2014 Runoffs Reports

Post anything that you know happened at the Runoffs.

Per Dan's update this morning, this is the corrected report -

First, they pulled the F600's and some of the two strokes off the track for exceeding the sound limits (103dB) after the first lap of the 1st test day session. Having no additional mufflers, Clint/Dan went and bought some 90 degree bends and exited the exhaust out the top of the sidepod instead of the side. This seemed to work for the 2nd session.

During the 2nd session (of only 2) Clint lost his front brakes as he approached the Corkscrew and, with only his rear brakes, he slid sideways into the gravel trap. After they pulled him out and back on the track, he discovered that gravel had jammed his throttle wide open so he spent the rest of the session with his on/off switch as the throttle while simultaneously trying to shift up and down - not well.

Jim

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Originally Posted by jim murphy

After they pulled him out and back on the track, he discovered that gravel had jammed his throttle wide open so he spent the rest of the session with his on/off switch as the throttle while simultaneously trying to shift up and down - not well.

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Please tell me you're joking.

A whole new twist to "throttle on - throttle off" & "drive-by-wire" ;)

interesting about the sound limit.........supps say 2nd time over the limit your done ...bye bye for the week wondering if this will hold up? ridiculous to say the least. how the hell you suppose to know without going out and getting closer......hmmm time will tell

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Originally Posted by Terry Abbott

interesting about the sound limit.........supps say 2nd time over the limit your done ...bye bye for the week wondering if this will hold up? ridiculous to say the least. how the hell you suppose to know without going out and getting closer......hmmm time will tell

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Does the 2nd rule apply to a test day as well though. Most likely it is from the start of Q1.

Yes, the sound folks with the county can be quite inflexible.

In my experience it would depend on how much over you were the first time and how much closer you were the second time. They don't have much sympathy for those taking the tip-toe approach.

If you are over, you best make drastic changes to make sure you are well under.

Be aware that atmospheric changes can influence the numbers if you are cutting it very close as can proximity of traffic...if you exit your exhaust left side and you are running side by side up the hill with a car on your left you may have an issue you haven't had all week.

I think they are being very reasonable about the sound. I saw several guys that were way over and even after working on the cars were still over the limit. They were all working on their cars to make sound.

We were also over on the test day but fixed it by qualifying.

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Originally Posted by SEComposites

Please tell me you're joking.

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Originally Posted by jim murphy

Post anything that you know happened at the Runoffs.

Per Dan's update this morning, this is the corrected report -

First, they pulled the F600's and some of the two strokes off the track for exceeding the sound limits (103dB) after the first lap of the 1st test day session. Having no additional mufflers, Clint/Dan went and bought some 90 degree bends and exited the exhaust out the top of the sidepod instead of the side. This seemed to work for the 2nd session.

During the 2nd session (of only 2) Clint lost his front brakes as he approached the Corkscrew and, with only his rear brakes, he slid sideways into the gravel trap. After they pulled him out and back on the track, he discovered that gravel had jammed his throttle wide open so he spent the rest of the session with his on/off switch as the throttle while simultaneously trying to shift up and down - not well.

Jim

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It's absolutely amazing where the gravel will find its way.

Clint reported that more gravel came out of nowhere and jammed his throttle yet again in the Tuesday session. He is hoping to have a better session today.

Jim

Q1 Tuesday

Brian Novak rocked a 1:33.535
Jeff Jorgenson 1:34.819
Jeremy Morales 1:37.179
Clint McMahan 1:37.462 was the top 4 stroke car - 3.9 sec back.
Ryan Barth 1:39.692
Jack Walbran 1:39.855
Calvin Stewart 1:39.983
Tom Edwards 1:41.207
Lance Spiering 1:41.599
Fred Edwards 1:43.545
Herb Nobel no time

Thanks to George Bugg for this post.

