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Hello,
I'm looking for any information, ie.. history, contact, pic's, setup info, super duper speed sectrets, good/bads, well you get the idea on the early 80's PRS FF. The one with the inboard front/out board rear suspension with the radiator in front. I now have one to reassemble and could use all reference material I can find!
Thanks!
Kurt
Hi Kurt:
I have an 81 RH-01 with side radiators and outboard suspension all around that I've owned since 97.
I don't recall ever seeing one with inboard front and outboard rear suspension.
I know that there is a PRS in the San Fran area. There are 2 in CT. One which is owned by Sam Posey. There are at least 3 in storage here in PA.
I'm to understand that they are more plentiful in the UK.
I'm guessing that others will join in the conversation with regard to their history.
Parts are not terribly easy to find, especially suspension bits.
I just found out that some molds exist for the bodywork. Steve Maxell who runs a composite company in New England bought them as part of his inventory from Pennon. I don't know exactly what he has as the deal has been recent.
Let me know what kind of information that you need for the reassembly and I'll try to help as able.
If I can't help maybe I can redirect you to other parties with experience with the car.
It would be nice if you could post any pictures that you have as I'd be interested in seeing what you bought.
Regards,
Greg Kokolus
Kurt,
Contact Joe Marcinski - He owned a 82 PRS bought new and would share his experiences. If you don't hear from him right away be patient, as he is in the middle of a move.
PM me for his contact info. He also visits ApexSpeed, so he might chime in if he sees your request.
Joby Graham
I owned one bought it off after the 82 runoffs from Jackson Younge.
Beautiful cars but they did have handling issues.
Entry understeer exit oversteer impossible to dial out without changing the rear pickup points.
A fellow in California had someone redesign the rear end and it corrected the problem on his 82f. I cannot remember his name but he was an attorney invovled with Swift when they first got started.
If your lucky its the guys from California that was redesigned or it could be mine. What are some of the names in the logbooks from the 82 83 84?
Kurtis Goertz
It just came to me it was Alex Cross who sent me the drawings of the redesign
Alas....logbooks. I'm in the process of tracking them down. I will also get pic's up of the car when I have everything in one place. I do know the car ran out here (Arizona) in the 90's and was painted the classic Valvoline red/white/blue at one time and then all white with green highlights. I haven't jotted down the SCCA stamp yet but it is in the correct spot.
Thanks for the info so far. Keep it coming! This is 1/3 the fun of owning these cars. (The other two are getting them put together and then driving them...)
As threatened, pic's!
I'm still working on logbooks. The number stamped into the hoop is 82-003. I didn't think there was a region that started with 82 so it may be a chassis number. IDK...
I have nose and tail molds, arm and rocker jigs as well now. I hope that's not a sign of things to come!
Pretty fancy seat you have there!
There was one of these running at Waterford Hills in the late 80's maybe early 90's. Always loved the way that car looked.. I think the guys last name was Zimmerman?
I have pics of it, I will try to scan some. Only one I ever saw in person.
Hi Kurt,
I did have one of the 82F's. To the best of my knowledge only four cars came into the US. Joe Stimola had one, Jackson Younge had one, Alex Cross had one and there was mine. While the car was really, really good looking and looked to be well designed, it did not handle well. Joey had a conga line of drivers try his and pretty much everybody walked away after a race or two as the thing was so difficult to drive.
The Holman brothers (Steve and Vic) who built the PRS hired Sergio Rinland to design the cars, but when they built the chassis it appears as though they selected one wall thickness too small for most of the chassis tubes. I had an 81F which was a really, really nice car and worked quite well. I had lent the car to Joe to take to a FF series in Venezulea after the 1981 season and it came back somewhat the worse for wear. Joey stood behind it and offered to either completely rebuild the 81 car or give me a new 82 car in return. After meeting with Joey and Vic Holman at the West Palm track whent they showed me the drawings of the car, I unfortunately choose to get a new 82F.
