Zink Z-12

For Sale- Historic Formula Vee, Zink Z-12. First raced in 1976.


Total of 84 races. Updated with D-13 rear suspension. Short box trani.

Smoothie rear brake drums.Nice shifter w/new u-joints.


Fresh Noble engine, SR reworked heads, lightened rods, balanced. Great manifold. Extras-engine case,coil,valve covers,remote oil filter base,extended oil sump,distributor, VW oil cooler, Girling master cylinders, fabed brake rez, mirrors, Lifeline fire system, spring fasteners, misc chassis hardware. Fuel Cell from Jim Oseth (never installed),extra set of rims with old rubber, extra spindles, extra offset king pins,


I bought this car in '96. Never got to the project. I have the log books & provance.
Paid $1700 for the rolling chassis, $2000 for the motor. $2500. for it all.

As is, where is (NE Pa 18657 zip) Mark 570-881-7184 or furnitureman61@gmail.com

how about some photos?

naked chassis et al

i am a voyuer at heart LOL

I will put some up soon. Do have them on my phone, ready to send via e mail, if you wanna look. Nothing naked yet.
I am in NE PA.

oh i know where you are....used to cruise by there on my way to the Jersey Shore

just kidding about the naked bit

but would like a visual on the car ....i am sure other APEXERS would too!

Here ya go. Got some good prospects to buy.
Nothing firm yet.
http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/v...a/IMAG0429.jpg

That appears to be one of the rebodied Zinks from So Cal in the 80's. Rocket Ray Stephens put together several of these, one of which won the first Vee BD party driven by Keyuong Lee (sp) from So Cal. We ran Riverside in those days and the long straights really favored these cars. Some felt they were Sting copies and if you look close you'll see the similarities to Stan Towne's Sting.

Still for sale. New pix.
http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/v...a/dec30027.jpg


http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/v...a/dec30025.jpg

cool opportunity for someone!

Guys,! I've run against these cars at Riverside and they could be an issue at the runoffs. If memory serves me, and it rarely does, this chassis won several Runoffs at Atlanta. Come on Steven, help me here. Didn't George Feselle win in one of these? So did Wayne, something or else, I can't remember his last name. Don't you think this car is a sleeper?

nix on runoffs potential...too fat.....but looks like a SOLID car

I can't speak for other years, but a Z12 was 2nd, 4th, 5th in the '78 runoffs (other places as well I think). I'm pretty sure a couple of later years were won by a Z12.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by provamo

nix on runoffs potential...too fat.....but looks like a SOLID car

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not a slam............i still think this is a great deal for someone

I looked it up in the SCCA archives. Fizell won in 83 & 84 in a Z12 SPR. 2nd in 85. I'm not sure what the SPR stands for, maybe a sponsor.

Add Wayne Moore in 79 & 80... 3rd in 81

It was a very good car!

SPR was Salt and Pepper Racing ....a reference to the make up of his crew. I believe that Fizell's car had won the Runoffs several times before he got it. I think it was the same Zink driven by Moore.

This car came from Vermont. Many of the Z-12s got updated with a Citation zero-roll rear suspension but some NEDIV cars got D-13 rear suspension, as this one did.

Siebenaler was no more or less dominant when he switched from his Z-12 to his Mysterian. Either way, he was good for 5 or 6 National wins per year.

This could be a killer car in the right hands, and a decent car in anyone's hands.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by problemchild

SPR was Salt and Pepper Racing ....a reference to the make up of his crew. I believe that Fizell's car had won the Runoffs several times before he got it. I think it was the same Zink driven by Moore.

This car came from Vermont. Many of the Z-12s got updated with a Citation zero-roll rear suspension but some NEDIV cars got D-13 rear suspension, as this one did.

Siebenaler was no more or less dominant when he switched from his Z-12 to his Mysterian. Either way, he was good for 5 or 6 National wins per year.

This could be a killer car in the right hands, and a decent car in anyone's hands.

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A little more of the history of this car:

I think that this is one of the original cars that were sold into the North East. Someone there grafted a D13 rear suspension, replacing the original Ed Zink design. I never saw this car but I heard about it. I had a car in Indy and John Hogdal, Richard Asp and I did the same to our car. John qualified for the run offs in 1978 with that car.

Before we went to the run offs, I called Ed Zink and said that we needed to do something with the rear end. Neither Zink nor I wanted to go to the run offs with a car using Caldwell parts. Ed drew a sketch on one piece of paper. I built it. And John finished second in the run offs. We did not test before arriving in Atlanta.