Apparently there is a live video feed from the Start/Finish stand looking down the front straight toward the last corner, go here -

http://scca.growsites.net/

I asked Clint why there were cars sitting there at the S/F stand in the pit row waiting for the checkered and then go on the track. He said that if you are paddocked in the remote area, this is the ONLY way to get from the pit row area back to your remote paddock - bummer. This is where the Edwards and Clint are paddocked and they payed big money to get that spot!

Video is screwed up bad - never saw them run.
Preliminary top 5:

Brian 1:33.5/1:34.3
Jeff 1:34.8
Clint 1:35.4
Calvin 1:35.7
Jeremy 1:35.8

Official results up soon

Q2 Wednesday

Brian 1:34.371
Jeff 1:34.875
Clint 1:35.411
Calvin 1:35.723
Jeremy 1:35.802
Lance 1:38.895
Jack 1:39.661
Tom 1:40.550
Ryan 1:41.742
Herb 1:42.090
Fred 1:45.299

Per George Bugg

Clint stated that the track surface is "baby butt smooth" and the tires are showing almost no wear at all, thus the track feels slippery and the temperature in the low 70's doesn't help grip.

Jim

From Chris Ross:

"According to a post by Calvin, he was hit from behind on Monday by a FF and had his diffusor damaged. Damage is fixed. He also blew a 115dB on the sound meter! They have been making numerous trips to the autoparts stores and have managed to get the sound under the limit. According to Clint they have established sound meters on both the inside and the outside of the track. He has blown a 103 even with some modifications to the exhaust so they are going to evaluate some more changes. Clint has also been fighting some oversteer, but I've worked with him on some suspension changes that have brought it under control. Track conditions were about 0.8 to 1 s slower during Q2. Hopefully conditions will be better this morning.

Here are the reported start/finish speeds.

Brian Novak (593) 103.3 mph
Jeff Jorgenson (494) 100.8 mph
Clint McMahan (Suzuki) 101.6 mph
Calvin Stewart (Suzuki) 101.8 mph
Jeremy Morales (Unknown Rotax) 95.6 mph
Lance Spiering (Unknown Rotax) 95.2 mph
Jack Walbran (Unknown Rotax) 99.9 mph
Ryan Barth (Suzuki) 101 mph
Thomas Edwards (Suzuki) 103.1 mph
Herb Noble (Unknown Rotax) 97.5 mph
Fred Edwards (Suzuki) 99.1 mph

These are significantly slower than the top speeds Clint and I have discussed so I don't think these speeds have any meaning.

For some reason some of the cars don't have segment times recorded including both Clint and Jeff. It would have been interesting to see how those compared among the top drivers."

Apparently, the video camera has been moved to the outside of the front straight and is live, so far. Waiting for the start of the Q3 session.

Here is the preliminary top five for Q3:

Brian 1:33.0
Jeff 1:33.9
Clint 1:34.0
Calvin 1:34.8
Jeremy 1:37.6

This is shaping up to be two groups.

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Originally Posted by jim murphy

"According to a post by Calvin, he was hit from behind on Monday by a FF and had his diffusor damaged. Damage is fixed. He also blew a 115dB on the sound meter! They have been making numerous trips to the autoparts stores and have managed to get the sound under the limit. According to Clint they have established sound meters on both the inside and the outside of the track. He has blown a 103 even with some modifications to the exhaust so they are going to evaluate some more changes.

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For what it's worth, I crewed for a MC powered car there once, we were having issues making sound. We had been concentrating solely on the exhaust. I then went up to the fence line just behind the sound booth for a listen.

Turned out to be the intake (no airbox) that was making all the noise, I could barely hear the exhaust over the carbs.

Daryl, excellent point about the injectors being exposed!

May or may not be his issue, but it could be someones'.

Top Four Finishers:

1. Brian Novak
2. Clint McMahan
3. Jeff Jorgensen
4. Calvin Stewart

Brian led flag to flag and was not challenged. And Clint stated, post race, that something went wrong with his RF suspension late in the race so he was forced to back off. Jeff and Calvin had a real ding-dong, back and forth race the last few laps and both deserve the hero move of the race. Great race.