Later on the Holman brothers built some new cars that they called Bowman and I believe that the same thing happened. The cars came over as two liter FF2000's also turned out to flex a great deal. After they were braced up they were apparently pretty good cars and Eddie Callo converted one to a 1600 has done pretty well with his.
There is a fellow named Bill Peterson who does quite well with an 82F running with the FRCCA. I believe that the reason Bill goes so well is that the FRCCA runs on a spec (hard) tire, the American Racers. The hard tires don't develop the same grip levels and impart the loads that the early 80's Goodyears did and so I think that is why the car works pretty well for Bill.
With Joey's help we did make some new mounting plates/pickup points for the rear shocks and camber links and it did improve the car a bit, but it was no match for the VanDiemans & Crossle's of that time. We don't know if Bill's car is mine or Joe's, but it definitely has some of the pickup point mounting plates that I made because I had them anodized in blue after I made them. I made some extra plates and gave them to Joe, but by that point he had hung the car in rafters of his shop and moved on to other things.
I do not recall the chassis number of my car (the mind is sometimes kind when it comes to bad memories), but if it is my old car you will find two extra stiffening tubes that go from the middle of the rear cross member forward toward the two downward facing bars from the main roll hoop. Pat Patterson welded those in for me in an attempt to stiffen up the back of the car. Bill Peterson's chassis doesn't have those extra braces.
The story that Joey related to me is that after Alex Cross and John Gianelli ran their car a couple of times, they were pretty disappointed after the good results that the 79F, 80F & 81F PRS chassis were getting. They decided to call David Bruns and that led to a call to Paul White because they thought if that was best that the Brits could do that is was time to get to get the band back together again. The result was the Swift.
At least that is the way that Joey would tell it if he were still with us and everyone knows that I believe everything that Joe ever told me! Honestly, the truth is not far from that............
I think a set of Hoosier R60 or American Racers is just what the 82F needed, but unfortunately Club Ford didn't happen until well after that. I don't know if that helps or not.
Joe Marcinski
Hmmm...looks like we have a match. Well, it's reassuring to know that I'll be running on the AR's or Yokohama's out here. It's nice to know that if ...when ...I crash it it won't be my fault!
OK all you Swift haters out there...here's the reason right here! It's nice to own a piece of history. :)
Hi Kurt,
Those are the braces that Pat & I added. I would be very interested in hearing how the car works when you get it finished. At that point in time (1982) Joey and I were using Carrera shocks. I think if you put some decent adjustable shocks on it you will find it works well with the harder tires.
I hope it goes well for you. While I grew to dislike the car because it did not work very well (at that time on those tires) it is still one of the best looking race cars I have ever owned. I had often wondered how it might have worked if we had built a jig and duplicated the frame in chome moly tubing.
If you want some ideas as to things that could be changed pretty easily to help with handling please don't hesitate to contact me (marcinskij@midwescofilter.com).
Good luck!
Joe Marcinski
Joe is correct about the original Bowman chassis. They made the wall thickness too thin. The cars came with a Steel floor to keep the weight low. Well after cracking tubes, etc they had to re-chassie the cars and used an aluminum floor since the car was now a lot heavier. Still not all the chassis are the same, but the one I am running now is stiff plus and have not had any tube issues with it.
Ed
Kurt,
Dont worry, your car will probably work great with the hard Yokahama's we run with Pro Autosports.
Do you think you might make the Dec. race?
No chance. The motor from the Vector that is now going into the PRS is in a few pieces as well. But if all goes well I'll be ready at the begining of the year. I will be out next week at Firebird, hopefully helping with a Van Devil, mooching chips and beer ect..ect..Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy Simmons
Good lord I need to get back in a car. Been too long since the Lola.
Thank you very much for the information Joe. It still has the old Carrera shocks, but one has a broken ball end. I have a set of Koni's that came with the car that are "ready to install". I'm going to have them tuned up after I do some "calculations" and start from there. Please don't be surprised if you get an e-mail or two from me!Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Marcinski
Cheers,
Kurtis C.
