Runoffs "Shifts" location again.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Being out west this really sucks for me to check off a bucket list item but as I've said in the past, the roving runoffs are a problem for Majors participation. Don't like it but understand it.

https://www.scca.com/articles/201333...ation-strategy

Clearly membership is in the east as reflected by the decision and the fact that other series have grown in the east (FRP/Southern/NAF1000).

[stonebridge20]

Stan Clayton posted up a SCCA member location map a few years back. Most live east of the Mississippi by a lot if I remember correctly.

[Amon]

Stan Clayton posted up a SCCA member location map a few years back. Most live east of the Mississippi by a lot if I remember correctly.

I think that map listed Indy as the epicenter of the SCCA membership or Runoff's participants?

Mark

[Daryl DeArman]

So, the SCCA determined that bouncing around every year did more harm than good. So, now they are going to bounce around at half the pace? Doesn't that just mean two consecutive years of bad?

While there are certainly exceptions serious karters are generally lower budget than serious SCCA club racers. Yet, they seem to not have any participation problems with bouncing their national championships around the USA. When I participated in CA we had racers from the East Coast, New Zealand, Columbia and Dominican Republic.

I believe their (IKF) approach was prudent. Their "RunOffs" rotated from West, Central , to East every year. Tracks / Regions/ Clubs that wanted to host the GrandNationals when it came to their area submitted bids/proposals a couple years in advance. There was competition for those events. The traveling circus didn't have to pay to use the facilities. The facility paid the circus organization and then promoted and made the event attractive enough to ensure it was profitable.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

So, the SCCA determined that bouncing around every year did more harm than good. So, now they are going to bounce around at half the pace? Doesn't that just mean two consecutive years of bad?

While there are certainly exceptions serious karters are generally lower budget than serious SCCA club racers. Yet, they seem to not have any participation problems with bouncing their national championships around the USA. When I participated in CA we had racers from the East Coast, New Zealand, Columbia and Dominican Republic.

I believe their (IKF) approach was prudent. Their "RunOffs" rotated from West, Central , to East every year. Tracks / Regions/ Clubs that wanted to host the GrandNationals when it came to their area submitted bids/proposals a couple years in advance. There was competition for those events. The traveling circus didn't have to pay to use the facilities. The facility paid the circus organization and then promoted and made the event attractive enough to ensure it was profitable.

Isn't packing a kart around the country trivial compared to most race cars?

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Stan Clayton posted up a SCCA member location map a few years back. Most live east of the Mississippi by a lot if I remember correctly.

Like I said, I get it.

The message I read is "no more runoffs west of the Mississippi..."

My question then is what about the 'Majors'? There WILL be a BIG drop in Majors participation out west.
The ONLY guys that would want Majors are the 10 SRF/FE cars that go every year and the 10 or so tin tops.

[Rob E]

Isn't packing a kart around the country is trivial compared to most race cars?

Not to be argumentative and no dog in the fight but Christmas week the Kart guys descend on Daytona and it's difficult to tell the paddock (they seem to call it the "pits") from an SCCA race with the number of ToterHomes pulling 45' trailers, a few semi's and bunches of F450's pulling every kind of trailer imaginable.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Not to be argumentative and no dog in the fight but Christmas week the Kart guys descend on Daytona and it's difficult to tell the paddock (they seem to call it the "pits") from an SCCA race with the number of ToterHomes pulling 45' trailers, a few semi's and bunches of F450's pulling every kind of trailer imaginable.

Aren't those 'teams' of karts though? That usually tour around the country on a series?

[Daryl DeArman]

Isn't packing a kart around the country trivial compared to most race cars?

Not really. The main costs are hotels, food, and lost wages/PTO. Those are essentially the same no matter what you are towing. The difference in fuel is relatively minor when looking at the entire budget. 15mpg in Tacoma or 10 MPG in a F350 Diesel towing a 24' enclosed trailer from coast to coast is a difference of less than a set of tires. Closer tows even less so.

[Daryl DeArman]

Aren't those 'teams' of karts though? That usually tour around the country on a series?

You mean similar to the folks showing up at the RunOffs with 2-3 cars in their trailer?

Nobody (kart or car) needs a semi and 53' trailer to campaign a single car.

Nobody at the RunOffs or the GrandNationals showing up in a semi with a 53' trailer has much validity in their complaints about travel costs.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

You mean similar to the folks showing up at the RunOffs with 2-3 cars in their trailer?

Nobody (kart or car) needs a semi and 53' trailer to campaign a single car.

Nobody at the RunOffs or the GrandNationals showing up in a semi with a 53' trailer has much validity in their complaints about travel costs.

Well that wouldn't be me anyway. So, your conclusion is low budget karters do it so the SCCA and it's members are doing it wrong.

Fine.

[E1pix]

I believe their (IKF) approach was prudent. Their "RunOffs" rotated from West, Central , to East every year. Tracks / Regions/ Clubs that wanted to host the GrandNationals when it came to their area submitted bids/proposals a couple years in advance. There was competition for those events. The traveling circus didn't have to pay to use the facilities. The facility paid the circus organization and then promoted and made the event attractive enough to ensure it was profitable.

