Collect lap times for different tracks with the latest version of the mod here...
Limerock: 55.398
Watkins Glen: 1:15.757
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Collect lap times for different tracks with the latest version of the mod here...
Limerock: 55.398
Watkins Glen: 1:15.757
Hi guys! Here are sel and i best laps we got on IRF with the Pinto beta.
Becancour; Mart Bee: 1'10"513, sel: 1'11"101
Lime Rock; sel: '55"443, Mart Bee: '55"731
Mosport; sel: 1'24"019, Mart Bee: 1'25"227
Portland; Mart Bee: 1'19'394, sel: 1'20"169
Sears; Mart Bee: 1'16"562, sel: 1'16"619
What a blast this mod is!! So, any real F2000 boys want to challenge us? lol
Merry Christams everyone!
Martin
I have yet to see ANY road racing on IRF. When do people other then the NASCAR crowd ever go on there?
Guess I need to find 6 or 7 seconds at Mosport. Oh boy.
2, 5A and 5B are kickng my butt.
http://www.mosport.com/graphics/trackmap.gif
1.28.167 at Mosport. Got turn 2 figured out but now that I'm faster into 3 that turn is taking a fall, 5a and 5b seem a little better too.
I just ran a 1:23.002 at Mostport, and there is still room left in the driver's ability to get faster... looks like you have a bit more work to do before Saturday, Dave. ;)
Doug.. Hope you didn't sneek a "Z" engine in your car.
I've changed my Mosport setup after much testing tonight. Can run low/mid 1:25's all day. Had a couple in the 1:24's. But 1:23???
Turn 2 will bite you if you're even slightly off the line.
5A and B are second gear corners.. easy.. LOL
ONE thing I've found that helps. Run some laps then watch the replay in TV mode. You can see where you're loosing time. AND.. chase your own ghost car to find those missing seconds. BUT 1:23 ???
Did some testing at Road America too. I had a ghost car from the original mod with the BIG engine on file and chased it around. It pulled me on every straight by .3 to .5 seconds. But the new car handles much better. Couldn't catch it but lap times were within .8 seconds. Ahh but for a few more horsepower and a little torque.
[size="1"][ December 25, 2002, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: rickb99 ][/size]
Not looking for ultimate lap records for this. Numbers from 2002 and 2001 National events. 2001 used if 2002 was a slow year. I show 1st place but second was only slightly slower.
Somebody is gonna say somebody done better. But these are RACING laps.
Portland: 1:17.907
Laguna: 1:28.37
Sears Point 2001: 1:14.224
Sebring (long course short course??): 2:02.9
Road Atlanta: 1.27.329
Limerock: 0:51.871
Watkins Glen 2001: Invalid, they don't run same course as SIM 1:53.868
Mosport: 1:22.635
Road America: 2:17.704
Mid-Ohio... Oh wait, we don't have this track. darn!
NOW THE REALLY GOOD NEWS: The SIM is slow by just about the amount of horsepower and torque we gave up in version 2. Making up the 1,2,3 seconds a lap will require the 'missing' horsepower and torque because the new car corners about as good as the real thing! More HP and T aren't going to help the cornering of version 2 cars.
When "Zetec" Carter raced the other night, he was pulling about .2 to .55 or .6 seconds better then the rest of the cars on medium and long straights. He was giving it up in some corners but low speed acculeration was better and his top end was wiping us out.
NOTE: Laguna differential cannot be fixed with car. The missing time is in the difficult to model corkscrew section in the track itself. Rest of the time is in the 'old' layout turn 7. Should be able to take it under full acculeration. But the SIM has it slightly more off camber then it really is. I'm sure the modeler did his best. Great course.
We should be able to run at or slightly better then reality. After all, we're sitting here relaxed with a cup of coffee and the dog at our feet. AND you won't have to worry about updating the mod when somebody comes up with a new go-fast trick in F2000.
COMMENT: You guys are doing such a great job on this, I hope you don't rush through a fix for release ahead of your schedule. I know you wanted to update menus and stuff to keep this mod as professional looking as your others. We'll just suffer and complain until you get it the way YOU want it.
[size="1"][ December 26, 2002, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: rickb99 ][/size]
Stop it... you're killing me. :-PQuote:
Originally posted by Doug Carter:
I just ran a 1:23.002 at Mostport, and there is still room left in the driver's ability to get faster...
Argghh!
I found this one-lap of Mosport writtin by Sascha Maassen drives the No. 23 McKenna Xybernaut Porsche for Alex Job Racing. It isn't completely usable because he describes 5 gears, but you get the idea...
From my testing on this track, the most important corner to execute is 5B. It is easily the most difficult corner on the track to master, too. Hold a tight, steady line through this corner and drive the car with throttle. A fast exit through here is crucial.Quote:
Mosport is Mosport, it's different. I don't know a track that's similar. It's a very quick track with a lot of high-speed corners. It's pretty bumpy, as well, and it goes up and down. It has everything in it, actually.
