Z12b

[Onebadbug]

Citation Zink Z12B FV, I am told.
I bought this for $2500 last year hoping to run a vintage race. No race this year, and I'm too tall for the roll bar. My buddy has been autocrossing it this season. I went through everything over the winter, new: brake lines, Wilwood masters, belts, powder coated wheels and AR tires, wheel cylinders, shoes, steering coupler, etc, etc.

Car is turn key if you want the not legal 1915 engine. 120 hp, dual Weber clones, big valve heads, Total seal rings, ratio rockers, double springs, etc. etc.
Our last AX event here in Spokane is Oct 3rd/4th, you can drive it if you wish.
$3000 for the car, $2500 for the engine. I do have some 1200 engine options, but not a complete legal motor.

[pacratt]

Never heard them called Z12-B...but HAVE heard Z12.5 - which was the later, updated Z12.
Nice looking car from what I see in the photos.
What is the oldest date you can find in those log books and, if it's not too much bother, post the list of owners (shown on the last page of each log book)...History helps the value when selling.
You can also get alot of tech history (sometimes specific to a particular car) from Steve Lathrop of Citation. He's a member out here.
Best of luck with the sale. Hope it gets back on track very soon.
Glenn

[S Lathrop]

I was 6'2" when I drove these cars. I also weighed 225 pounds and I have relatively short legs. I fit under that roll bar. The issue here is that the fuel cell has been replaced with an ATL or similar wedge cell. That cell pushes the driver forward and up in the car. Because the driver is no longer position in the car as designed, this driving position compromises the safety afforded by the roll bar and the structure that supports it. Raising the roll bar may get you past the rules but it will not help the issue of the driver no being in the correct location. Also this cell actually compromises the cornering performance of the car by raising the CG significantly.

A Z12 is a great car. It won 2 back to back SCCA national championships when we were putting 75 to 100 car on the tracks like Elkhart Lake.

I have drawings for the proper cell and Eagle Fuel Cells has made new cells that will work for this car and put the driver where he belongs. Send me a PM and I will happily send anyone a drawing for the proper fuel cell. This cell works for the Z12, the Z10 and the 84 Citation FV as well.

I apologize for posting this rant but I hate to see really good cars compromised.

[Onebadbug]

I was 6'2" when I drove these cars. I also weighed 225 pounds and I have relatively short legs. I fit under that roll bar. The issue here is that the fuel cell has been replaced with an ATL or similar wedge cell. That cell pushes the driver forward and up in the car. Because the driver is no longer position in the car as designed, this driving position compromises the safety afforded by the roll bar and the structure that supports it. Raising the roll bar may get you past the rules but it will not help the issue of the driver no being in the correct location. Also this cell actually compromises the cornering performance of the car by raising the CG significantly.

A Z12 is a great car. It won 2 back to back SCCA national championships when we were putting 75 to 100 car on the tracks like Elkhart Lake.

I have drawings for the proper cell and Eagle Fuel Cells has made new cells that will work for this car and put the driver where he belongs. Send me a PM and I will happily send anyone a drawing for the proper fuel cell. This cell works for the Z12, the Z10 and the 84 Citation FV as well.

I apologize for posting this rant but I hate to see really good cars compromised.

You are correct. It says right on the fuel cell "Lynx", if I remember right. I just changed the foam.

[FVRacer21]

I was 6'2" when I drove these cars. I also weighed 225 pounds and I have relatively short legs. I fit under that roll bar. The issue here is that the fuel cell has been replaced with an ATL or similar wedge cell. That cell pushes the driver forward and up in the car. Because the driver is no longer position in the car as designed, this driving position compromises the safety afforded by the roll bar and the structure that supports it. Raising the roll bar may get you past the rules but it will not help the issue of the driver no being in the correct location. Also this cell actually compromises the cornering performance of the car by raising the CG significantly.

...........

I have drawings for the proper cell and Eagle Fuel Cells has made new cells that will work for this car and put the driver where he belongs. Send me a PM and I will happily send anyone a drawing for the proper fuel cell. This cell works for the Z12, the Z10 and the 84 Citation FV as well.

