FC tire survey e-mail

Rob,

Each time I wrote something on spec tire I realized if anyone got left out it was you based on your tire choice.

As I said before I was making my suggestion on what I personally thought would be the best compromise. The compromise wasn’t meant for myself, it was meant for the class itself. I’ve raced on more different types of tires & compounds on the same car throughout the years & could adapt fairly well. That however was thanks to having a competent prep team & track time. Both cost money. Not saying a Club racer can’t do it, this was just helpful for me.

My attempt was to come up with a workable solution to a bad decision overall. No crying on my end.

Good to hear new blood is getting into racing. Hopefully he loves the sport too. Good luck & hope you have another great season.

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Originally Posted by DaveW

Bob has said most of this, but to summarize...

Bob's decision making was done IN RESPONSE TO, not in spite of, the feelings of drivers and teams that consistently run in the FRP F2K Series. If a majority of those folks had agreed to accept the bias tire he would have also. The decision was NOT giving the finger to SCCA. It was done with a great deal of trepidation and very serious consideration.

FWIW, I told Bob I would be OK with the bias tires even though I have openly favored the radials.

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All good, but the complaint by Allaer was that people were talking about 2 tires and it was ridiculous.

There are other people that have financial interest in what is happening here. There are prep shops and other series that fear their customers will go away if the performance level drops, and again the "Church of FRP" believes they are entitled to do what they want and everyone else should comply. I know, you're Pros and the rest of us are just ignorant clubbers.

Reality check: Y'all never planned to change, just got involved to push for the radial.

Somehow I don't see this as best for the class.

I'll put on the spec tire when it's available and go racing. It's what us club racers do.

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Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing

All good, but the complaint by Allaer was that people were talking about 2 tires and it was ridiculous.

There are other people that have financial interest in what is happening here. There are prep shops and other series that fear their customers will go away if the performance level drops, and again the "Church of FRP" believes they are entitled to do what they want and everyone else should comply. I know, you're Pros and the rest of us are just ignorant clubbers.

Reality check: Y'all never planned to change, just got involved to push for the radial.

Somehow I don't see this as best for the class.

I'll put on the spec tire when it's available and go racing. It's what us club racers do.

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Yes, I wanted the radial. But I also said I'd use what ever the SCCA decided was the spec tire. Bob's situation is different in that he has a series and business to run, and if his customers go away, so will the FRP series'. I want to run in the FRP F2K series, because I think it's currently the best place that runs near me to get good F2K/FC competition all year long, not just once a year at the Runoffs.

My problem with club racing (not at the Runoffs) is the mixed-class groupings which are not fun and prevent at-the-limit driving because of the mixed classes. I finally got fed up with that (last straw - high $ accident not of my doing) and decided to go with FRP. I don't see that situation changing any time soon.

If I do go back to club racing, I'll gladly accept the spec tire and be glad the tire of the week syndrome is gone.

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Originally Posted by DaveW

Yes, I wanted the radial. But I also said I'd use what ever the SCCA decided was the spec tire. Bob's situation is different in that he has a series and business to run, and if his customers go away, so will the FRP series'. I want to run in the FRP F2K series, because I think it's currently the best place that runs near me to get good F2K/FC competition all year long, not just once a year at the Runoffs.

My problem with club racing (not at the Runoffs) is the mixed-class groupings which are not fun and prevent at-the-limit driving because of the mixed classes. I finally got fed up with that (last straw - high $ accident not of my doing) and decided to go with FRP. I don't see that situation changing any time soon.

If I do go back to club racing, I'll gladly accept the spec tire and be glad the tire of the week syndrome is gone.

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I get the mixed class problem. For years Pacific has negotiated a single class run group, but that can't happen at Majors events - SCCA won't bend - and it's even worse now than ever before.
Next weeks group: "Big Bore Open Wheel (FA,FC,FE2,FM,FX,P1,P2) 34 ENTRIES" - FC is 9.

But not everyone has a choice. FRP negotiated to be part of the runoffs qualification, not because they cared about it, but because they we losing entries to Majors when people wanted to go.

