Latest news on LimeRock "club"

The latest news on Skipy's summer camp for wayward boys.



Date Tues Dec 19th


Members & Prospective Members:

Please read the enclosed. We have commenced track operations and we have 103 and counting.

Please email or call me if you have any questions. Happy Holiday's!

Stephan Condodemetraky
Member #


NEWS RELEASE

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


THE CLUB AT LIME ROCK PARK BREAKS ESCROW
AND COMMENCES OPERATIONS

Track Upgrades to Begin This Winter


Lakeville, CT – (December 19, 2007) Skip Barber, President of Lime Rock Park, has announced the Club at Lime Rock Park (The Club) www.limerockclub.com has broken escrow and officially commenced operations. At a member meeting and holiday party held this past weekend, Barber announced the 2008 schedule of 60 member track dates, with more than 40 dates scheduled for the months of May, June, July, August, and September. Barber also announced Lime Rock Park has hired a general contractor, Mohawk Construction out of New Britain, Connecticut, and they expect to announce the selection of a paving contractor soon. Site preparation to upgrade the track will begin this winter.

“We are very pleased to have more than one hundred member commitments,” said Barber, “and we are equally excited to break escrow and begin major renovations on our historic, fifty-year-old track. Earthwork will begin soon and we will complete many of the track upgrades by the end of 2008.”

Construction is being funded by revenue raised through the sale of Club memberships. When Barber unveiled The Club last summer, he stated that 300 memberships would be sold to raise funds for track and facility improvements, and to preserve Lime Rock Park as the Northeast’s premier race course for the next fifty years.
-more-

Club at LRP Breaks Escrow
December 19, 2007
Page 2

Barber said a topographical survey of the track has been completed and preliminary engineering work is underway.

“We will not change the character of the track, but I believe we can make it a little slower and safer, as well as wider and smoother.” After the paving company is selected, Barber will announce the paving schedule.

One of the Club’s initial members, John Steinmetz, said, “This is an exciting announcement for members. It’s so rewarding to see our efforts coming to fruition, and it’s comforting to know that Lime Rock Park will be spared the fate of other tracks that have become golf courses and housing developments.”

The improved Lime Rock Park will feature a member clubhouse, renovated press facility, exclusive members pit lane, renovated bathrooms, and new water/drainage systems.

Lime Rock Park is nestled comfortably in the lush green foothills of the Berkshire Mountains, and is undoubtedly one of the most beautiful and historic road racing facilities in North America, a perfect setting for a motor sport club and the only one currently open in the Northeast. Barber said it is critically important to him that Lime Rock Park is significantly improved without losing any of its charm or character, something he has strived to achieve with the many track improvements made thus far.

Memberships to the The Club carry a one-time fee of $110,000 which includes applicable Connecticut Dues Tax of $10,000. The length of membership is fifty years, and can be passed down in the immediate family or resold through The Club.

For more information, or to request an interview with Skip Barber, please contact Scott Tranchemontagne or Deb Daigle at 603-644-3200, or visit www.limerockclub.com.

So, are we headed for the day when you will need $100,000 to join YOUR race track plus the cost of the equipment to go road racing? :thumbsdown:

Or maybe what we need is a nationwide 'chain' of race tracks (like the PGA golf courses). You buy a membership for $250,000 then you get a card that allows you to race (play) at any of the member tracks. Bahh... :blackflag:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rickb99

<snip>Or maybe what we need is a nationwide 'chain' of race tracks (like the PGA golf courses). <snip>

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I thought golf carts were Golf Course race cars? If it has wheels.....!

"The improved Lime Rock Park will feature a <snip> exclusive members pit lane ..."

How the heck are they going to squeeze THAT in? Maybe a new pit lane off the back straight??

“We will not change the character of the track, but I believe we can make it a little slower and safer, as well as wider and smoother.”

That sounds odd also. Speed bumps? A chicane right before West Bend? Well, that was facetious, but will they try something like slowing West Bend? Weird.


Jim

I heard a few other things through the grape vine.


* The infield and off track areas will have all the dirt removed and replaced with recycled sponges to prevent scratching paint.

* The members only pitlane will have a car wash at the entrance and exit.

* There will be a "secretary/piece-on-the-side" private viewing platform and changing room at 49.95 per hour.

* There is a proposed speed limit on the uphill with on optional chicane to access a cog-train to navigate the hill for those who do not want to have too much load on thier suspension components.

* Each pit stall will have flowers, cologne and hairspray.

* I would rather burn in hell, this makes me ill.

