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Thread: Is P2 dead?

  1. #1
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    Default Is P2 dead?

    Anyone know what happened to all the P2 guys?

    Last year we had decent numbers. This year I think I might be the only p2 driver who has turned a lap in the northeast conference. I was the only one at Summit Point. Nobody went to vir. I was signed up for pittrace but nobody else was going so I cancelled. Same with Pocono. Now looking at Watkins glen hst in 2 weeks and no p2s there either.

    If anyone is willing to come to the glen and race please let me know otherwise I guess I will skip that one too. Not worth the money on my budget to run by myself.

    I thought P2 was growing and then all of a sudden it disappeared. Does anyone know what's going on? Should I just buy a Miata and get used to going slow?

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    Well we know all the P2 guys didn't move to FC.

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    Senior Member rockbeau25's Avatar
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    There are 12 registered for the June Sprints.
    Van Diemen RF99 FC

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    Senior Member 924RACR's Avatar
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    ...and we had 5 runners (not just entries!) at Mud-O the other weekend...

    Very regionally specific... the FA turnout for Sprints is amazing, and I'm glad we're in a different group!

    We'll have 12 each in P1 and P2... 17 FAs...
    Vaughan Scott
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    Contributing Member lowside67's Avatar
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    It seems like a lot of the higher end classes are doing fewer if any local races but a fair number will show for big marquee events such as June Sprints.

    I suppose it makes a little sense to me as the costs and effort to run is so high, a lot of guys are reducing the number of weekends per year they race, and so majors and super tours are better chances of competition for their money.

    -Mark
    Mark Uhlmann
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    '12 Stohr WF1

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    RA is a bit of a hike for me, but I'll start looking at some more races in OH and MI. Vaughan if you are going to mid Ohio any particular time please let me know.

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    Senior Member 924RACR's Avatar
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    Cheers; we usually try to make the Mid-O Majors with the P2, and sometimes get the 924 to the Divisionals.

    Jack Baruth is also local there, usually runs those races...

    I desperately want to get back to Pitt, just as much as I desperately want them to move the race from winter to spring...
    Vaughan Scott
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    Looks like there are four -- FOUR! -- P2 cars for the May Majors at Mid-Ohio.

    I have to decide whether I want to get my old carbureted stock-Busa Radical stomped by you guys in P2, or whether I want to run my SR8 in GTX against tin-tops.

    Leaning towards supporting our class and letting the GTX fellows have a decent race, even if that means I come in DFL.
    Jack Baruth
    2006 Radical PR6 -- SCCA P2 #31
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    Global Moderator Mike B's Avatar
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    There are EIGHT P2s registered for the Blackhawk Majors on May 4-5.
    Mike Beauchamp
    RF95 Prototype 2

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  14. #10
    Senior Member 924RACR's Avatar
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    Should have at least one more P2 signing up for Mud-O...
    Vaughan Scott
    #77 ITB/HP Porsche 924
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    If I can get some crew, I'll come up for that. There's always a chance someone could run out of gas during the race and elevate me to "Alex Albon" rather than "Logan Sergeant".
    Jack Baruth
    2006 Radical PR6 -- SCCA P2 #31
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  17. #12
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    I don't have time for racing this year really, and unfortunately I think my GSXR is getting weak. But since everyone is going to Mid-Ohio, I will do my best to come too!

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  19. #13
    Senior Member 924RACR's Avatar
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    Now up to 5 for Mud-O... but I see 9 entered for Blackhawk in a little over a week!!!
    Vaughan Scott
    #77 ITB/HP Porsche 924
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  20. #14
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    Default P2 Demise

    Sorting out old paperwork yeaterday and found that the 2006 RunOffs had 36 DSR entries. Seems like SCCA messed with a good thing and now Prototype classes are circling the drain.

  21. #15
    Senior Member 924RACR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Nygard View Post
    Sorting out old paperwork yeaterday and found that the 2006 RunOffs had 36 DSR entries. Seems like SCCA messed with a good thing and now Prototype classes are circling the drain.
    Actually, no. In point of fact, after massive downturn from the pandemic and subsequent economy flailing, P2 seems to be on a substantial resurgence for this year, as evidenced by the entries for the two events I mention above. I can't remember the last time I saw a field of more than 5 P2's outside of Sprints or Runoffs.