Bob's situation is NOT different. He's just like every other business around racing. You just prefer his product.
As a customer of FRP if you 'voted for staying with the radial' and this whole spec thing doesn't work out, that's on you guys.

It's NOT ridiculous that other people now want to somehow 'run the radial' too.

So, if FRP didn't ask their customers and said they are running the bias, would you still go?
I say you would. But the fact that the Church of FRP even voted on it means y'all think you're entitled to.

Has nothing to do with business, has everything to do with believing y'all are better than others.
That's why I call it the Church of FRP.

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Originally Posted by Steve Bamford

Rob,

Each time I wrote something on spec tire I realized if anyone got left out it was you based on your tire choice.

As I said before I was making my suggestion on what I personally thought would be the best compromise. The compromise wasn’t meant for myself, it was meant for the class itself. I’ve raced on more different types of tires & compounds on the same car throughout the years & could adapt fairly well. That however was thanks to having a competent prep team & track time. Both cost money. Not saying a Club racer can’t do it, this was just helpful for me.

My attempt was to come up with a workable solution to a bad decision overall. No crying on my end.

Good to hear new blood is getting into racing. Hopefully he loves the sport too. Good luck & hope you have another great season.

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Steve- honestly the crying portion wasn’t intended for you necessarily. That is a global statement for anyone that wanted this spec tire and now doesn’t like the choice of the SCCA. I’m running the tire. And if I do FRP - I will run whatever tire Bob tells me to. I guess that is democracy. My vote lost. I’m moving on. A lot of people campaigning for a spec tire in SCCA, got one, and now don’t want it, because they thought it was going to be their tire. It’s hypocritical to say it was a bad decision. Why is it a bad decision? Because it’s not a radial? I think it’s a bad decision too. But I’m allowed to say that because I never wanted the decision made for me in the first place. Some people think it’s a good decision. Everyone has an opinion. Unfortunately, apparently, we voted to allow someone to make a decision for you. There it is.

On the other note Steve- it’s a strange feeling racing with your son. I want him to do well, but wait, what does that mean for me?? ; )

By the way - Does everyone else realize that American Racer offered a tire for $200 less than the Hoosier and was going to give away cash prizes?? I doubt it. Also- the all-powerful board didn’t even entertain an offer from the Avon importer despite numerous attempts at contacting the right people. When he finally spoke to someone, he was told that they already decided they weren’t going to use Avons. Hmmm. Without hearing a proposal? Sounds like they may have already known which way they were going to go.

But, the SCCA is a business (not a club) and can make those decisions for themselves. If we want to play, we do what they say. Unless you want to start your own “club” - like FRP. In which case, Bob had a right to do whatever he wants. His playground. His rules. You don’t have to go there. And I know for a fact Bob wants what is best for the SCCA. It only helps him. However, the geniuses that decided to do this and the sheep that voted for it made their own bed. Now lay in it.

I will be on the spec tire this weekend. I will tell you how it goes.

Still no pintos entered.

Rob Allaer
FC#52

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Originally Posted by rallaer

By the way - Does everyone else realize that American Racer offered a tire for $200 less than the Hoosier and was going to give away cash prizes?? I doubt it. Also- the all-powerful board didn’t even entertain an offer from the Avon importer despite numerous attempts at contacting the right people. When he finally spoke to someone, he was told that they already decided they weren’t going to use Avons. Hmmm. Without hearing a proposal? Sounds like they may have already known which way they were going to go.

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And this here is the main reason why openwheel racing is leaving the SCCA for other groups.

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Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing

...So, if FRP didn't ask their customers and said they are running the bias, would you still go?
I say you would. ...

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I already said I'd run whatever FRP decided on, so yes I'd still race there.

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Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing

... But the fact that the Church of FRP even voted on it means y'all think you're entitled to....

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I definitely don't have a entitlement complex - I'd run whatever was mandated in whatever race series I was in.

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Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing

...Has nothing to do with business, has everything to do with believing y'all are better than others.
That's why I call it the Church of FRP.