.

Steve,

Do you have a picture of the original cell? I have Butch’s 84v and It has a conventional (but simple) cell, or are you referring to the cell with “wings”? Or?

thanks

ChrisZ

[S Lathrop]

Steve,

Do you have a picture of the original cell? I have Butch’s 84v and It has a conventional (but simple) cell, or are you referring to the cell with “wings”? Or?

thanks

ChrisZ

The proper cell has the "wings" with the fuller and vent on the sides. The back of the cell tapers outward toward the top. The top middle section is such that your back and shoulders touch the firewall. Your head is as close to the roll bar as possible. your upper torso is as low as comfortable and your shoulders and upper back are closer to vertical for a more comfortable head position. If you look as a side view, the lower portion of the cell has a lower angle to the horizontal and about midway along that line, the back has a steeper angle. The idea here is that you back is curved for a more comfortable fit.

That basic cell design was used in the Z12 and all the cars after that that had fuel cells behind the seat. The 94 Citation has more space between the seat back and the fuel cell. The roll bar design is completely different. The cell in the 94 car is similar to the wedge cells. But top of the cell is behind the fire wall so it does not compromise the driver's seating position relative to the roll bar structure.

I am a bit anal about roll bar placement. I have a helmet with a big skid mark on the top from the track surface at Mid Ohio. I was driving. And I had to repair the engine bay on another car that went upside down and the impact on the roll bar bent all the tubes in the engine bay. The driver didn't even get a head ache from that impact. The impact point on the roll bar crushed the tub to about 2 thirds of the diameter of the roll bar. The only repair to the roll bar was a cap over the top and you had to look hard to see what had happened.

[Onebadbug]

At our last event, here's the times of my buddy in the Zink, and some others for comparison.
Pretty impressive, I think.

Vee Mod

red

D1

65.969

61.759+4

60.696

62.354+1

61.646

61.159+1

Radical Rapture

Yellow/red

D1

61.281

92.958+DNF

60.347

59.994

80.934+DNF

60.357+DNF

Ariel Atom

Black and Red

D1

61.473

89.361

60.303+1

60.749+3

59.807+2

60.020+1

BMW M2 Competition

Sunset Orange

D1

64.232+1

64.499

63.154

103.248+DNF

65.352

72.829+DNF

Porsche GT3

Chalk

D1

63.586+1

62.235+1

61.822

61.443

59.990

61.130+11

I also realized I under priced the engine significantly. I build so many, and have so many projects, I tend to forget which is which. This motor has a fuel injected case with $500 worth of machine work. Lifter bore sleeves, oil galleries tapped and plugged,welded #3 web, etc. It also has long connecting rods, chromoly pushrods, and a bunch of other stuff. It's basically this setup, https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1181.htm ($4000) except old school genuine VW heads. So, $2500 for the engine. Car as a roller still $3000.

[Onebadbug]

Engine is no longer available. Car is still $3000 as a roller.
Here's the vehicle history, many more races not listed.

Car # 42-610.
First race, 10/30/1980, Summit Point, Robert Hill.
5/3/81, Watkins Glen
7/4/86, Lime Rock, Roger A. Siebenaler
More Lime Rock
10/12/86, Road Atlanta, Roger
5/23/87, Bryar National, Roger
7/24/87, Pocano National, Roger
10/10/87, Road Atlanta Runoffs, Roger
1988 Road Atlanta Runoffs, Roger
7/15/89, Watkins Glen Summer National, Roger
7/28/89, Pocono Double National, Roger
many more races
7/13/91, Watkins Glen National, last Roger race
7/31/92, MVR Regional, Andrew Ranucci
5/141/94, Bridgehampton National, Andrew
Sept of 2000, Rodney Mundis, no races
8/17/2004, Spokane Raceway Park, Jim Sharp
7/14/2005, SRP, Jim Sharp.
~7/2019 I purchased it.