Over the winter I started building kits to convert the Z12s. Wayne Moore had won very few races, if any before he converted his car. Les Parker did the conversion. After that he was unbeatable and won back to back run offs. Fizell followed that act with 2 back to back wins of his own. In the years we did not win, we finished second with the Z12s.

I think this is the car that started it all.

Steve, that is interesting. My memory is not perfect but I did remember the cars from the 78 runoffs. Until I saw those cars I was never convinced that zero roll was any better than the Z bar. Watching the Z12, I knew any new car had to be zero roll.

"SPR was Salt and Pepper Racing "

Greg, I remember that now that you mention it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BLS

Steve, that is interesting. My memory is not perfect but I did remember the cars from the 78 runoffs. Until I saw those cars I was never convinced that zero roll was any better than the Z bar. Watching the Z12, I knew any new car had to be zero roll.

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I remember seeing the parts that Ed built for a push rod, zero roll, shock setup on the original Z4 FV (or what ever he called it). That was in 1974.

I drove the very first Z12 and it was not very fun. The roll bar was even with the fan housing and the rear suspension was Z-bar with the shocks mounted even with the roll bar, forward of the engine, at the outer corners of the frame. That is why the frame is so wide. If you look close at this car you might see remnants of the original setup.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by problemchild

SPR was Salt and Pepper Racing ....a reference to the make up of his crew. I believe that Fizell's car had won the Runoffs several times before he got it. I think it was the same Zink driven by Moore.

This car came from Vermont. Many of the Z-12s got updated with a Citation zero-roll rear suspension but some NEDIV cars got D-13 rear suspension, as this one did.

Siebenaler was no more or less dominant when he switched from his Z-12 to his Mysterian. Either way, he was good for 5 or 6 National wins per year.

This could be a killer car in the right hands, and a decent car in anyone's hands.

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You should know, I bought it from you!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by S Lathrop

I think this is the car that started it all.

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There was another (white) one with D13 rear end that was owned by Bob ? in 1985, raced by Terry Thomas in 86, and then disappeaed into garage queen status.

Greg,

Is this the Siebenaler car?

Guy.

Quote:

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I remember seeing the parts that Ed built for a push rod, zero roll, shock setup on the original Z4 FV (or what ever he called it). That was in 1974.

I drove the very first Z12 and it was not very fun. The roll bar was even with the fan housing and the rear suspension was Z-bar with the shocks mounted even with the roll bar, forward of the engine, at the outer corners of the frame. That is why the frame is so wide. If you look close at this car you might see remnants of the original setup.

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I have a "brand new still in the box" Carrera shock and parts I designed to convert the old Zink to zero roll after seeing the Z12 with zero roll. This was 1978. Decided to build a new car* and never used the parts, or finished the new car...

I do remember the original design. I did not like it in the begining. IIRC, John Gaither bought one of the first few built. Rollin Butler transferred the parts from his old car to the new one. After crashing my first car I bought Johns Z4 (or whatever) frame to replace mine.

*I am out in the garage today carefully measuring the transaxle for the new and improved 2012 design. As soon as I decided to get back in, time seems to have disappeared. This might turn into a 2013 car...

Guy,
You are the perfect size for this car. It would be quick at Road America too.

No it is not Siebenaler's car. This came from upstate Vermot.

Greg,

I liked the car when I saw it in your shop a few years ago and I’d love to buy it. But it’s come up you for sale at the wrong time; I’ve got nowhere to put it and too many projects on the go.

Guy.

Is the front beam welded into the chassis in this car?

G.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gbmetcalf

Is the front beam welded into the chassis in this car?

G.

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As opposed to bolted? You do mean the tab the steering mech is attached to?

Yes as opposed to being bolted. From the photo it looks like the 1" tubing that goes out tward the shock uprights is weldedto the beams, Or is that just my eyes playing tricks on me?

G.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mark5pa

As opposed to bolted? You do mean the tab the steering mech is attached to?

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All the Z12 have the front beams welded to the frame. Tthe mounting blocks for the steering bell cranks are also welded to the front beam.

We had very few incidents where we had to replace the front beam. But I did change the system on the next design.

You can turn it into this -- and I think it will be competitive at any level.