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Again, I said I'd run anything mandated by whichever series I run in. And FRP wants to stay in business and not fold for lack of customers. That has absolutely nothing to do with thinking they (we) are better than others. It's a matter of satisfying customers and staying in business.

Churches are another subject entirely.

Rob & all,

Why it’s a bad decision, only in my opinion, is because it is not a spec tire used in Pacific Series, SCCA & FRP. Do not announce a tire without the other two series agreeing. That’s why it’s a bad decision, once again that’s my opinion.

How that process flowed out, I am unsure. I tried to suggest a realistic compromise that’s all I thought.

If I was racing currently I would run whatever I had to & figure it out as best as possible. I hope to be back one day running again & if not me my son & hope he kicks my ass too. I’m ok with that as I’m sure you will hope that as well Rob. Let us know how Sebring goes, we all on here still want to see updates even if we disagree on tires we love racing.

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Originally Posted by Steve Bamford

Rob & all,

Why it’s a bad decision, only in my opinion, is because it is not a spec tire used in Pacific Series, SCCA & FRP. Do not announce a tire without the other two series agreeing.

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Did the club announce a tire without the other two agreeing, or did everyone agree to go along with the decision (assuming it would be their preference) and then not like the decision?

BIG difference.

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Originally Posted by Rick Kirchner

Did the club announce a tire without the other two agreeing, or did everyone agree to go along with the decision (assuming it would be their preference) and then not like the decision?

BIG difference.

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I have no idea to be honest.

I certainly have had my differences with FRP and Bob Wright. As I do today.

But I am always distressed when I hear people in the F2000/FC community portray Bob as a bad guy. or a problem.

I started racing F2000 in 1984 as part of a Pro F2000 series in Canada. I have been in and out of the numerous F2000 series that have been run in the last 36 years. Bob is the most passionate person about the class that I have met in those 36 years, by a multiple. He has spent more time, and invested more money in furthering the class than anyone, again by a multiple over anyone I can think of. You can feel the pain, in his commentary, that he must protect his Series by following his customer's tire preference, over his genuine desire to support a FC/F2000 spec tire.

If you are reading this, and don't understand Bob's passion and commitment as I have outlined above, then please realize that you are missing something and need to be open to change your perspective. Bob is the best friend that this class could ever have. if you do not believe me, look at the character of the people who will like this post.

Let me run the best tire, and everyone else the worst crap tire. And like many people, the fast guys will still beat me, like they have
since 1968. Just run the car, have fun and go racing.

Kenneth

A thought that's not been brought up here........but maybe at least once spoken? and therefore discussed? among the now-over-and-done-with "committee" because a tire decision has been made. I say done-with because I'm guessing now that the tire thing is finished, at least for the forseeable future, the "committee" is disbanded ???

So a rule hoping to bring out older cars concludes bias over radial..... somewhat due to the suspension tune possible [or shall we say > impossible] for those older cars. Well one thing I believe that's true of a lot of the sitting-in-a-garage cars is the older/tired engines they've got [mostly tired Pintos would be likely]. I do not say Pinto here to again have readers go into Pinto vs. long rod vs. Z discussions.

Point #1 is: it would seem to me because of the engine sitting in the older car having too many hours on it, there's not suddenly going to be a great influx of these older cars to events merely because of a spec tire rule. Once the owners freshen the engine, then they might, at best, trickle out.
Point #2. Sure, sure certain people will be watching overall FC car counts for 2021 and 2022, etc........but there should be an attempt to keep track of - and mostly at the Club level - the count of "older cars" that participate on the spec tire.......because if there's no obvious rise to the number of "older cars" over the next few years, then the decision of bias - so as to not disenfranchise older cars - will have proven fruitless............so maybe there would be a need to have a different spec tire eventually...........which would then please at least the majority of those coming out.
"Committee" are you listening ????

Some wise man just told me tonight that I'm not being positive enough for our class.

He's right... no more bickering. No more chasing my tail.