Addendum: When the bodywork was taken off of the Banana Boat, they discovered that the RR suspension was messed up and caused the RF to be out of wack as well. This reminds me of the Topeka runoffs race that Clint drove around with the RR suspension all bent up.

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Originally Posted by Daryl DeArman

May or may not be his issue, but it could be someones'.

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Daryl,
Did you notice during the race video the covers over/around the injectors on both Clint's Banana Boat and Calvin's Blade?

Jim

Let's have all the drivers comment here about their race.

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Originally Posted by jim murphy

Daryl,
Did you notice during the race video the covers over/around the injectors on both Clint's Banana Boat and Calvin's Blade?

Jim

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I had not. Had to multitask so was watching on a split screen in a small window. Glad nobody had any more sound issues!

We also had major sound issues. I am very glad that we ran the Monday test day or we would not have won the Runoffs. We managed to reroute the exhaust but this required much clutch tuning to get the motor back to the right powerband. I had forgotten how tough this is and we even made a change about 2 hours before the race.

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Originally Posted by Daryl DeArman

I had not. Had to multitask so was watching on a split screen in a small window. Glad nobody had any more sound issues!

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Then you missed the Formula Mazda race where the race leader got black flagged a couple laps from the end of the race for sound violation - YOW!!!

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Originally Posted by Jnovak

We also had major sound issues. I am very glad that we ran the Monday test day or we would not have won the Runoffs. We managed to reroute the exhaust but this required much clutch tuning to get the motor back to the right powerband. I had forgotten how tough this is and we even made a change about 2 hours before the race.

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When the Banana Boat was moved back to the trailer, Dan yanked the pipe sticking upright above the right sidepod and threw it into the trash barrel. I think Dan plans to NEVER EVER return to Laguna Seca. He was not a happy camper the entire week given the poorly run sound control and the floundering national officials.

IF they have surveys about this Runoffs I can just imagine how much bad feedback that many will talk about.

I do agree that the sound situation is difficult to deal with. Other than that we thought it was great. Of course we would as we won. Yay.

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Originally Posted by Daryl DeArman

For what it's worth, I crewed for a MC powered car there once, we were having issues making sound. We had been concentrating solely on the exhaust. I then went up to the fence line just behind the sound booth for a listen.

Turned out to be the intake (no airbox) that was making all the noise, I could barely hear the exhaust over the carbs.

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Most racing karts require intake silencers to meet sound limits also.

From the Supps for the RunOffs:
6.7. Sound Control will be in effect for this event. Sound limits will apply as follows:
* SRF – 90db for all test day and qualifying session s. The race will be at 103db per GCR 5.7.3.
* All other classes – 103db for all test day, qualifying sessions and the race per GCR 5.7.3.
* Due to MRLS and County Park sound enforcement, the following non-standard penalty guidelines will apply during the times specified

Monday-Thursday 8:30-9:00 and after 4:30, cars exceeding 90db will be immediately black flagged on the second reading per the Sound Control information sheet provided to all drivers.

Monday-Thursday 9-4:30, cars exceeding 105db will be immediately black flagged on the second reading per the Sound Control information sheet provided to all drivers.
Sound will be monitored on driver’s right past the exit of Turn 5.
More details of the Sound Control procedures, associated signals, and penalties may be found in the separate Sound Control information paper provided to all competitors on the SCCA Runoffs information page on SCCA.com. Those procedures are to be considered an extension of these regulations.

All of the races I attend this year had a 103 dBA restriction in place. What was the issue at the RunOffs that caused everyone such heartburn? You should have been in compliance with the 103dBA limit long before you ever arrived at Laguna Seca.

Dan McMahan can speak on this much better than I can but what he told me was that the meter is in a valley and the sound would echo off the walls of the valley. Thus it would be inconsistent. I will defer to Dan now.