Corner number one is a very quick right-hander with an elevation change. It's important to get through this corner, going downhill and uphill again. That leads to corner number two where you have to brake over a crest. You have to brake just before it because if you brake afterwards, you are in big trouble. It's a double-apex left-hander in fifth gear, so very quick.
Corner number three is the first time you have quite heavy braking, down to third gear, right-hander. At the edge of the corner you have to keep the car tight - if you accelerate too early, you run out of road. Then the most interesting corner, four, going left and downhill. If you find the right line, you are incredibly quick there. If you don't find the right line, you are in incredibly big trouble! This corner is really, really quick. It's a fifth-gear corner, then heavy braking uphill toward the slowest corners, 5A and 5B. 5A is in third gear, you brake through 5A into 5B, another right-hander. It's the slowest corner but it's very important for the lap time because after 5B there is the long straight, so you definitely need to accelerate very well out of 5B. It keeps going up and uphill, and you come to some corners that are not really corners. You arrive in sixth gear at the highest speed, which is about 260 kilometres per hour.
Then corner eight, another fifth-gear corner, right-hander. Right after the right-hander, there's a quick left-hander and you have to change down to fourth gear. This one has very slippery tarmac; especially in the rain, it's very tricky. Then you come to the last corner, a right-hander, third gear. It is very bumpy and the grip is also bad. The last two corners have very old tarmac, so that's why they are so slippery.
Unfortunately, the prototypes overtake everywhere at Mosport because they are so much quicker through the quick corners. You look in the mirror when you exit the last one and you don't see anybody, and before the next one they are by. They are so much quicker, you cannot see them coming. It's quite wide so I have no problem, but it's a problem for them if they go offline and try to overtake on the outside!
It's not so easy in GT. If a car can get an advantage in engine performance, it can overtake easier on the straight. But if you have a similar speed, you have to risk a little bit. If you're better through a quick corner, then you have a chance to outbrake them for the next one. Everything always happens at high speed, so it's not an easy thing.
Like always, stay out of trouble is the first thing. And stay ahead.
The other most important corner on this track is the downhill/uphill through turn 2. Turn-in too early here is better than too late. Wait for the car to hit the bump on the entrance and dive right for the inside curbing. It is all timing. Too late and you slide to the outside of the track and scrub off a LOT of speed going uphill into 3.
The last corner, I have found, is faster if you don't downshift to third, but stay in 4th with just a tap of the brakes getting into the corner. It feels slower, but trust me, it isn't. You will cross the S/F line and trip the lap timer with about 10 more mph of speed heading into turn 1.
More later, with a pic to post my lap times here... and you aren't going to be happy. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Doug -
Are you running with 45% "spoiler angle" at Mosport? How much do you change this and the grille tape between tracks?
Great job at Mosport, BTW.
45° spoiler angle here for me, and 70% grille tape at Mosport, for now. You need the downforce for the important corners, and youc an give up a litte top end for those corners.
I'll give you my setups if you want them, later in the week. :D
Looks like you guys have a little work to do before Saturday... oh yeah, there is still more left in the car. ;)
http://www.f2000.com/doug/mosport_records.jpg
Rick, (and all)
Your wish is my command... [img]smile.gif[/img]
After some discussion with Maxx, Doug and Mike,
I am going to make a few minor tweaks,
I am going to up the HP and the torque, as well as increase the rpm.
We will do a very quick test of them and then make the update available to everyone.
It seems that everyone agrees that the cars are under powered a bit and they don't have the snap that they should.
I will work on it in the next day or so and we will get some quick testing in.
We will give you news soon.
ALSO!
Can someone post real world times here at some of the tracks we have for Heat?
It will help greatly in setting the "bar" so we know what we are shoothing for. I was using some PII data that Mike sent us for a couple of tracks but it would be nice to have more to compare.
Thanks
[size="1"][ December 26, 2002, 12:37 AM: Message edited by: RusRob ][/size]
On the final corner, are you guys following the groove, or staying ouside the white line. OK, since we're all inside the white line, are any of you cutting it to the point where you're getting the pit lane speed limit warning? [img]smile.gif[/img]
Sometimes, yes... I am following the grove on the track, for the most part. I don't even recall seeing the white line. :D
d
Don't see the white line at the pit entrance? Hmmm... I'm staying out of your way on Saturday!
Your description of the fast parts is exactly right. If you don't keep your left wheels on the curb (not the grass) through 2 you're in big trouble.
Haven't done any more testing today. Guess I'll have to try increasing the grill tape. Can't imagine where else you're getting the lap times.
I'm flat out in forth along the straight and bends right up to the hard right at the pit entrance. Most certainly have to brake hard. Maybe that's where your high grill tape is helping.