It's time to race now. I hope that everyone that has an FC embraces the opportunity to come to the track and race. And, if I am there, please come see me and say hello! I want nothing more than to make new friends and build on the friendships I am lucky enough to already have. We can get past our tire preferences and have a blast out there regardless. Let's do that.

If there is something I can help with, please let me know and I will give it my best effort!


Rob Allaer
FC #52

I am hoping everyone can come together for the sake of the class.The Adhoc committee didn’t get everything right,but I am sure this should be a positive change for the class.I am with Rob, I just want to see more FC cars at the track and I am more than willing to help anyone I can to make this a positive experience for everyone.See you at the track.
Yir
Tim Minor Fc88

Well ladies & gentleman that’s multiple Runoffs champions in our class with positive advice. Let’s listen to them & run our cars. I’ll even commit to make myself available to run again when this Covid Sh!t ends & I can cross the border to support the class in FC & I’ll make sure myself Dave W, Tim M, John L & Rob A all race together at some point amongst many others to support the class. Let’s be positive for 2021 & beyond.

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Originally Posted by Bob Wright

I'll say my piece and shut up.

I'm on the Ad Hoc committee for the FC

I am completely in favor of a spec tire for FC

The survey of active FC drivers was majority in favor of a radial tire.

I have to do what's best for my Series

A bias tire is not in the best interest of my series- This series has been on radial tires for 15 years and for any number of very good reasons. I made this known to the committee.

I received major pushback from some of my teams and stood to loose a significant number of entries if I went to bias tires.

I put in place FC Classic two years ago where someone can run older cars and the bias tire in our series for a reduced entry. I have had exactly 2 entries in two years. Ergo, there is little or no crossover from Club.

Contrary to everybody's opinion, its not very hard to run an older car on radials- Don't listen to me (WHAT DO I KNOW)- ask some very knowledgeable people who have been doing it for years like David Clubine.

Let me repeat...I've been spec'ing radial tires in my series FOR 15 YEARS; why should I go to what I believe is an inferior tire?

Hoosier has re-upped their support of the Series with the radial tire for 2021, without which I would be playing golf instead of running a series.

Am I a little put out by the CRB's decision? You bet I am. Is it the correct decision? Not in my opinion. Have I left been left in an untenable situation-you bet I've been.

This was just a bad choice. Let the chips fall where they may. I made my decision. And BTW, I have complete agreement and support of my Series management in this decision.

rant over.

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Bob: I guess I am in the minority in that I did not want a radial tire. Out here in California I ran Pirelli radials to fit in with the Pac 2000 group. After 1-2 seasons I found I was 1-2 seconds a lap slower on the radials and the pirellis really went off on me a few times leaving me feeling like I was on ice. I went back to bias ply Avons and never looked back. I was quicker and my tires were more consistent. I usually use one set per weekend never more than that. The set up change was significant but I was happy to go back. I usually do not run P 2000 unless they show up where I am planning on running anyway.

I really never wanted a spec tire. I just wanted a one set per race weekend limit with choice of tire left up to the drivers. However I am delighted with the price of the Hoosiers. I was paying 1250 for a set of Avons the Hoosier price is a rare breath of fresh air on my racing budget.

As I listen to you guys I feel I am missing something. What is so wonderful about the radials? All I have read here is that you don't want bias ply because your pro teams do not want them. I am asking because I don't know what is inherently better about the radials?
i would appreciate your input.

Bob's previously posted opinion (his quote is below your quote).

My opinion - I like the radial for 2 main reasons:
1. Size consistency - one does not need to be constantly re-scaling the car to get the weight balance correct, and
2. They last longer than bias tires with the same compound

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jpietz

Bob: I guess I am in the minority in that I did not want a radial tire. Out here in California I ran Pirelli radials to fit in with the Pac 2000 group. After 1-2 seasons I found I was 1-2 seconds a lap slower on the radials and the pirellis really went off on me a few times leaving me feeling like I was on ice. I went back to bias ply Avons and never looked back. I was quicker and my tires were more consistent. I usually use one set per weekend never more than that. The set up change was significant but I was happy to go back. I usually do not run P 2000 unless they show up where I am planning on running anyway.