Jim

First of all, Clint had the brake problem on the first test session. The throttle sticking came after he found the gravel trap at the corkscrew. I had to rework the throttle stop to cure the problem.
The first issue with sound was the fact that it was track right which had us pointed at the meter. The track and terrain at the sound station was such that it would actually amplify the sound. My problem was not getting compliant, but getting consistent readings. A car that I had changed nothing on would suddenly read lower while one that I had done something to would jump 5db. The other problem was that we were in the dust bowl and either had to wait for a session to end or get an escort to and from paddock to make any changes during the session. I evidently found the right combination as all four cars passed sound. Don't get me wrong, I am not throwing rocks at sound control, just relating what I had to contend with. I will say that our car has seldom gone past 96 or 97 anywhere else and hit 105 on the first test session. Most of the problem for us was the right side exhaust exit. I can't explain the inconsistency , but I will say that air density should not have caused more than 2db, at most 3db. I was talking with some locals and was told that some street cars would ding it on airbox noise. That may have been part of our problem. I finally got it down by welding a couple of baffles at the end of the exhaust pipe. The Farmall system was pretty ugly but it worked. We probably won't come back mainly because of the distance, but I am rethinking our exhaust design.

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Originally Posted by jim murphy

Then you missed the Formula Mazda race where the race leader got black flagged a couple laps from the end of the race for sound violation - YOW!!!

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My time schedule did allow me to catch the FM race. It was apparent that Mr. Wills wasn't happy.

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Originally Posted by tedsimmons2

All of the races I attend this year had a 103 dBA restriction in place. What was the issue at the RunOffs that caused everyone such heartburn? You should have been in compliance with the 103dBA limit long before you ever arrived at Laguna Seca.

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(1) I doubt anybody else is reading and enforcing that rule with such zeal.

(2) The distance from the racing surface where the sound is read might be different.

(3) Atmospheric conditions may be different.

(4) Sound waves maintain their pressure levels over distance differently at different frequencies. High frequencies are more directional than low frequencies. Uphill under full load may have found people operating under different conditions than normally read.

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Originally Posted by formulasuper

Most racing karts require intake silencers to meet sound limits also.

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Yes, back when I raced karts RLV only made exhaust components.

1 Brian Novak NovaKar J360 Rotax 593 31:39:761 20 1:33.941
2 Wiley McMahan Maverick Nova Suzuki 31:55.813 20 1:34.225
3 Jeff Jorgenson Quadrini Racing Invader QC1 Rotax 494 32:11.764 20 1:35.129
4 Calvin Stewart Novakar Blade F600 Suzuki 32:12.051 20 1:35.468
5 Jack Walbran Scorpion S1 Rotax 593 31:50.276 19 1:39.025
6 Lance Spiering KBS MK VII Rotax 494 31:50.867 19 1:39.148
7 Ryan Barth Falcon Falcon 0.5 Suzuki 32:15.176 19 1:39.367
8 Fred Edwards Maverick F500 Suzuki Met 32:17.901 19 1:39.029
9 Jeremy Morales Scorpion S1 Rotax 493 32:27.084 19 1:41.018
10 Herb Noble Scorpion S1 Rotax 494 32:03.667 18 1:38.829
11 Thomas Edwards Maverick 00-003 Suzuki 15:29.527 9 1:41.390

Jack,
Congrats on a fine 5th place finish. I haven't seen the video yet (it's FINALLY available now), but it looks like it was pretty tight between you and Lance.

Congrats, Jack!!!

On this page.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/438129...57648298504407

y'all ever gonna share Brian's qualifier video?

I'd like to see it!

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Originally Posted by Rick Kean

y'all ever gonna share Brian's qualifier video?

I'd like to see it!

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If he ever gets it to me I will post it.

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Originally Posted by Jnovak

If he ever gets it to me I will post it.

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We've called you out! :thumbsup:

Ok ok ok.

Anyone know any good cheap audio editing software? The audio from the camera is horrible for some reason. Something to do with my mounting position I think as the Replay usually gives really good audio.

The replay has stickers to cover the sound port. I had to use 2 of them and the audio is very good. Without, terrible, with 1, an improvement, 2 is just right...