Mystery Caldwell D-13 (S?)

[SwanTechEnt]

Hey everyone, I have just gotten into racing Formula Vee (although i have been around vee's ever since i could make my way through the paddoc) out on the west coast and I am competing in the San Fran region.

My dad bought a Caldwell D-13 for me to race with him, yet we are not sure of the history behind it. We bought it from another father/son duo, Dave & Brad Lloyd, who had raced it for a season, but moved on to some more serious racing. They had bought the car from Chuck & Blake Tatum, and thats about as much as we know.

I have been told that it might possibly be a D-13s but from looking around i haven't seen any other one out there. Could this be a one-off D-13?! I have also been told by Ron Chuck (from Ron Chuck Engineering) that this was owned by Bob Neumeister at some point in time.

Any thoughts as to where this car came from and history of the car?!

will add details if anybody wants them to help solve mystery, and here are some pictures of the car

[provamo]

most definitely a modified D 13 based upon my observation of those goofy four inch diameter tubes utilized as the basis of that chassis

the dash hoop and cockpit surround are not original as i recall

the original body used to be much rounder and i recall the driver sat lower the helmet almost enclosed by the roool hoop and bracing

the rear "trailing arms" originally were curved, round tubes

the break-through in that design was the zero roll rear i believe

still fun i am sure!

[problemchild]

BOB NEUMEISTER is a member here. He has a car for sale.
http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38612

This is a modified Caldwell. It certainly looks like S version bodywork. Bob ran a brown Caldwell in the eighties that had rear locating arms. He may have put it on the pole at the Runoffs once. I would contact him. Maybe he will recognize it.

Looks like a very nice car which would be competitive today.

[rickjohnson356]

most definitely a modified D 13 based upon my observation of those goofy four inch diameter tubes utilized as the basis of that chassis

the dash hoop and cockpit surround are not original as i recall

the original body used to be much rounder and i recall the driver sat lower the helmet almost enclosed by the roool hoop and bracing

the rear "trailing arms" originally were curved, round tubes

the break-through in that design was the zero roll rear i believe

still fun i am sure!

The 4" tubes on the bottom of a D13 are stock and original. That is the way it was designed.

it does look like the front of the nose and the tail are not original.

Ask Dave Weitzenhof -- he won the runoffs in a lime green one, in the rain at Rd Atl.

[problemchild]

As the story was told to me ... a D13 never has won the Runoffs.

I thought Dave drove a Zink.

[provamo]

rick i KNOW that the four inch tubes where original, that is how i identified the frame...i did then and do now still think it was a goofy design regardless of the success of the vehicle...just my opinion LOL

[Bill Bonow]

Dave Weitzenhof won in 1972 driving an Autodynamics Mk 5 with very D-13'ish looking bodywork mounted.

[rickjohnson356]

sorry. I guess I was having another (more frequently now) alzheimer's moment.

I really did think it was a d-13 going thru turn 1 back then. Must have gotten the wheel spray in my eyes. ()

But it was lime green for sure. (I hope )

Provamo: owe you one too, there are things I think are goofy that others do not.

(like hood pins on a street car--- usually a Honda with a 3" dia chrome exhaust 6" long)

It is great to be in a country where everyone can have their own opinion, without fear of reprisal

Seriously though, wasn't one of the reasons for the big tubes to get a low center of gravity for the car?

were the tubes used for air flow to the heads from the front of the car(early version??)?

[Bill Bonow]

were the tubes used for air flow to the heads from the front of the car(early version??)?

Nope, the early D-13 had a fan shroud & belt. They had a NACA duct on the tail to draw air to the fan shroud opening. I'll look around for a photo.

The story (from Butch) had it that Dave's AD Mk 5 at the '72 Runoffs had a prototype D-13 body. The D-13 was introduced in '73.

[rickjohnson356]

Bill: would you ask Butch if the car was green, please?

I would like to know, just for the record.

I guess, if it had a prototype D13 body, and I didn't look at the chassis in the paddock, I wouldn't have known.

Sure is nice to find out the truth, even if it is just 38 years later!

I won't continue to hijack this thread--

[FVRacer21]

The front half is certainly a D-13S. The S was a low profile model, hence the steering box was inverted and mounted back. I have some MRG literature when they were selling the car - when I find it I can scan and send to anyone.

The origional car had the standard D-13 zero roll. This obviously does not. Except on a super high speed track, this might be a very good car. I would take the weights off the front and add some more side protection though....