Lets all hope Skip does not destroy the place while slowing it down for his vintage folks. Just greatful I got to race at Lime Rock while it was still Lime Rock.


Ed

Smoother, wider, slower, safer would be nice. Hopefully with better run-off and barriers too.

I hope bulk of the expenditure goes in to this area and not into the luxury club centric/comfort ammenities. Unfortunly, I fear this may not be the case.

Making the track SLOWER?

I was under the impression that the primary idea of racing is to see who is the FASTEST.

What am I missing? (other than $110K)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rickjohnson356

Making the track SLOWER?

I was under the impression that the primary idea of racing is to see who is the FASTEST.

What am I missing? (other than $110K)

---

The $550 monthly dues? :)

You guys haven't thought of the worst part of this. If you need to talk with your lawyer, stock broker or doctor, you better hope you can hear him over the engine noises.

"but I believe we can make it a little slower"

Perhaps they should use cars with brakes....

I know hydraulic brakes are just a fad but maybe they should try them (I think some of the F1 teams use them)

"The improved Lime Rock....." ?
Bloody hell.......
Steinmetz [SRF] as a spokesperson ? Please.....
"Smoother, wider, slower, safer would be nice". ? "Better runoff and Barriers to " ?WTF....Maybe you should just not race at all......
This is a steep, slippery slope and "they" are gaining momentum fast.
This is worse than sad.......

Rand,
When are you going to tell us how you really feel? ;)

Every time someone talks to me about converting my DB-6 from FC to FF(where it would be worth more) I respond that it is morally wrong to spend money to slow a car down. The same applys to a scarce resource like a race track. If you don't have tracks that seperate the men from the boys then only the rich guys get to think they have ability.

Slower and Safer, what the $#%& does that have to do with racing? If that is the plan Skip, you should just go ahead and make it a golf course aready, that should be slow and safe enough. Maybe we should have a memorial at the church across the street for Lime Rock the day they start moving earth for the improved track.

Ed

So why would LRP need to be slowed down? Because Skip know a good percent will be fools out there who will bring the porsche and just drive way over their heads. Because if you drive on a race track you can wear fancy t-shirts and caps and tell your friends you are a race driver.

To me racing started going down at lime rock after Charlie Gibson stopped running the Vintage Fall Festival. That is how I came to find out about road racing. Soon after I saw some friends and old timers finding themselves not welcome there. That began to turn me off.

Really, how long before the prime spot on the hill will be a condo? But if that is what is takes to keep it from a golf course then so be it.

I'd rather see the who place gone private, and leave the track configuration. So if I bring my son there when I am old I can say," This guy Mike Rand passed me in the rain going down that hill so fast I thought I dopped an anchor out the back".

Rumor is that the "slowing of the track" will be done with a series of chicanes off the main track. The "origional" track layout will not change. The issue here is the fact that SCCA will only have 4 dates for 08. Will SCCA have 4 dates in 09? or will there be enough fat ass "club" members that push us out all together. Now that I think about it,...will there be a second issue with a mandate that WE have to use those "chicanes" for insurance purposes? The more I think about this mess, the more I think I would rather see LRP die a gracefull death like Bridgehampton than see it relagated to being an autocross track for a bunch of wanker old rich guys in Ferrari's.

BTW: Joe, The "hay day" of LimeRock when Charlie ran the Fall Festival was when Rand ran the track. LRP took a $hit when Rand left. He was the only guy that knew how to run the place. It sucked before him and after.

Hey I love LRP and don't like what I'm reading either. I tend to agree with Rand and Callo. But I think it is a little early to go nuts. As far as slowing the track down: does that mean there will be a permenant chicane installed or will it be "configuration optional" much like the optional uphill chicane that already exists but the SCCA never uses? I'm betting it will be for club members only and we'll never turn a wheel on it.

As far a running a country club at the track: this is not a new idea. Some of the western tracks exist solely as C/C tracks but guess what... the SCCA has events there. I'm not convinced that all of this is leading to the demise of LRP. As an eternal pessimist it is easy for me to have a melt down about the demise of my favorite track in the world. I'm really trying to see the positives here. We get a newly, and, hopefully, properly this time, repaved track; better bathrooms; perhaps less $ in entry fee as a new revenue streem is introduced. I know loosing 60 days a year seems bad but I'm hoping they're midweek days and not weekend days. I really am hoping this is not going to impact the average racer that much. There will be fewer dates. But LRP had a lot of dates already. LRP will now have a similar amount of date as all of the other tracks in the NE.

Just hoping out loud here. Not looking for a fight but if need be BRING IT!!