    Climbing back out of the drain, maybe, but not going downward any more. Rather, interest in P2 seems to continue to increase. Lots of cars being bought online, it seems. Looking forward to seeing how turnout at RA is in October...
    Vaughan Scott
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    Sixteen of the entries were Stohrs (Way to go Lee!); Pit lane gossip suggested the highest investment of any one to be ~$75,000. My (unsponsored) car (19th overall finish) had a max investment over 5 five years of <$15,000 - a stock 2004 GSXR-1000 - a Yosh ECU (the driver was afraid to use the shift-without-lift feature) and 18 month old tires. I stayed in a hotel, Steve slept in his van. Does anyone remember that the Italian built Gloria was also there with Davide Rigon (Then a Ferrari test driver)?
    So, fast forward a few years. Good Stohrs had carbon springs and brakes and the per car cost began to approach $100,000. Big trailers, motorhomes and pro-crews predominated. We sold our car.
    Not long after, Tucker showed up with the turbo Multimatic car. Faster than Donohue in the Penske 917-30K at Road America. Rumored cost ~$1,000,000.
    SCCA reacted.
    Since then, the hoped for inclusion of S2000 cars in P2 has not occurred. I admire the efforts of 924Racr but don't see any of the grass roots support for P2 that made DSR interesting.
    Hope you prove me wrong.
    M

  23. #17
    Senior Member 924RACR's Avatar
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    Well, I suppose we each have a choice to make: do we wallow in the problems of the past, or push forward with enthusiasm to what the future could hold?

    I've made my choice; a number of P2 drivers in this thread have too, and so, clearly, have you.
    Vaughan Scott
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    Not at all demeaning that a current P car could come anywhere close to the 917/30 — which is surreal! — Donohue ran a 1:57.5 in 1973 and Tucker was right at 1:59.

    Regardless, a fair point you made, and utterly unbelievable!

    I checked some records at the time from the ‘70s, when only about six classes were slower than D/SR, when its run group at RA included Bugeye Sprites!

    So Yes, a mind-blowing advance from there to current P, and so much of that from the engineering of Lee Stohr himself — and of course from Mark Jaremko’s able feedback and *absolutely fiery* peddling.
    Once we think we’ve mastered something, it’s over
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    Quote Originally Posted by E1pix View Post
    Not at all demeaning that a current P car could come anywhere close to the 917/30 — which is surreal! — Donohue ran a 1:57.5 in 1973 and Tucker was right at 1:59.
    That car with a pro driver (Colin Braun) did 1:52s in testing. The time would've been good for the front row at the ALMS race that year. ALMS_RA_Qualifying.pdf

    What's sad in general, and not unique to just P2, is that we have reached a point where 10 cars is a big and exciting field for any of the F/SR classes outside of maybe FV.
    Van Diemen RF99 FC

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  27. #20
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    Holy Moly, 1:52? I stand in inarguable defeat!

    Wow, just Wow… and probably close to minute faster than a D/SR in the early Jeff Miller/Archie Onwiler days.
    Once we think we’ve mastered something, it’s over
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    I made the mistake of racing NASA this past weekend. Was half a lap ahead of a 9-car Super Unlimited field consisting of the usual SR3s, Vipers, GT3 Cups... when a lapped Mustang wiped my nose off.

    SO..

    I have one Radical left, and I'm running it in P2 with you boys at Mid-Ohio! There are half a dozen of us! And you should all feel good about staying ahead of me, because it's gonna be easy!

    Apropos of the other discussion, last year I ran my SR8 around Mid-Ohio faster than Chris Amon's best-of-race lap in the 1969 Can-Am. I'm 2.1 seconds off Donohue's best 917/30 lap, and expect to nudge up to it this year. Things have certainly changed.
    Jack Baruth
    2006 Radical PR6 -- SCCA P2 #31
    2018 Radical SR8 -- SCCA GTX #31
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  30. #22
    Senior Member 924RACR's Avatar
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    Damn, that sucks, my condolences Jack... I'm glad you'll be joining us, but not for the circumstances.

    (Also, where's Ralph to say "I TOLD you so!!!")

    Maybe after the weekend we can convince you to buy a fresh motor for it!
    Vaughan Scott
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    #25 Hidari Firefly P2
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    I'm 50% convinced I'll have a Stohr or Staudacher before I retire from this whole deal. That would be a better way to spend money than trying to push this very heavy and upright Radical onto podiums via power.