I really never wanted a spec tire. I just wanted a one set per race weekend limit with choice of tire left up to the drivers. However I am delighted with the price of the Hoosiers. I was paying 1250 for a set of Avons the Hoosier price is a rare breath of fresh air on my racing budget.

As I listen to you guys I feel I am missing something. What is so wonderful about the radials? All I have read here is that you don't want bias ply because your pro teams do not want them. I am asking because I don't know what is inherently better about the radials?
i would appreciate your input.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bob Wright

Umm. For a number of years we had the R60A compound in FRP. In 2020 we changed to the R35B, which is clearly faster, a bit stickier, and easier to drive. My personal opinion (and that of a number of FRP competitors) is the R60A is a better choice for a number of reasons, but a little harder to go fast with. It certainly lasts longer.

I am very much in the radial camp; the tire is more consistent, lasts longer and doesn't require the continual set-up work of the bias. From personal experience, the radial does not need massive camber that might preclude some of the older cars. It does require some learning how to drive on it (isn't that part of the fun?). FRP competitors have 16 years of experience how to set up and drive on the radial- its not rocket science and not voodoo.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaveW

Bob's previously posted opinion (his quote is below your quote).

My opinion - I like the radial for 2 main reasons:
1. Size consistency - one does not need to be constantly re-scaling the car to get the weight balance correct, and
2. They last longer than bias tires with the same compound

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Dave: Thanks for the reply. The set up of the bias ply at least with AVON s has not been an issue for us, Our scale weights have been very consistent. Maybe Hoosiers will vary more. I do not know.

If radials last longer the next question has to be what is the cost of the radial? The Pirelli radials were no bargain as I recall similar to the cost of the Avons which are about $1250 before mounting and balancing. Is the radial being used by FRP cheaper than the Hoosier bias ply? if the Hoosier bias ply is $500 a set cheaper and we only run one set per weekend a radial at $1250 that lasts longer does not make much sense or at least any more sense than the new rule we have. Your input much appreciated, Dave or anyone else.

The FRP R60 radials will obviously be more than the SCCA spec bias R60's. However, I don't know the exact cost per set of either.

Call Hoosier @ (574) 784-3152 or email: info@hoosiertire.com for an answer from the source.

Bought a set of R35B radials at M.O. mounted and balanced was 1250.00 direct from Hoosier. I would sure hope that going to a seemingly harder tire would at least have the benefit of being cheaper, as well as lasting longer.

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Originally Posted by ejsprint30

Bought a set of R35B radials at M.O. mounted and balanced was 1250.00 direct from Hoosier. I would sure hope that going to a seemingly harder tire would at least have the benefit of being cheaper, as well as lasting longer.

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Tires should be south of $800/set.

Btw, discussion on FB put them .5 seconds slower than the Avons at Fontana last weekend. Hmmm.

So, I'm anticipating Zero time differences for me! :meatball: Not even going to think about it! :checkered:

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Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing

Tires should be south of $800/set.

Btw, discussion on FB put them .5 seconds slower than the Avons at Fontana last weekend. Hmmm.

So, I'm anticipating Zero time differences for me! :meatball: Not even going to think about it! :checkered:

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I assume you mean the bias-ply SCCA spec tires...

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Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing

Tires should be south of $800/set.

Btw, discussion on FB put them .5 seconds slower than the Avons at Fontana last weekend. Hmmm.

So, I'm anticipating Zero time differences for me! :meatball: Not even going to think about it! :checkered:

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For guys running 3 to 4 seconds slower than the leader - no worries for sure.

Our experience at Homestead, after mounting and balancing, they are north of $800. And at Homestead - a track not known for being hard on tires, they looked to be about 1 second slower than Avons - but the edges were pretty much gone after 2 - 20 minute sessions (with one of those being a shortened session). The fastest time of the weekend came on a set of Avons with 7, yes, seven sessions on them. So, I'm not an economics major but...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LTDMotorsports

but the edges were pretty much gone after 2 - 20 minute sessions (with one of those being a shortened session).