That method certainly did work (I ran Medford in 1981, and Quincy the next). Locations included Jacksonville, California (Atwater), Oklahoma (Yep), Oregon, Illinois, etc., covering the entire country from one year to the next.

Insofar as "low-budget karters", competitive guys are spending around $15K for the single SKUSA SuperNats championship race in Las Vegas these days. I suspect that matches a good Runoffs budget, plus crashes and equipment blowups. A friend of ours is the US dealer for Energy Kart and hauls up to a dozen karts to Vegas, so milage is split but otherwise not that different from an 18-wheeler with several cars at the Runoffs.

Re Runoffs, I can't for the life of me wonder why SCCA hasn't gone back to Road Atlanta, nor used Barber (paddock space?), Thunderhill (lodging?), the Glen (too far behind?), and elsewhere.

[Jnovak]

So, the SCCA determined that bouncing around every year did more harm than good. So, now they are going to bounce around at half the pace? Doesn't that just mean two consecutive years of bad?

While there are certainly exceptions serious karters are generally lower budget than serious SCCA club racers. Yet, they seem to not have any participation problems with bouncing their national championships around the USA. When I participated in CA we had racers from the East Coast, New Zealand, Columbia and Dominican Republic.

I believe their (IKF) approach was prudent. Their "RunOffs" rotated from West, Central , to East every year. Tracks / Regions/ Clubs that wanted to host the GrandNationals when it came to their area submitted bids/proposals a couple years in advance. There was competition for those events. The traveling circus didn't have to pay to use the facilities. The facility paid the circus organization and then promoted and made the event attractive enough to ensure it was profitable.

Good thought! Good luck!

[Daryl DeArman]

Good thought! Good luck!

Ha ha. The SCCA needs me negotiating these track rentals for such events. Just give me 10,000 paying spectators and 1000 race entries to entice the track with a revenue split.

[Daryl DeArman]

Well that wouldn't be me anyway. So, your conclusion is low budget karters do it so the SCCA and it's members are doing it wrong.

Fine.

Yeah, sort of. I'm not certain I see how this changes much if it's "home" for 2 years, then "away" for two. It's still only home half the time and away half the time. But now, the racers' drought is twice as long. How long of drought is safe before you lose customers permanently?

If it's "away" only one year maybe the pocketbook can endure and you go, but if it's away 2 years in a row you stay home one of those times because you haven't recovered.

[jpietz]

Got an e mail from the SCCA today. I was flabbergasted. Seems the decision has been made to keep the Runoffs East of the Mississippi for the future. The reasoning seemed mysterious to me.
But being a Californian until my surf addicted adult kids either move or they give me custody of my granddaughter I am stuck here. Now I am wondering why the largest region in the SCCA (SFR) needs the SCCA. Seems like the national board has just given a big
middle finger to the west coast regions. We really do not need their Majors, their Super Tours and now we don't need to worry about their runoffs. Sounds like the dumbest move since George III raised taxes. Wonder if it might bring a similar result.

[Daryl DeArman]

Got an e mail from the SCCA today. I was flabbergasted. Seems the decision has been made to keep the Runoffs East of the Mississippi for the future. The reasoning seemed mysterious to me.
But being a Californian until my surf addicted adult kids either move or they give me custody of my granddaughter I am stuck here. Now I am wondering why the largest region in the SCCA (SFR) needs the SCCA. Seems like the national board has just given a big
middle finger to the west coast regions. We really do not need their Majors, their Super Tours and now we don't need to worry about their runoffs. Sounds like the dumbest move since George III raised taxes. Wonder if it might bring a similar result.

That thought was mine as well. SCCA decides to focus their efforts on the greatest concentration of racers and attempts to become relevant again. Thinking perhaps that if they can become the 800# gorilla again, the areas they gave the proverbial finger to will need them. Then again, maybe they did take some notes from the karting world and realize that the IKF and WKA concentrated their efforts on opposite sides of the river and were both very healthy for a long, long time.

BTW how do you have surf-addicted adult kids and live in Fresno? Isn't Avila about 2 1/2 hours away?

Convince the group to move to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSbv7YS6tYA

[E1pix]

Shark-free.

I dunno, and might be missing something... but it seems SCCA's business strategy is to wing ideas everywhere and see what sticks. I just don't get any sense of comprehensive planning these days.

Or could it be that they were inundated with complaints about how expensive lodging was at Monterey and Sonoma?

Do they still pay a travel fund like in olden times?

With 25 years of success when held at Road Atlanta, one wonders about returning to a single track. A real challenge has to be gas expenses, exacerbated by competitors seeming to think themselves hacks if towing a modest rig that gets reasonable mpg. Has ego caused expenses to reach beyond the weekend warrior?

In Utopia, a track in Dead-Center America seems a good compromise. But no ideal one's there, it seems. I think that was some of the logic with Topeka, but I sure didn't Feel the Love when watching all of those over three weeks.

I sure hope the Club figures this out soon. It seems we're on a ticking time bomb that's running short of ticks.

[Speed Sport Engineering]

I was actually looking forward to a return to Laguna or Sonoma, and I'm from east of the Mississippi.