Lew MacKenzie drove a PRS RH-002 fairly regularly over the last decade in the Ontario FF Championship. I believe it was prepped out of Nigel Mortimers shop in Ottawa.http://mortimer-racing.com/
He may have some info on running the car on radials as well.
Jonathan
Hi Kurt,
I bought Joe Marcinski's 82F from Chip Robinson in the late '80's, I know it's his based on the Log Book. Every thing Joe said about the car is true. I ran Club Ford in the Northeast from '87 to '93 on the Hoosier R60s and won a bunch of races and 3 championships. The car was a rocket.
I measured the car when I bought it, got set up info from Stimola, and came up with a good base set up mixing the two. I still have the info and will send it to you if you want.
I sold the car to a friend when I moved from N.J. to California in '94. It's only run like 2 Auto X since. I saw the car a year or so ago and hope to buy it back next year.
Sean Gallagher
Hey BR549,
I think you will engineer that car and do just fine in the group that you intend to run with. They said the Lola 440 was a flexiflyer and coudn't win either, it has. Let me know if I can help. Hey, you always need someone to drag that irritating pit battery back to the paddock. Merry Christmas to you and yours.
Marshall
That is one sexxy beeeotch! I can't wait to get it together and looking like that again. PM sent..Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Gallagher
And some good news this evening, the previous owner has the logbooks. They will be in my hands this Saturday.
Cheers,
Kurt
Thanks for the help everyone. I have the logbooks in my grubby little hands and it is not Joe's old car, Kurtis G got it right, it is Alex Cross's old car. I have John Giannelli's and Alex Cross's signatures as the first two entries. Then a few different names, a Caroll and a Bill then a owner I cant' figure out...he must be the lawyer with the chicken scratch signature!) then the Shepards.
A bit of nostalgia here...when I was 17 years old my neighbor was Ray Germaine who owned a Crossle 50 (55?). He had a friend named Bill Zimmerle that lived up in Prescott. While hanging out with Bill and Ray I saw a beautiful Formula Ford painted up in Valvoline colors that Bill also worked on. Bills friend was John Blizzard. The moment I saw that car I swore to myself that one day I would race a Formula Ford. I worked with Bill and Ray on the Crossle and later the Swift, but I never forgot that red, white and blue beauty.
Well, I have seen pictures of this car painted in the Valvoline colors and I just saw John Blizzards name in the back of the logbooks. He's the chicken scratch signature! I'm kinda freeking out right now...
This car has lived it' entire life out West running at PIR, Sears Point, Carlsbad, Holtville, Firebird, Las Vegas, Colorado and the Eloy GP. It is in fact chassis #3 which matches what's on the car and in the logbooks.
Thank you Sean for sending me the setup information you have, it's very much appreciated.
I'd still like to hear anything about these cars anyone would care to share. And, does anyone have a copy of the original logo that would have gone on the nose? It's gotta have a logo on the nose or it just isn't right...:)
Cheers,
Kurtis C.
I talked to a previous owner who sent me a picture of the car as I remember it from 1989. It also confirmed the car as the one. My friend Bill is in the Polo shirt. He was a cool guy. I know...who cares. But this is pretty cool in my book.
We care. But c'mon and get that thing out doing what it was built to do!Quote:
Originally Posted by PRS82F
I think it's pretty cool they let a FF on the golf course..;)
Long time coming but, today it touched the ground on all four wheels for the first time since November 1997. All I need to do is make up some oil lines and paint it. Attachment 47681
Gotta love that header.
Looking good Kurt :greenflag:
I know how much work and attention you put into this car.
congrats!
How fast does it go? ;)
Ever had a neighbor ask you that?
It's the first question anyone ever asks!Quote:
Originally Posted by marshall9
:)
Looks good!