[IMG]file:///Users/jimoseth-2/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]

looking at the pictures you posted, it looks like the upper frame rails are bent by the right front wheel. I was thinking it was the camera angle , but it seems to be bent in both photo's. from the front , and the rear. Is the frame bent or twisted? sorry to bring this up, but would like to know.

Protoform,

I hope it's an optical illusion or can be fixed easy enough?

In my opinion these cars are true sleepers. If you can fit in one they are very fast with the Zink zero roll system, both in cornering ability and in straight line speed.

The Wayne Moore / Fizell Z -12's were modified by Les Parker. I believe Les changed the front cowl shape and lowered the rear of the car, including the roll bar. They were, in any case, different from the standard Z-12's. Even so the standard Z-12 is a terrific car and would/will be competitive with proper engine at Road America or Topeka.

BTW, Fizell may have 3 Runoffs victorys in a Z-12 if he hadn't missed/forgotten the 3rd to 4th shift on the last lap.

SteveO

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Amon

Protoform,

I hope it's an optical illusion or can be fixed easy enough?

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I checked, the top right rail is bent. If I remember, Greg told me the frame was true, and the damage happen from a hit by another car. Not sure though.

Mark, You've got nothing to apologise for. None of the previous owners could be bothered to untweek that bar. This is a smokin deal! What do they want for $2500? Its mostly complete with engine and fuel cell. Spring is coming. You'll find a buyer. Cheers!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by problemchild

Mark, You've got nothing to apologise for. None of the previous owners could be bothered to untweek that bar. This is a smokin deal! What do they want for $2500? Its mostly complete with engine and fuel cell. Spring is coming. You'll find a buyer. Cheers!

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Thanks Greg. Have about 10 serious now.

You made it seem Like I did something wrong ,to bring it to the attention that there may be a bend in the frame. I know if I put a car on here for sale, and didn't disclose that it was bent. the people would want there money back, and be upset with me. I still think full disclosure is the best policy. I guess you disagree. I tried to word it as nice as possible. I agree it is still a great deal for someone, but don't shoot me for seeing a possible problem.

I will question the length of time Mark has been storing the car. It only seems like 15 years. I expect it was 2006 rather than 96.

Problemchild Jumped all over me for asking if the frame had a bend by the right front wheel. So I guess were not allowed to ask a question on this forum? since the front beam is welded to the chassis I was wondering if it would matter. I am not sure of the interest Problemchild has with the car. to try and cover something up. I believe it to be fixable or mabey not even affect the handling. I was interested but not so much now. I think it is a great deal best of luck selling it. I know you will at that price. Have a happy new year mark. and Problemchild you don't even know me. so I would appreciate if you would stop the remarks.thanks to all on this outstanding forum PS I have only asked 2 questions in here on cars for sale and I purchased both of them

The real issue here is whether the beam is bent. If the beam is bent, it will have to be replaced. You can buy a beam prepared for a Citation with the steering blocks installed. Bob Lybarger has them or can get them. If the beam is fine, then the bent tube is cosmetic.

The trick is welding the top rails to the beam. In the later cars, I welded a box section to the beam and then welded the beam into the frame. The upper rails were welded to the box section. The box section eliminated the problem of welding in the area of the trailing arm bearings. None of this is difficult for a compitent TIG welder.

Steve,

If the upper frame rail is bent, and the beam attaches to the front of the frame
near the bend, wouldn't that effect the wheelbase on the right side of the car
as compared to the drivers left side? Could it also change the castor if the bend
was also toward the top of the frame?

Thanks!

Mark

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Amon

Steve,

If the upper frame rail is bent, and the beam attaches to the front of the frame
near the bend, wouldn't that effect the wheelbase on the right side of the car
as compared to the drivers left side? Could it also change the castor if the bend
was also toward the top of the frame?

Thanks!

Mark

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The top rail is 18 ga MS the bend is most likely that tube stretching. When you bend the beam, you get both the top rails.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by problemchild

I will question the length of time Mark has been storing the car. It only seems like 15 years. I expect it was 2006 rather than 96.

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Duh! It was '06.
I have some good solid leads now. Even a guy in Vancouver! He has a few he rents out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mark5pa

Even a guy in Vancouver! He has a few he rents out.

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ah! It was only a matter of time :)

(it ain't me..)

You know, if the monoposto guys ever realize that plenty of FV's were built after 1968 and that a secondary time frame/rules FV class (much like the VARA guys) would bring them loads of entries (beyonds the loads they have now), this car would be a fantastic vintage FV.