There isn't anything definitive in their statement, merely a "focus" on venues east of the Mississippi. You can be optimistic in reading that as it not ruling out west coast, or you can look at it the other way and say it will never happen again.

Same for the yearly rotation. There was no firm statement saying it would stay for 2 years or only 2 years.

To sum it up, my take is they would prefer to stay east of the Mississippi at a location for 2 years, but they are open to changing their minds again.

[E1pix]

Okay, good, that sounds a bit more optimistic. And to be fair, my post was in reply to the interps above it, which sounded like staying East was a far longer-term decision than just two years.

Good to hear you for one doesn't mind a cross-country haul. I'd never mind such a long trip myself, but as we all know the factors of time and money often outvote our own desires to travel somewhere else.

BTW, we've spoken several times; at Laguna, Mid-Ohio, and Indy. We're the couple raised in Oconomowoc who now traveling full-time in a Westy... seems I asked for a call whenever you sell your car... like most everyone else in Vee, I s'pose.

[jpietz]

That thought was mine as well. SCCA decides to focus their efforts on the greatest concentration of racers and attempts to become relevant again. Thinking perhaps that if they can become the 800# gorilla again, the areas they gave the proverbial finger to will need them. Then again, maybe they did take some notes from the karting world and realize that the IKF and WKA concentrated their efforts on opposite sides of the river and were both very healthy for a long, long time.

BTW how do you have surf-addicted adult kids and live in Fresno? Isn't Avila about 2 1/2 hours away?

Convince the group to move to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSbv7YS6tYA

The kids live in LA. We live in Fresno. Liked your video re river surfing. Did you know they surf Lake Michigan every fall in Sheboygan? Seem they always get waves that time of year. All that and close to Road America!!!
That's why one of animated characters in "Surfs Up" was noted o be from Sheboygan Wisc.

[Mike B]

Did you know they surf Lake Michigan every fall in Sheboygan? Seem they always get waves that time of year. All that and close to Road America!!!

There's a kook that surfs on Lake Superior, but only in the winter, apparently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RgfQ68Z8Bc

[DanW]

The kids live in LA. We live in Fresno. Liked your video re river surfing. Did you know they surf Lake Michigan every fall in Sheboygan? Seem they always get waves that time of year. All that and close to Road America!!!
That's why one of animated characters in "Surfs Up" was noted o be from Sheboygan Wisc.

Thread diversion warning...

A very popular surfing spot in Alaska is at the Turnagain Arm between Anchorage and Homer. The surfers ride the incoming bore tides that hit the runoff from the glaciers. They can ride the waves for several minutes at a time working across the waves. And I thought surfing SoCal beaches in winter and spring was cold.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_fTRJybU_E

Back to the original subject:
So why bother with Majors or Super Tour Events on the west coast if we're just going to get screwed without the benefit of getting laid?

[E1pix]

People indeed find ApexSpeed by surfing the web, so y'all are right on topic.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Back to the original subject:
So why bother with Majors or Super Tour Events on the west coast if we're just going to get screwed without the benefit of getting laid?

Yep. See post #6. There is only a dozen or so racers that "go anywhere" for the RO from out west.

[Speed Sport Engineering]

Okay, good, that sounds a bit more optimistic. And to be fair, my post was in reply to the interps above it, which sounded like staying East was a far longer-term decision than just two years.

Good to hear you for one doesn't mind a cross-country haul. I'd never mind such a long trip myself, but as we all know the factors of time and money often outvote our own desires to travel somewhere else.

BTW, we've spoken several times; at Laguna, Mid-Ohio, and Indy. We're the couple raised in Oconomowoc who now traveling full-time in a Westy... seems I asked for a call whenever you sell your car... like most everyone else in Vee, I s'pose.

I do remember meeting you a couple of times. I think I've decided over the past few years that I'm never selling my FV. To many memories in the car. I know it's probably best not to get attached to a race car, but I am to this one. I keep picturing it hanging on the wall in the TV room of the house. Knowing me I'll get it up there someday.

[E1pix]

Darn... but Thanks, Mike.

Seems your dad mentioned building customer cars... perhaps after your tenth win?

[problemchild]

I have more concern about the day to day operations of SCCA than I do about where the Runoffs will be in future years.
If I was a current FC racer, I would be more focused on my class being alive as a National class, than where the Runoffs will be.
The sooner that it gets blown up, broken up, or reformed ...... the sooner that Club Racing can find its new place in the 2020s world.

[Speed Sport Engineering]

I have more concern about the day to day operations of SCCA than I do about where the Runoffs will be in future years.
If I was a current FC racer, I would be more focused on my class being alive as a National class, than where the Runoffs will be.
The sooner that it gets blown up, broken up, or reformed ...... the sooner that Club Racing can find its new place in the 2020s world.

We've drifted off topic, but I agree. I've been trying to encourage as many FC racers as possible in the Midwest to run some majors events this season. We need the entries for sure.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

We've drifted off topic, but I agree. I've been trying to encourage as many FC racers as possible in the Midwest to run some majors events this season. We need the entries for sure.

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