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Any info you could provide on your camber settings, tire pressures etc? If 'what works' is regarded as a learned secret, that is fine. But, if people throw out what they have found 'doesn't work' that would go quite a ways in helping with the growing pains.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LTDMotorsports

For guys running 3 to 4 seconds slower than the leader - no worries for sure.

Our experience at Homestead, after mounting and balancing, they are north of $800. And at Homestead - a track not known for being hard on tires, they looked to be about 1 second slower than Avons - but the edges were pretty much gone after 2 - 20 minute sessions (with one of those being a shortened session). The fastest time of the weekend came on a set of Avons with 7, yes, seven sessions on them. So, I'm not an economics major but...

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I'm guessing a camber or tire pressure issue caused the edges to get worn off. I'm betting with some more time on them you'll figure out what they need.

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Originally Posted by DaveW

I'm guessing a camber or tire pressure issue caused the edges to get worn off. I'm betting with some more time on them you'll figure out what they need.

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Possibly, however, we went with the pressure and camber that Hoosier suggested for us. Also, we are very experienced testing tires and typically, the Hoosier tire doesn't last on our Van Diemens anyway. Even the pro radial R60. We've tried the R35 too. We can't keep the fronts. We've run them many, many times. Made many changes. When you run a guy who is fast and works the tires hard, it is almost always an issue at tracks like Mid Ohio, Sebring, etc. Rarely an issue at Homestead.

The fact in this is the Avons aren't nearly as finicky. We have never seen this happen on those tires, even the first day we tried them.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter. It is what it is. Just expect, if you are someone who runs near the front, to run a couple sessions a weekend with the tires under you. You will probably purposely shorten your sessions and take some sessions off if you want the tire to be there for you in the race. 4 tires an entire weekend won't work for you otherwise.

If the goal is eliminating seat time for our fastest drivers - mission accomplished.

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Originally Posted by CGOffroad

Any info you could provide on your camber settings, tire pressures etc? If 'what works' is regarded as a learned secret, that is fine. But, if people throw out what they have found 'doesn't work' that would go quite a ways in helping with the growing pains.

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Well it was the very first set anyone has ever run. I'm sure you'll get much better info from guys around the country as they try them at different tracks and the data starts coming in. Also - it's so dependent on so many things. The track, your speed, and how much you work the tires. Your shocks, springs, wings all play into it. For us, it's never just a tire pressure and camber.

Perhaps Hoosier's suggestion will work for you.

We are saying our first try didn't go well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LTDMotorsports

Well it was the very first set anyone has ever run. I'm sure you'll get much better info from guys around the country as they try them at different tracks and the data starts coming in. Also - it's so dependent on so many things. The track, your speed, and how much you work the tires. Your shocks, springs, wings all play into it. For us, it's never just a tire pressure and camber.

Perhaps Hoosier's suggestion will work for you.

We are saying our first try didn't go well.

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I'm curious what went wrong to cause you to eat front tires. That's just me - I like to understand stuff and I learn from trying to diagnose things.

Which edge (inner or outer) wore off, or was it both? Only on the front tire that was used most, or both sides of the car? I know VD's are hard on the fronts, but more details might help us figure out why.

When I ran the radial 35B's in FRP on my Citation, I found that they, especially the fronts, needed a fair amount more camber and pressure than the initial Hoosier recommendation to perform best.

The tire commentary from the Autoclub event on FB also seemed generally positive. Good to hear!

Big shout out to Dave and his crew for their Florida performance. It is crazy to think they were running all those cars in so many races, and with good results, but to be double-dipping in other race groups on different tires, with different cambers and ride heights, switching back and forth, etc. And with Don on maternity leave. Very impressive!

I hope it went well for Bob out in California. However, the commentary about his tires came after qualifying - where he did 7 laps. Total it looks like he did 23 laps by the end of the weekend - but I don't see any references to how they looked after the race.