SEM
Enjoy the holidays and the new year fellow Apexers!!

Maxi, There is no fight here. It's not like this is some bull$hit SCCA rules proposal or mandate. It's Skips track and he can do with it what he wants. I just think with the ownership of a place like LRP, there comes a responsibality to the sport and it's history. Without LRP there would be a LOT of empty pages in the big book of American road racing history. Do you have the Bridgehampton book? The last page is a picture of a ****ing putting green! There are 130 "members" right now ($14.3 million). The "managment" is pushing this thing VERY hard. When they hit the 300 member mark, do you think they will stop? I don't think so. More members will want more "dates" to wank around the place and that will push out the rest of "us"! BTW: "lower track rental for us" Please !

Hey Mike,

Yeah, Just kidding about the fight thing! I feel the same way but I'm trying to stay positive. Also notice the post times of our messages. We were typing at the same time! And making similar points. I fear that you hit the nail on the head. I guess time will tell....

SEM

I have read the prior posts with some sadness as I see the change is inevitable..it's all about money..those who have it get to do it their way and the rest who don't have to make do or go elsewhere. I first learned the basics at Lime Rock in the Skippy school in Nov82. Since that time I have driven FA SRF S2 F500 ITC GT2 GT4 over a period of years from 1983 to 2007 with a 13yr layoff in between. When I wasnt racing I attended the IMSA events

( Mr. Bishop had his office next to mine in Fairfield and I always loved the GTP cars) I also attended the Fall Vintage festival as I also knew Charlie Gibson. I have so many great memories from that place that I hate to see it change for the worse. In a 84 flip in the FA I left 4" of my left arm between the Uphill and West Bend so I have really a part of me at Lime Rock. Since I will never have the money to join the "club" especially being retired now I do hope they will continue to allow SCCA racing at LRP with entry fees we can afford.

Steve, you just stay snuggled up there in the Maxi Pad in Vermont and keep thinking positive thoughts for all of us.

Ed

No sweat Eddie! Brrrrrr....

Maybee you just need to realign your shakras to somehow feel the good JuJu or whatever....

SEM

Steve, Eddie and Agnif:

How about some Chimay Blue at the karting track??

Maxi-pad cool, who thought of that?


John D.

Sounds good to me, I am up for some karting at Wallingford. I guess we will see what LRP has in store for us when we get there.

Thanks Agnif, but you are well old enough to remember my mentor Jim Haynes. He is the guy who set the standard that I tried to live up to. And he spent more time and energy trying to make it work than any one person. Jim ran the place for around 25 years and while Skip has owned it since 1985 he has only recently, like the last 2-3 years, really gotten involved.
All we can hope for is that they make the alternate corner configurations in such a way that Classic Lime Rock is unaffected, as Steve mentions, but I have little faith in that happening.
It just might be the TEST that made Lime Rock what it was will be no more.
But at least all us adrenaline junkies have still Mosport to see if we really want to drive race cars....

I got the following from someone in my region on our public forum. MoHud has always had a close relationship with Lime Rock but I don't know where this person got his info so let's just say this might be closer to conjecture.

This person wrote, "As for the changes -- rumor is that Skip feels the downhill is not meant to be taken flat out and it needs to be changed."

I'm sure that will make a lot of people less than merry.

Jim

I am not sure who will read this far...but I just got really pissed off.

You know, we fight to keep race tracks. We fight towns. New neighbors move in next door and start trouble to close tracks. We fight developers who want to build malls and condos.

Now, a supposed group of wealthy car enthusiasts are chucking up money to preserve LRP from going under to development, and they CHANGE THE GOD DAMN TRACK?

So to preserve a historic building, do tear off all the origonal siding and put on Sears vinyl?

Would these same wealthy investors change the 18th at Pebble Beach to make it easier?

FYI - I spent about 2 hours at this years Friday Fall Festival and left. I was looking at a driver getting into what I think was a Ferrari 312. He was complaining to his mechanics that he needed help putting on his hans. Not nicely of course, a rude SOB. Then he barely fit behing the wheel at 300+ and proceeded to complain about the driving position. Sickened I walked away and found an old 30's MG powered special, origonal condition. I asked the owner what the car was and a little about it's history and where he may have found it. This guy had absolutely no interest in talking about the car. He said " its an old car with an MG engine" and walked away. So I took my ass out of there and went home to my kids.

Now these same guys are going to have their own pitlane for me to stay out of? I wonder if they will have a "members only water fountain" too.