    HOWEVER, I do have all six gears now, for the first time. In all previous seasons I've only had four working gears. I could be faster. Or slower. It's hard to say.

    Looks like we have 7 P2 cars. My son does a lot of photography and videography for his Civil Air Patrol squadron. I'm gonna drag him up and see if he can make sure all of you get plenty of pictures to document this (by recent standards) historic event!
    Jack Baruth
    2006 Radical PR6 -- SCCA P2 #31
    2018 Radical SR8 -- SCCA GTX #31
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  33. #24
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    Very cool! I used to be in CAP, a few years back... well, decades, really!

    We gotta bother Niemeyer, make sure he doesn't miss the party too... He/Scott were making noises about it...
    Vaughan Scott
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    If we have nine cars...

    Also, apropos of nothing, as some of you know, I live next to Mid-Ohio and share a property line with the track. Anybody who isn't coming because you don't have crew, or tools, or a place to camp... let's talk.

    I was thinking about having a "P2 party" on Saturday night. Don't know if anybody would be interested. Would basically be pizza, beer, and everybody riding my literbikes, maybe not in THAT order.
    Jack Baruth
    2006 Radical PR6 -- SCCA P2 #31
    2018 Radical SR8 -- SCCA GTX #31
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  36. #26
    Senior Member 924RACR's Avatar
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    I like it! We're staying at the hotel, haven't sorted all our arrangements exactly... but I'd also suggest if anything making it all Prototype drivers and crew - not that many P1 guys, but might as well include?
    Vaughan Scott
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    Will it include P2 wannabes?
    Mike Beauchamp
    RF95 Prototype 2

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  39. #28
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    I think it should include P2, P1, and anybody who is interested in them.

    Doesn't have to be a big deal.... I can come up with a little bit of food, everybody can sit around and make fun of the extremely ad-hoc way I store and maintain my Radicals, anybody who wants to borrow a tool or turn a wrench can do it.
    Jack Baruth
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  41. #29
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    Sounds cool to me!

    As I understand it Bill is waiting on an engine but should ready in time. 7 on the list now so that will be 8. Should be a good time. I'll even try not to crash into the wall.

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    I am entered and plan to be there but as always my particiption is at the mercy of Indycar and how our weekend at the Formula E races go. Already had one planned race scuttled by my travel schedule but it looks promising for Mid Ohio and I will be at Blackhawk this weekend

    Fred

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  44. #31
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    Default MTC Turbo DSR

    It was a really cool program. 667CC turbo motor. MAde ungodly power on dyno when attached to a water to air intercooler that was designed to handle 1000 hp!!

    All sorts of cool stuff on that car. I should know, as I was fortunate enough to be the designer of that car! A lot of fun!! And Colin a very quick driver.

    Quote Originally Posted by rockbeau25 View Post
    That car with a pro driver (Colin Braun) did 1:52s in testing. The time would've been good for the front row at the ALMS race that year. ALMS_RA_Qualifying.pdf

    What's sad in general, and not unique to just P2, is that we have reached a point where 10 cars is a big and exciting field for any of the F/SR classes outside of maybe FV.

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  46. #32
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    Default The good old days...

    The good old days indeed...
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    Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass; it's about learning how to dance in the rain. God Bless America...especially those who are willing to protect her!

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  48. #33
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    Eleven cars signed up across the two classes. Highly excited to see this. To my immense sorrow, we are starting on the back straight -- this is how they do it in NASA and it often leads to trouble.
    Jack Baruth
    2006 Radical PR6 -- SCCA P2 #31
    2018 Radical SR8 -- SCCA GTX #31
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  50. #34
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    I cancelled. Sorry guys. Car wasn't far enough along and I have family obligations all next week.

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    I unfortunately ahve had to cancel. Just exhausted from travel and have to leave for Shanghai very early Monday morning

  52. #36
    Senior Member 924RACR's Avatar
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    Ugh, sorry to hear such news from both of you!


    ...and then there were six...
    Vaughan Scott
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    WOO HOO I'M GUARANTEED TOP SIX FINISHING POSITION.

    We'll be in Garage 14. Please come by on Friday afternoon or Sat morning and say hi!
    Jack Baruth
    2006 Radical PR6 -- SCCA P2 #31
    2018 Radical SR8 -- SCCA GTX #31
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