As for our tires from Homestead, that I ran, I would concur that they are slower, which is expected I know. No big deal. More concerning for me, as was mentioned above, is the fact that that 4 tires are not going to last the whole weekend, at least for me.

I can't speak to exact setup numbers and stuff, but I can tell you we ran a basic bias tire setup that we've used a bunch of times on R35s and multiple different compounds of Avons for years. We might be able to adjust them but they aren't going to drastically change the wear we experienced. For some people, I am sure 4 tires will last the whole weekend. I don't believe they will be carryovers from event to event for anyone, unless you continually change your car to chase your front tires.

I'm glad they're cheap! But like Confucius says - you get what you pay for!


Rob Allaer
FC #52

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Originally Posted by LTDMotorsports

Well it was the very first set anyone has ever run. I'm sure you'll get much better info from guys around the country as they try them at different tracks and the data starts coming in. Also - it's so dependent on so many things. The track, your speed, and how much you work the tires. Your shocks, springs, wings all play into it. For us, it's never just a tire pressure and camber.

Perhaps Hoosier's suggestion will work for you.

We are saying our first try didn't go well.

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With the FRP R60 radials, and continuing into 2020 with the FRP 35B radials, I found on my Citation that adding more front wing but not adding more to the rear improved front grip everywhere w/o a noticeable loss of top speed. Once I got the rear shock rebound force to stay in an acceptable range when the shocks got warm so that the rear was comfortable with more front wing, this was a very good setup. With the lower downforce wing settings on the front I was getting more wear on the front than the rear, and having too much understeer at all speeds. After the changes, wear got back to pretty much the same front and rear.

This is addition to using higher pressures and cambers than Hoosier recommended.

This may be highly compound-related. So, IMO, it's possible, even with the bias spec tires, that modifying things similarly might help.

Wow, some people might find out tire management means more than just throwing another set of stickers on.

:p

When I ran the Hoosier radials this past year it took me some time to find a happy medium to keep the fronts alive. From my experience you had to run a much higher spring rate in the rear to get the car to rotate properly and also keep the fronts from being murdered. Either way I still found the fronts wore more than the rears.

All I can say is that this is not a spec class ???? so we have the option of changing those little dials on the shocks, oh and spring rates.

Brian

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Originally Posted by BrianT1

.

All I can say is that this is not a spec class ???? so we have the option of changing those little dials on the shocks, oh and spring rates.

Brian

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There are dozens of FC racers who have never driven on bias tires, or certainly for many years, that would love to have the advantage of a bias baseline to start with. With some of the doom and gloom predictions, it is great to hear of the performance shown at the Florida and Autoclub events. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by DaveW

Whether the radial or the bias would be faster on a given track depends, IMO, on the track's character. A track with a lot of sequential opposite-direction medium-speed corners (Grattan comes to mind) might favor a bias tire due to its transition predictability and less abrupt breakaway. OTOH, a track where putting down power, straight-away speed, maximum lateral grip, and braking ability are the most important factors, the radial would likely be faster. So, as I mentioned, the only way you'd know for sure for most tracks and your own car/driver would be to test both.

At tracks like Indy, Road America, or Road Atlanta with long straights and several fairly slow corners, the radial would almost certainly be the choice.

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We talked alot about bias vs radial at the runoffs. Armington seemed set on radials at one point but it was decided that in cool weather the bias ply were the best choice at RA. Bob ran well at RA. I am curious as to what Rob Allear used. I looked but have forgotten.

Rob ran Avons. The best tire for the environment at RA.

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Originally Posted by purple frog

rob ran avons. the best tire.

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fify

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Originally Posted by RSS

fify

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Hi ino old pintos are. Coming to race this spec tire is a bull s experiment open tires we’re good for the class. If drivers voted on the tire deal then that would be fine. That’s democracy but no vote crazy Scca only does what’s good for them I have always ran a ons last forever I talked to west coast dealer and rob is right they could never present plan to Scca fix was on he He is willing to run a scca scca sfr Avon series with money. Sounds like a good option if ur not going to the runoffs will run it in fx ????????