Hell, as Steve O pointed out, put a good engine, fresh tires and a hot shoe in this car and it could be at the pointy end of the Runoffs.

For $2,500, I'm really surprised this car hasn't been snapped up already.

Bill,

The Monoposto guys are more concerned about their investment than number
of entries. The FF guys have finally added CF in some area's but it has taken
years for that to happen and they have to run on treaded tires that aren't period
correct for their cars.

Mark

Car is going to Rochester this Saturday. Got my asking $ plus $100 for gas to run it up to him.
Thanks to all those who posted and called inquired.
Mark

Quote:

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Originally Posted by S Lathrop

I remember seeing the parts that Ed built for a push rod, zero roll, shock setup on the original Z4 FV (or what ever he called it). That was in 1974.

I drove the very first Z12 and it was not very fun. The roll bar was even with the fan housing and the rear suspension was Z-bar with the shocks mounted even with the roll bar, forward of the engine, at the outer corners of the frame. That is why the frame is so wide. If you look close at this car you might see remnants of the original setup.

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I haven't logged into this site for a long time, so just saw this thread. I bought the first customer car from Ed and Harry in late '75 for the '76 season. Rollin Butler assembled it. Steve had the only other one. I drove both cars that year all over the place trying to get to the RUnoff's in the days when only 4 drivers per region earned an invite. I just missed. The car was a real frustration all year though we tried very hard. I sold mine at the end of the season and moved up to FF in Z10 - which I loved and had some success with. My Z12 eventually ended up with George Fizell who modified it for the correct rear suspension and for better cooling - as I recall. The rest is history. That same car is now the one owned by Mr. Oseth. I got to see it at Roebling during the 45th FV Birthday party. I'm glad the car turned out right, but I sure wish that had happened in '76. The Brookshire Agitator was dominent that year. Jim won a well deserved championship in '76.

Being a "Monoposto Guy", I'd like to respond to your previous comments.

We have considered extending the date of manufacture for our vintage vee fields.
#1 We just aren't getting a whole lot of inquiries from owners of cars made after 1969 that want to play.
#2 There doesn't seem to be a shortage of monoposto cars yet, as our fields continue to thrive. We'll have at least 30 at Gingerman May 5.
#3 Our group agrees that one of the attractive features of VSCDA Vintage Vees is having a single class on the track. You don't find this around much anymore, in any kind of road racing.

That said, we know eventually it will happen. We just don't know when.

Regarding our "investments", I really don't think extending the date of manufacture will have any affect on our cars' worth. A monoposto vintage vee costs about the same as any other vee. Levels of preparation taken into account, just the same as others. They are hardly "investments".
:D

Ricky

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rickydel

Being a "Monoposto Guy", I'd like to respond to your previous comments.

We have considered extending the date of manufacture for our vintage vee fields.
#1 We just aren't getting a whole lot of inquiries from owners of cars made after 1969 that want to play.
#2 There doesn't seem to be a shortage of monoposto cars yet, as our fields continue to thrive. We'll have at least 30 at Gingerman May 5.
#3 Our group agrees that one of the attractive features of VSCDA Vintage Vees is having a single class on the track. You don't find this around much anymore, in any kind of road racing.

That said, we know eventually it will happen. We just don't know when.

Regarding our "investments", I really don't think extending the date of manufacture will have any affect on our cars' worth. A monoposto vintage vee costs about the same as any other vee. Levels of preparation taken into account, just the same as others. They are hardly "investments".
:D

Ricky

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I owned 2 Zink C4 Zink FVs. One was a 1969 and the other was a 1973. How do you know when a car was built? I know the differences between the '69 and the '73 cars but most people would not. Zink never marked the frames as to when they were built. Zink's records only counted the number of frames they sold. Also many earlier Zink FV were modified to to take the later body work.

The 1968 and earlier Zink FVs had to have their frames replaced because of a change in the rules interpertation. If someone replaced the frame in 1970 would that car be legal?

Maybe you might consider extending the date for cars that were in production prior to 1969.

Hi Steve,

Actually, the Zink you used to own, restored by Bob Shedd and vintage raced by Phil Cull for many years, has a new owner in Indiana, and will be in our drivers school this coming weekend.

When a vee has it's production run starting before 1970, the same basic designs are allowed for cars produced after 1969. The cars do need to be back dated to 1969 rules though. Fans, working generators, no 0 roll resistance suspensions......

Ricky