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  1. #1
    Classifieds Super License dsmithwc04's Avatar
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    Wanted To Buy Want to buy P1/P2 competitive platform

    I’ll make this short and sweet. Looking for a competitive P1 car. Let me know what you have via pm, reply to this post or email. Thanks!
    I race communist race cars.

    "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling, there are rules." - Walter Sobchak

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    How much money do you have? It better be a lot!

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    Classifieds Super License dsmithwc04's Avatar
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    What is “a lot”?

    Most WF1s I’m seeing are $45-55k. New is $115k or there abouts. My current budget wont allow brand new to be sure.
    I race communist race cars.

    "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling, there are rules." - Walter Sobchak

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    Contributing Member lowside67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsmithwc04 View Post
    What is “a lot”?

    Most WF1s I’m seeing are $45-55k. New is $115k or there abouts. My current budget wont allow brand new to be sure.
    Depends on your definition of competitive. If you want a WF1 that can win runoffs (aka one built to a spec like Lee Alexander's), there isn't a single one that has ever sold on the used market. There are good quality P1 cars, that are out of date, that have sold in the $45-55k range and they would certainly be fast and fun but would be several seconds off the pace at the truly most pointy end of the national grid.

    To take an older car and bring it up to spec, it'll need the newest Hurley/Zebulon aero parts (splitter, side skirts, wing) which is about $10k +/-. It'll need an unrepaired carbon body to have a chance of getting to minimum weight. It'll need either air shifting by Geartronics or Motec. It'll need a new generation 1L motor, fully built, along with a spare motor, and a rigorous refresh cycle. (None of the cars sold have this generation of motor - I think you're in for about $5-7.5k in switching costs, plus the cost of 2 motors, maybe $20-25k for the pair?

    That probably all sounds like a lot, but most of the grid you'll race against are in the DP02. The new bodywork and aero alone to update that car I believe is near $60k. Motor builds are double a WF1.

    Bottom line is P1 is a VERY steep place to play at the pointy end. But realistically even if you did write that check, it takes a team to run and set it up at a high level, a skilled driver, and a genuine commitment to excellence in every part of the program.

    Probably stuff you already know, but a reality check is always a good thing.

    -Mark
    Mark Uhlmann
    Vancouver, Canada
    '12 Stohr WF1

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  6. #5
    Classifieds Super License dsmithwc04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowside67 View Post
    Depends on your definition of competitive. If you want a WF1 that can win runoffs (aka one built to a spec like Lee Alexander's), there isn't a single one that has ever sold on the used market. There are good quality P1 cars, that are out of date, that have sold in the $45-55k range and they would certainly be fast and fun but would be several seconds off the pace at the truly most pointy end of the national grid.

    To take an older car and bring it up to spec, it'll need the newest Hurley/Zebulon aero parts (splitter, side skirts, wing) which is about $10k +/-. It'll need an unrepaired carbon body to have a chance of getting to minimum weight. It'll need either air shifting by Geartronics or Motec. It'll need a new generation 1L motor, fully built, along with a spare motor, and a rigorous refresh cycle. (None of the cars sold have this generation of motor - I think you're in for about $5-7.5k in switching costs, plus the cost of 2 motors, maybe $20-25k for the pair?

    That probably all sounds like a lot, but most of the grid you'll race against are in the DP02. The new bodywork and aero alone to update that car I believe is near $60k. Motor builds are double a WF1.

    Bottom line is P1 is a VERY steep place to play at the pointy end. But realistically even if you did write that check, it takes a team to run and set it up at a high level, a skilled driver, and a genuine commitment to excellence in every part of the program.

    Probably stuff you already know, but a reality check is always a good thing.

    -Mark
    Thanks for the post Mark. I appreciate the input and am on an ongoing search for my next move. More information is always a good thing!
    I race communist race cars.

    "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling, there are rules." - Walter Sobchak

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    Quote Originally Posted by dsmithwc04 View Post
    What is “a lot”?