Would you consider sharing your gear set at this point?
[size="1"][ December 26, 2002, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: rickb99 ][/size]
Final Drive: 3.40
1st gear: 1.95
2nd gear: 1.60
3rd gear: 1.30
4th gear: 1.05
My guess is that Doug is not lifting off the throttle from the exit of the hairpin until easing into turn 3.
Don't brake hard, just early. Also, with these gears, you should be hitting third just before the bridge after Moss Corner (5B) and your top speed should be up around 124-125 before you dive into the Esses at turn 9.Quote:
Originally posted by rickb99:
I'm flat out in forth along the straight and bends right up to the hard right at the pit entrance. Most certainly have to brake hard.
The setup here is VERY important... I have this track dialed, and I probably won't do any more until the Saturday warmup. ;) I ran a test session early this morning (10 laps) and all of the laps were UNDER 1:23.200 with a 2 fast laps of 1:22.330.
I will give you the setup for Mosport for Saturday, if you ask nicely. :D
2:21.151 at Road America. Found the demon setup for me so far. Dropped 4 secs just by making one change....
Where'd my life go?
Creeping up:
I've found the very.. very low 1:23's (1:23.072 best) haven't seen a 1:22. I think that has something to do with ZEN driving.
If I wanted to melt the tires? Not sure there's a race worth the 1:22's.
I've moved into the low 125 part of the field.
I could easily improve on that if I could just get 5a and b done the same way two times in a row! :mad:
[size="1"][ December 28, 2002, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Dave ][/size]
Dave,
5A-B is worth a second a lap or more. Watch it on TV replay a few times with you alone and then with other cars around you in a race lap or two. It's really a well defined double apex, but it can't be taken as a sweeper. The car becomes too light cresting the rise in 5A.
Should be able to apply brakes HARD at the end of the wall. Aim for the right hand curbing and ride the right, not the left [img]smile.gif[/img] front tire ON the curb all the way to the second apex. Should be able to do this with no tire squeal and apply power earlier. No fishtailing.
Doug is right about the final turn onto the pit straight too. To be fast you have to stay in fourth and 'double apex' the corner. Turn in at the right wall cutting the pit lane. Straighten slightly not to scrub speed heading for the outside of the track with NO turn on the wheel. Then ease it around down the straight. If done right, when the car is just straightened out, you'll be doing 108 to 110 MPH, depending upon how good you hit the marks. Doing this right is worth a GOOD .75 seconds a lap or more!
If you miss it slightly, you'll be in the 98 to 104 MPH range... BIG difference. If you miss it bad and end up in 3rd, you'll be in the low or mid 90's MPH.
Turn at the end of the straight is flat out in 4th. Try to apex right at the start of the red/white curbing. That apex point is blind until it's too late. So you have to pick a turn in mark on the outside left wall to hit it.
[size="1"][ December 28, 2002, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: rickb99 ][/size]
Finally broke into the 1:22 barrier with a 1:22.9. Not feeling as much of a wank anymore. Turn 5b is still the worst to do consistently.
Can somebody post the set up that they use for Lime Rock?
I've been wearing the Pots out of my Thrustmaster, and can't get below a '57.15
Is the front grill tape setting, actually the front wing setting, and the rear spoiler, the rear wing?
Does anybody know if there is a plan to add in The Late Great Bridgehampton Race Circuit??
Chuck, here is the setting for Limerock that I ran the 55.398 lap with. It is a handful on cold tires, but once warm, it is pretty much neutral slides power on.Quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Redman:
Can somebody post the set up that they use for Lime Rock?
I've been wearing the Pots out of my Thrustmaster, and can't get below a '57.15
Is the front grill tape setting, actually the front wing setting, and the rear spoiler, the rear wing?
And yes, those settings are exactly what you think they are.
http://www.f2000.com/doug/limerock_setup.jpg
Doug,
That is one cool set up!!! Sure feels more like a race car now.
Did a 1:02, then a 1:01 then a 57, then a 55.85 on my 4th lap!!!
Like anything else, the setup is the key for this track. A little patience and experimentation (and writing down what happens when you make ONE change) and you can get quick at any track with any car.
Glad it worked for you. Makes that track more fun, huh? :D
Just thought I'd make a quick comment about TRIM.
It seems that by default for any car, Heat adds a "little bit" of right-hand lock, therefore, with trim at 0.000 and your steering dead-centre, you actually have a small amount of right-hand lock on.
Now, it's quite easy to drive around this as, depending on your wheel lock and steering setup in options it is perhaps only 1/4" out BUT if you set Trim to 0.100 it gets rid of this completely.
I found on some of the other mods (this with less grip and more weight) that having this "little bit" of right-hand lock WAS a problem under braking as the car would pull to one side. It's pretty subtle but might help some people achieve a smoother ride.