NNJM has a couple SCCA dates in 2008. I think I'll go there for 1000.00 rather than giving my dollars to these guys so they can make a profit in order to get rid of me. I can take a hint.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EACIII

Lets all hope Skip does not destroy the place while slowing it down for his vintage folks. Just greatful I got to race at Lime Rock while it was still Lime Rock.


Ed

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Ed
I share your sentiments. I happened to be watching the "Going Faster" video while on my treadmill and was thinking of how LRP looked in that video (the way it looked when I first raced there) vs how it looks today with all the concrete patches, removal of the rest rOOm sign that you could use aiming for the correct position on the short chute to be in before turning for the left hander, the white line in the middle of the track on the uphill where you could have a last minute check to see if a correction was needed before exiting at crest of the hill etc. I too am glad to have raced at Lime Rock before these "improvements"
The other Ed in CT

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Michael Rand

Thanks Agnif, but you are well old enough to remember my mentor Jim Haynes. He is the guy who set the standard that I tried to live up to. And he spent more time and energy trying to make it work than any one person. Jim ran the place for around 25 years and while Skip has owned it since 1985 he has only recently, like the last 2-3 years, really gotten involved.
All we can hope for is that they make the alternate corner configurations in such a way that Classic Lime Rock is unaffected, as Steve mentions, but I have little faith in that happening.
It just might be the TEST that made Lime Rock what it was will be no more.
But at least all us adrenaline junkies have still Mosport to see if we really want to drive race cars....

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Rand, Jim did a good job no doubt. You were the guy that ran the place with passion. Mismanagement after you is what has brought LRP to this "chapter" in it's life in my opinion. There is NO reason the place should not be profitable as it sits right now except for mismanagement and lack of passion!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jim Garry

"As for the changes -- rumor is that Skip feels the downhill is not meant to be taken flat out and it needs to be changed."

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wow and all this time i though skip actually had a set :thumbsdown:

Here's a tip for all the "club" drivers (I won't call them racers) who don't thing the downhill should be taken flat. Just push the pedal on the right only halfway down. See simple and no need to change the track for you. They can tell their co-worker on the trading floor on Monday they did it flat, we won't tell anyone. When we start to slow tracks down to the level of the drivers the end is near.

Can someone clear this up for me. IF you get pushed off line and have to use the members only, reserved, eingang verboten lane do you automatically have to pay the $110,000? What if during a black-flag-all event the pit marshall inadvertently sends the whole field down that lane? Does Skip make upwards of 3Mill in a weekend, without even trying? I assume the 10K CT tax part of that expenditure is tax deductable. Anyone know?

Rand is going to go through a lot of suspension pieces if they truly tighten up the downhill. I doubt he can lift his right sneaker in that part of the world even on foot. Anyone ever see him walking through there? Probably develops a limp of some sort.

Wallingford? When? Eddie, John, Call me if you go. I am in the book.

Count me if if you guys hit the Karting track in Wallingford....

You've got to be sh***ing me. SLOWER? Even when my wife (x-IT racer) read the press release, she said SLOWER!!?? The down hill was her favorite place to build momentum for a front straight pass.

I also spent time this year testing and taking a Skippy School late in the year so that I could get into the 56's along with Rand. NOW you're telling me it will be SLOWER.

We all remember the Golden Rule. He who has the gold, rules. Just great! :mad: I agree with everything that others have said. With Charlie gone and Rand out of the picture, the whole place has gone to hell in the proverbial hand basket. Just what we need. More rich lawyers and insurance execs controlling our future. :thumbsdown:

Let's hope that the Palmer track makes it onto the scene before LRP is off the schedule.

Don

Hopefully, Palmer track will open spring 2010. We'll have some lengthy discussions at the NER meeting.

As seen on CNBC's High net worth. The "push" is on!


http://www.limerockclub.com/media/cnbc_interview.asp

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stonebridge20

As seen on CNBC's High net worth. The "push" is on!


http://www.limerockclub.com/media/cnbc_interview.asp

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I almost puked... ("this is what 110 feels like..my heart is pounding!) Hell, I was doing 170 about five hours ago! (I know I know...)

Consider Limerock gone. I'll never know the feeling of going down the hill flat out... :(

And I thought Skip was a racer at heart. Nope, not anymore at least.

All that's left to do now is create another great American track. Where will it be?

If you look in the right hand column at their text, this is what gives it away....

"Participate in "gentlemen's competitions"

That leaves out 85% of the Forum members here :)

I really like the "advanced safety equipment" that skip is using. I always knew roll bars were just extra weight!!
I wonder when the speed limit signs go up. 55 or 65?