ChrisZ

[SwanTechEnt]

Wow! I am amazed at the turnout with this post! Thank you everyone who has commented on this!

The leading arm conversion was done by Ron Chuck, that I know. With Bob N. running a brown D-13... the spare nose I have with the car is a dark goldish/brown, so I can only assume Bob did own this car!

So in general agreement this must be a D-13S, my next question is how many D-13S's were made?

and with the weights and side protection, I did end up taking the weights off and this car does have pretty good side protection none the less... on lap 2 of the first "official" race at Driver's school I spun the car on the last turn, and a SRF came and hit me on my left side. I have great video of it! I just need to figure out how to make it work on youtube

Will post more info for anyone who wants it to keep figuring out history of the car!

[Bob Miller]

This sure looks like Nuby's D13s. I believe the rearward facing trailing arms are the same as used by Dale Buckley here in Denver on two Vees he build using D-13 fiberglass bodies and his own frames and suspension. i believe he called them Ringmasters, and Dale won the local Divisional Championship with a black one (Ringmaster)in the early 90's. Will try to get Nuby aware of this post

[Bob Neumeister]

My modified d13s did go to Calif. when I bought a Mysterian in 1992. I'm sure this is it since Ron Chuck told me it was being raced again 2 or 3 years ago and I even gave him the log book number. Ron had modified one before mine, so it was actually the 2nd done with "modified Caracal" trailing arms. I raised the roll bar at least 2 times before rear was changed and had various modified tails. Car finished 7th at my first runoffs in 1987 and was on the poll in 1988 at Atlanta. The S had this nose-morechisled than the round of the regular D13.
Note; Dale Buckley's cars copied the D13 and mine.
contact me for any further info (I actually copied the 3 log books when selling it-but finding that would be s stretch)

[DaveW]

The 4" tubes on the bottom of a D13 are stock and original. That is the way it was designed.

it does look like the front of the nose and the tail are not original.

Ask Dave Weitzenhof -- he won the runoffs in a lime green one, in the rain at Rd Atl.

As above, it was a MK5 with a MK3 bottom body mated to a D13 upper body. And, it was painted with "Dragger Orange" lacquer, from 9 rattle cans of paint, painted in my town-house basement. It had black racing stripes.

[provamo]

this thread is getting funny as hell, i cannot imagine DW in anything but an immaculately painted car!

[DaveW]

this thread is getting funny as hell, i cannot imagine DW in anything but an immaculately painted car!

You obviously have not looked very closely at any of my paint jobs!

[rickjohnson356]

You can't believe anything I say about my memories from 'back-in-the-day'!!!

I must really look stupid to everyone here, now for sure.

Hopefully, someone (anyone, please) will forgive me.

We all make mistakes, but golley, gee whiz, I could not have been further off that this.

/

Thanks, Dave W., for setting me straight.

Maybe I should just limit myself to reading the ApexSpeed posts rather than trying to comment on any of them.

[DaveW]

Don't worry, I forgive you - I've certainly remembered things totally wrong...

[problemchild]

It was the 70s afterall.

Pete Pires drove a bright green D-13, but that was in the 80s.

[rickjohnson356]

I was only off of the car model and color by a DECADE (10 YEARS) and the name of the driver !!

Sheesh.

[SwanTechEnt]

Well Bob, I hope you like the new paint job I gave the Caldwell! It is a fast car alright, The previous father/son duo i mentioned at the beginning of this thread were pretty fast in it (mostly the son, and I have to say their mechanical & fiber glassing skills aren't super great ) and it has been pretty fast for me as well.

Unfortunately I ran into some over-heating problems during the season opener at T-Hill in Willows. Someone put a remote oil cooler & filter on the car (Bob I don't know if this was maybe you? but i highly doubt it) and when we were putting things back together from taking the engine out and back in I got the plumbing backwards and not enough oil was getting cooled...doh! still placed 6th & 3rd in the two races though

[Dietmar]

I can see the cut out on the tail section, but I can not see what you have inside the body. Are there ducts on top of the cylinder heads that I am not seeing? Is there a duct to the oil cooler that is under the tail that is not visible?
Where are you picking up your oil temps?

The tail that you have on your car would require inner ducting, the pic that you reference on the samba is a different tail and you would either have to cut what you have or buy another version.

Send me pics of the above and I will help wherever I can

Dietmar
www.quixoteracing.com