    Most WF1s I’m seeing are $45-55k. New is $115k or there abouts. My current budget wont allow brand new to be sure.
    Then you'll need to figure out which group you want to be competitive in, and it won't be the pointy end of the field. Perhaps a p2 car is a better choice?

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    Classifieds Super License dsmithwc04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10rmotor View Post
    Then you'll need to figure out which group you want to be competitive in, and it won't be the pointy end of the field. Perhaps a p2 car is a better choice?
    This seams like a fair assessment. I’m reading up on the rules to see the big differences between the two. Curious if a decent P1 has potential to be a competitive P2 car or if it scales in than mannor. I can’t help from observing the fields in FE2 are still as strong as when I was running just prior to the update from the 2.3L.

    If I want competition on a reasonable budget then I might have to do it in a slower car. Decisions, decisions….
    I race communist race cars.

    "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling, there are rules." - Walter Sobchak

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    Quote Originally Posted by dsmithwc04 View Post
    If I want competition on a reasonable budget then I might have to do it in a slower car. Decisions, decisions….
    It will be a few seconds slower, but compared to just about any other class in SCCA it will still be fast. Go look at what a competitive GT1 car does for laptimes!

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    There is a 2020 Wolf on bat this week.

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    Senior Member Farrout48's Avatar
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    Most WF1s can go either to P1 or P2. The major differences are in the wings, diffuser, floor, and shifter. The cost to move into top tier P1 or P2 may differ on what configuration the car is currently in. The current trend is to have a recent 1L engine because they have more stock HP and run at a reasonable weight. To upgrade to the recent 1L takes an engine, wiring harness, exhaust, airbox, and the skill to do the installation. Many cars still have the Busa but it runs at a heavier P2 weight. The 2008 GSXRs are still good but are becoming harder to find.

    If you find a good WF1 in P2 configuration, buy it. Learn how to drive it and to trust the downforce. Changing out wings and front splitter are good incremental changes. The early WF1s had an engine cover design that was inefficient and was redesigned pretty quickly. The newer CF bodies have the more efficient design.

    There is as much competition in the P2 ranks as there is in the P1 ranks. P1 is a bit faster but you will only be able to tell the difference on the timesheet not with your butt in the car.
    Craig Farr
    Stohr WF1 P2

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  14. #11
    Contributing Member lowside67's Avatar
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    Craig is right on that there are more ways to be competitive in P2, and an older car is closer to competitive out of the box. In my opinion, with the latest round of changes to the BoP - the 2008 GSXR 1000 might actually be the best P2 motor, and certainly is close to the best, where in P1, there's no doubt at all that a fully built newest generation 1L is the only configuration of Stohr that has a chance these days.

    To take an "original" Stohr WF1 and make it P2 legal though does require a few mods, at least if you want to be at the front of the pack.

    First, the original DSR floor is not legal for P2 aero rules. So you'll need to design and install "blockers" at minimum, or at best, a new floor/diffuser package which is legal. Then, depending on which brakes are on the car, you may need to replace with 2-piece calipers for legality. You could in theory take the original wing, remove the flap, and run it legally in P2, but you'd be down on performance a fair bit over the newest Hurley/Zebulon front diffuser and P2 wing package.

    I loved my car in "P1.5" configuration - P1 aero/shifting/brakes, P2 engine cost and reliability. But admittedly this is not a competitive road race package, and is where most "stock" original Stohrs would fall these days. I think looking at my lap times and performance figures, a fully legal best of breed P2 car probably wouldn't have been any slower than my P1.5 car, but it was more cost effective to leave it as it sits.

    The reason I say that is if you aren't likely to win runoffs, the move is definitely to buy an original WF1, and run it in P1 with its current engine and aero package. Monster car, super fun, very fast, and regionally probably still competitive. A great place to start.

    -Mark
    Mark Uhlmann
    Vancouver, Canada
    '12 Stohr WF1

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  16. #12
    Classifieds Super License dsmithwc04's Avatar
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    Are the Hayabusa 1441 worth the weight cost? Seams like it is.
    I race communist race cars.

    "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling, there are rules." - Walter Sobchak

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