 1 set per weekend, 2 sets at the runoffs has worked pretty well.

    Downsides are requirement of tech to mark tires each weekend and it hurts in some ways because a competitor can't use 2 sets of older tires, i.e. an old set to get through qualifying, then a second old set to get through the race. A set must be good enough to last all sessions starting at qualifying. But It's easier to deal with that then new tires each session.

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  31. #498
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    Interesting how my comment about not wanting to buy two sets per weekend took off with wild guesses.

    Here's what it meant:

    I do not want a new tire rule that would result in buying two sets per weekend.

    Thank goodness todays tire rule delivers 8 fast sessions, 12 quite good sessions, and 20+ total sessions.

    So we use 8-12 session tires for practice, then sometimes those same or maybe under 8 session tires for qualy, then under 8 session tires for the race.

    So depending on who we are racing against, we get three to four weekends out of a set.

    in 2024 we did 22 races, including the Runoffs, plus six test days (28 days total) on 7 sets.

    Hope that sets the record straight
    Thanks,

    Tony Stefanelli

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