Having taken the downhill flat in T644HU01 and T644HU02, I can tell you it was a blast

Try the place "flat" all the way around (circa 1994) except from the first apex of big bend to the track out in a Swift DB4. It produces a lap time of about :47:4?? One of my fondest memories!

Agnif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stonebridge20

Try the place "flat" all the way around (circa 1994) except from the first apex of big bend to the track out in a Swift DB4. It produces a lap time of about :47:4?? One of my fondest memories!

Agnif

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too freakin cool!

To read what is going on at Lime Rock, like I guess many others in this forum, I have read about Lime Rock in magazines, and is a track I would liked to have raced on, if I could ever get to the States to do a raceing holiday, by what has been said here, that dream has now gone,who is this Skip Barber, some kind of failed race driver turned teacher, they always say "those that can, do, those that can't teach!" or am I being a little hard? to fast down hill :ha: race like gentleman, what bulls***t, most of the old guys I know are going faster as they get older, the reason being, it hurts being strapped in a race car, so they have to finish the race quicker, to get out :ha: the guts of this is, if things like this are allowed to happen you all might be racing zimmer frames soon.
Roger

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rickb99

If you look in the right hand column at their text, this is what gives it away....

"Participate in "gentlemen's competitions"

That leaves out 85% of the Forum members here :)

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:thumbsup: :D

If Skippy feels the down hill is not meant to be taken flat then I suggest that in the redesign they simply bank it. Problem solved and we get to pull even more G's. :D

Skippy may also have a vested interest as in my skippy schools there that seemed to be the one that claimed the most cars and parts. They would either hit the outside wall or the end of pit entrance. In my classes I saw 4 cars lunched there.

With due respect, taking the downhill "flat" is a function of tires and car set up. Not all classes can take it flat, and in FV right now buying a new set of tires allows most to take it "flat" while a few heat cycles and there is a lift somewhere...

And if you ever want to see excitement, watch Mike Rand in the downhill in the rain- amazing....spectacular....but not "flat".

After the track was paved in the early 90's it was so smooth that the FV record was in the 59s! With the same track and today's FV development, we would be in the 58s.

I will reserve comment until I have seen the changes. I have "driven" (don't ask how) the golf course at Bridgehampton and it makes me sick . I miss the old Bryar and Thompson (the last one, not the origional, I am not THAT old). I hate the bus stop at the Glen, but I am sure no one has stopped racing there becuse of it - and it may have taken way a turn even greater than the downhill at LR.

If I get priced out of Lime Rock - oh well - it was a great 30 years. If Palmer takes it's place, or the new NJ track that's life. Right now I would be more worried about NHIS in 2009.

PS - As far as Skip's driving talent - maybe Mike Rand can chime in on that. There have been driving schools started by people with less that stellar credentials, but I don't think Skip is in that catagory.

ChrisZ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_Barber

Some privateer races in F1 and of course the Formula Ford titles in SCCA. According to Wiki

Regarding Skip, he really was as good as America produced in the mid-late 1960's, all pretty much on a shoestring and bad checks, just like the rest of us. From early Can Am days in an outdated McLaren Mk1B through FB in borrowed Marches to the FF double National Championships in 1969 and 1970 then on to F1, and F5000, with that same car [F5000 then allowed 3 liter racing engines, ie Cosworth DFV F1 motors, against 5 liter stoock block pushrod motors] he was ranked right there with all but the very best like Gurney et al.
So while I have significant issues with the direction he is taking Lime Rock, to the point where I will not be involved there anymore, I can take nothing away from his driving career.
His few appearances in F1 were as much a function of money as anything else. A privateer March in 1971 was hardly sharp end of the grid stuff and it did respectably over here in F5000.
Nope, I can say nothing even remotely disparaging about his driving skills and career.
Wish I could say the same about his Lime Rock efforts but we, he and I, seem to be on quickly diverging paths right now.

I mentioned I'd rather see the track go 100% private than semi private and the layout changed.

Agnif has some experience with track day customers. And while I used to do it with an MGB. Jumping into todays cars with no safety equipment is pretty dumb. Especially the Porsche, Vette and Ferrari level cars. Add to it "I have the money to fix it if I crash it" mentality and I feel it could be scary.

From my understanding of a story of a track day customer, there is a dad home for Christmas because of Agnif's racing experience and demanding a rollbar be installed on a track day car.

Maybe the airbags would help more than an old MGB, But they don't help when you are upside down or when someone Tbones you because they were changing the radio station while going under the Bridge.