[FVRacer21]

I almost bought that car in 1992 but did not fit just right. Andrew bought it and flew. Roger had that dialed in. It was a dominant car in the NE until Andrew moved out west. Always wondered where it ended up.

ChrisZ

[DLRacing]

Winging out the cell and reverse arched the face to fit a Z4 seat is what I've done. Tight clearance but all is coming together. Got 4 gallon capacity. Kicked the upper fire wall back about 4 inches. Had to shave about .200" off the generator pulley. Also fit the roll bar with a retractable head cage built to GCR spec. IMO, when finished this will be the safest FV ever built. Car is on a diet and should easily come in at or under GCR spec weight.
Though fit with a D13 rear suspension the plan is to race the Runoffs next year and vintage. Going to make the cooling package interchangeable. Will I win a runoff, of coarse not. Will it demonstrate a car built in 1975 is still competitive, you bet!
Been working on my Z12 for 8 months and have only one comment, it is bar none the most well thought out platform I've ever worked on. You can track change a loaded engine in a little over an hour by yourself. Same with the trans. The car center of gravity is lowest I've ever seen.
Can't wait for Gingerman!

[Onebadbug]

Bump. Somebody needs to buy this before I do something stupid, like take it to Bonneville.

[Lucien j LeBlanc]

Citation Zink Z12B FV, I am told.
I bought this for $2500 last year hoping to run a vintage race. No race this year, and I'm too tall for the roll bar. My buddy has been autocrossing it this season. I went through everything over the winter, new: brake lines, Wilwood masters, belts, powder coated wheels and AR tires, wheel cylinders, shoes, steering coupler, etc, etc.

Car is turn key if you want the not legal 1915 engine. 120 hp, dual Weber clones, big valve heads, Total seal rings, ratio rockers, double springs, etc. etc.
Our last AX event here in Spokane is Oct 3rd/4th, you can drive it if you wish.
$3000 for the car, $2500 for the engine. I do have some 1200 engine options, but not a complete legal motor.

Hi:

Your car is an ideal candidate for SOVREN vintage Club Formula Vee with the exception of the motor. Being in the northwest the car is close to those tracks that SOVREN has events. The rules for Club Formula vee were adopted a couple of years ago and can be found on their web site. Good luck with the sale of your car.
Lou LeBlanc

[big_tuna]

Is this car still available?

[Onebadbug]

Is this car still available?

Yes. Collecting dust in my shop. I figure next year I'll move it to the old barn, call it a barn find, and it will be worth twice as much!

[Maxmillian]

Winging out the cell and reverse arched the face to fit a Z4 seat is what I've done. Tight clearance but all is coming together. Got 4 gallon capacity. Kicked the upper fire wall back about 4 inches. Had to shave about .200" off the generator pulley. Also fit the roll bar with a retractable head cage built to GCR spec. IMO, when finished this will be the safest FV ever built. Car is on a diet and should easily come in at or under GCR spec weight.
Though fit with a D13 rear suspension the plan is to race the Runoffs next year and vintage. Going to make the cooling package interchangeable. Will I win a runoff, of coarse not. Will it demonstrate a car built in 1975 is still competitive, you bet!
Been working on my Z12 for 8 months and have only one comment, it is bar none the most well thought out platform I've ever worked on. You can track change a loaded engine in a little over an hour by yourself. Same with the trans. The car center of gravity is lowest I've ever seen.
Can't wait for Gingerman!

Hello. I ended up bartering my way into the FV on this thread. Can you send me some pics of the changes you are talking about. I’m thinking about doing something similar. Thanks Maxmillian

[Garey Guzman]

Hello. I ended up bartering my way into the FV on this thread. Can you send me some pics of the changes you are talking about. I’m thinking about doing something similar. Thanks Maxmillian

If you have a picture you would like to use, this would be a good addition to my unofficial Zink Registry!
https://redroadracing.com/zinkregistry.php

[Maxmillian]

email sent to registry.

If you have a picture you would like to use, this would be a good addition to my unofficial Zink Registry!
https://redroadracing.com/zinkregistry.php