It's been a long time because I have had other commitments....like finding a job...but now progress resumes. Oil system done, cooling system done, suspension done, wiring 90% done and now the paint is as done as I care to. It's time for final assy and seat making. Attachment 57510
This has been [and I am sure] will continue to be a great read -thanks :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
from Jacksonville bought a car based upon the same type of meeting with the Holman's@ PBIR/WPB changing from his Crossle - watched him drive that and whew !! .... then he switched to a Reynard leading to his (and Reynard's only) FF National Championship [... sorry for the slight sideways]
:greenflag::greenflag::greenflag:
Great to see that car finally looking as good as it deserved to look. Now I want to see it on the track!
Any PRS owners out there looking for a spare stub axle I have a brand new one. These were prone to failing. I improved the material and the heat treat process to eliminate this issue.
We machined a set of these recently for a RH01 owner in Colorado and had one left over. Contact me if you have any interest in it.
Hi
Please give me 24 hours to consult with my mechanic before selling
I have an PRS RH-01 and I need to see if the part is useful
Thanks
Greg Kokolus
If he doesn't take it, I will.
Ok I'll give the first post a shot at it tomorrow. If I don't hear back from him I'll send you an email or a PM regarding closing the deal.
I was told that Vic Holman no longer has any of the drawings for these so I guess I'm it.
I had thought about reverse engineering the upright as I'm told they also are no longer available.
I've driven many different types of FF's, the most wins I ever scored were in a PRS RH01. I have a picture of me at Carlsbad back in the early 80's catching about a foot of air coming off the drag strip onto the return road.
Gary
PM sent
Greg Kokolus
Pic of my PRS purchased from Mike Scanlen after he drove it in the 40th, (was yellow at time) Car holds the CF track record at Homestead and 7/100 off Daytona track record. 2012 2013 2014 SARRC champion car, Car is in South Florida running the SARRC series with SCCA.
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j3...psqby7wfrp.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghickman
I had one good one and one mashed up one. I ended up fabricating new ones from scratch. When I picked up the car someone had tried making replacements from VW parts. Wrong!Attachment 57543Attachment 57544
Bill Slowik built that car in the mid 1980's. Bill was an excellent driver and fabricator. He was Fast and won a bunch of racers and championships in EMRA and RCCA in the North East for years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Klotz
Bill tried Reverse Flow Cooling for a season on that car with mixed results. Also made unavailable parts for my PRS 82F when I ran it.
The one year and fourth months later update:
I have spent very little time working on the car over the last year. Space in the garage is at a premium. Damn airplane stuff in the way.(Anyone need a Midget mustang fuselage?...) Anyway, I was talked into bringing it out to the track last weekend to maybe work on between sessions. Nothing happened there but I did do some prepping to it just in case. Bought some 110 and topped off the water then when I got home with it instead of pushing it into the garage I thought it should go around the block a few times. Even doing that felt great.
Time to button it up. Going to pour a seat, put some new belts in it, make some setup bars, get a few odds and ends and get her done. Of course by then it will be 120 degrees out here but, it will be ready for the start of fall. Good times ahead.
The guy I crew for races a 1979 PRS RH02F. I've shared this thread with him and invited him to join the conversation. He's had his PRS a long time and has really developed and optimized it. Hopefully we'll see him posting here.
CornerSpeed
crew for #27 PRS San Francisco Region SCCA
Great to hear,Kurt, and it was nice to see you at the track.
Jackson's moniker was "Spin or Win". Sounds cool, but he overdid it from time to time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift17
http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/atta...id=76526&stc=1http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/atta...id=76527&stc=1
Done. Gonna' either do a private test at Wilcox or a Pro-Auto day at Firebird ( it will always be Firebird to me...) next month. :checkered:
(and yes, the little 87 has been replaced with a proper sized one.)
"Private test?" Noooo. I want to see that baby run, and the Main track has great places to watch.