Maxx
Malcom, you have mentioned this before, but I haven't found this to be true at any track with any setup. I haven't had any problems with the car pulling or floating to one side or the other. I keep the trim at 000, the braking bias within a cerain percentage window, and the wheel calibrated and the car works fine. I have never touched the trim setting for any road course.
d
Yeah that set up really makes that track fun.... especially big bend.
Last night I got down to a 53.9 in the heat of an online race with a buddy.
Doug,
It's "very" subtle - I only really found it an issue with the in-progress GAL (Golden Age Legends - 1950s GP cars) mod.
Also, you may never spot it at all if you run ANY amount of deadzone anywhere (i.e. in Heat and in Windows [which has 5% controller default]).
I've never found it to particularly effect steering as such but it does effect braking. Maybe it will showup in F2000, find a track with a flat straight (I used Portland as I recall - just turned around at pits and ran it backwards) and set the car up perfectly symetrical (i.e. cambers/springs/dampers/weights). Get the car up to a decent speed [from cold, running may heat tires unevenly] (I've a feeling I ran it up close to 100mph, hands off the wheel and hit the brake.
Now, you are perhaps always going to get some pull to one side but with the GAL cars, at 0.000 Trim, it ALWAYS pulled to the right, quite severly once the momentum had slowed). With 0.100 it was pretty much dead straight, only moving slightly just before the complete stop.
In GAL (and SoH) I did find that having no trim seemed to make the car wander a little on the straights, which I think was more me making very slight corrections to keep it in a straight line and hence shifting weight a little.
If I have time later I may try it in the F2000 mod.
Maxx
Although I am a "newbie" to posts I have watched this forum, as well as the f1600 forum(s), for quite some time.
I have followed the thread on "Racing Simulator" with great interest since its inception.I even went to the extent of buying Nascar Heat and doing all the mods (nocd, paint256 etc.) It took 2 full days to finally get it to work properly.
Once I had it up and running, I downloaded Mosport which is my favorite track (although my last "seat time" there was back in '76)
WHAT A BLAST!
My first question is "How may of you guys doing the sim have actually driven the track lately?".
The second question is "How realistic is the track and your laptimes of ~1:23 to 1:26?"
The third question is "Does the Sim allow race spectators?"
I can do that one...Quote:
Originally posted by Bob McColl:
The third question is "Does the Sim allow race spectators?"
Yes, but you have to be completely set up to race the game/mod. We set up pops on the game/mod so he can step in and watch the races on Saturday. It essentially comes to entering the sessions just like you were racing, and as the drivers set out to qualify, you leave the online session, and then return to the game once it has been closed to new drivers. It will allow you to watch the race from any driver's seat or any of the camera modes by using your F-key controls and the "page up" and "page down" keys to scroll through the field of cars.
Using the TV camera mode is pretty much like watching an FC race on TV. It is very cool and very easy to do. Download Portland for this weekend, and if you don't want to race, come on in as a spectator. You won't be the only one.
doug
Since the thread says lap time and I have finally started to figure out some of these tracks, I am interested in others times (all with the pinto car of course)from a couple of them, particularly,:
Road America ( I'm at 2:15.6)
Lime Rock (Did a 54.7, having a hard time going any faster).
Laguna (Not much time, did a 1:47).
Mosport (1:22.9)
Road Atlanta - (haven't worked on yet, but need to know what to shoot for). Also, on Road Atlanta, has anyone else notice that the track seems to be really rough in turn one and towards 3 (like a washboard effect)? The wheels are moving up and down pretty fast, almost at a wheel hop type frequency, on my computer.
[size="1"][ January 15, 2003, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: Matt Satchell ][/size]
I got down to a 53.6 @ Lime Rock on several occasions. I found Doug's set up to be the key, but I added another 5 Deg to the rear wing (45 deg) which, like the real track, enabled me to go flat from the late apex of the left hander and stay flat through the subsequent right hander, which gives you a good interval time down no-name and flat all the way to the 1 marker for big bend....
While I have this response going, what time do you guys race on Saturdays?? And how do I get logged on??
Chuck,
Get your E-mail address to Doug Carter. He puts out an E-mail notification as to time, server number and password before the race. Usually on Friday.
[size="1"][ January 17, 2003, 02:15 AM: Message edited by: rickb99 ][/size]
Chuck, did you change ANYTHING else to that setup? You are running over a second a lap faster than my fastest time here, and I can't wring anything else out of my car. Quickest I have run is a :54.600 and that was hanging on by my fingertips.Quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Redman:
I got down to a 53.6 @ Lime Rock on several occasions.
I'd love to see your ghost lap for that one... you have to have one corner completely aced.
d
I have tried your setup Myself Doug and the best I could do was a 54.0 and a few 54.1s and I'm flat out after turn 2 all the way to the line no lift no brakes.