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This upcoming Thursday will be the fourth Formula F Zoom meeting relative to this topic. 9pm eastern.
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Meeting ID: 820 1314 1123
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Please attend. Especially if you own a FF.
Team, the driver registry is up to 159 drivers! Plus the first Majors of 2025 are only a month away. One of the action items from Zoom meeting #4 last Thursday was to ask this group for volunteers' to be the Lead person for each division. The nine divisions are listed just below.
Here's what you'd be asked to do: We are going to send an email to all the drivers who happen to have emails readily available in your division requesting them to contact you, their Division Lead. You would respond back to start a conversation about their plans for 2025 and encourage them to come race with us. In some cases it would be to do a race or two more than last year, in other cases to get back on track after a break. Part of that conversation would include uncovering the barriers and helping them overcome them, as well as helping all of us understand what barriers real people are facing. Plus it would be important to know what we can do to make racing more often fun for them.
We'd also want to encourage them to network with their friends in hopes of more participation in 2025 compared to recently. It's very likely their friends are not on our registry. I'd be surprised if as many as 25% of the drivers we know are actually on our registry. Please message me if you'd like to be a Division Lead for FF.
BTW - we chose this communication path to preserve the privacy of the individuals on the list, including you. Most probably would be fine with a "cold call" or email from you, but its possible some would not. So we're going to take a gentle approach.
SCCA Divisions are as follows:
NP Northern Pacific
SP Southern Pacific
RM Rocky Mountain
CD Central
MW Midwest
SW Southwest
GL Great Lakes
SE Southeast
NE Northeast
Thanks Tony for sharing. As several have said - the change from Super Tour to a focus on Majors actually makes life easier for most of our competitors and we are seeing a lot of excitement due to the energy and attention this has brought to our competitors. Not to mention the class as a whole. I think the thing that gets overlooked is we are a massive/diverse nation and these cars are loved everywhere you go. Yes, there are many local preferences but at the end of the day - Formula F/1600 are a blast and the absolute best training ground to develop driving skills in my opinion!
Jay
It's a shame that Mr. Farley.......of Ford......doesn't drive a (once known as) Formula Ford but instead races other virtually priceless cars. Maybe it's time to appeal to Mr. Farley for some help.
Positive news coming FV and FFs way.
Thanks again to Andrew Abbott who wrote the letter and to all of those that wrote letters in support.
From the latest fast track
#37307 (Andrew Abbott) 2025 FV Runoffs Qualification Proposal
The CRB is appreciative of the effort that you and others have made to rally FV competitors and the time spent to develop your
submission. We further understand that removal of FV from the Super Tours will may make it more difficult to reach the top
50% because there will likely not be as many cars scoring points within each conference. One of the objectives of the changes
being implemented was to increase competition and participation during the season. The increased level of difficulty and
competition to earn a Runoffs invitation that you anticipate is therefore not necessarily a bad thing.
Prior to introduction of the Majors and Super Tours, Runoffs invitations were based on the driver’s final point standing within
their Division and thus more “in line” with what we currently have in FV and FF. Earning a Runoffs invitation was more difficult in
some Divisions than others. Qualifying for Runoffs under the current Majors/Super Tour program is significantly easier than it
was under the previous system. As we move forward to update the SCCA Road Racing Program, a decision needs to be made
with respect to Runoffs and whether the qualifying criteria should be tightened or relaxed to a standard more in line with what
SCCA Fastrack News January 2025 Page 2
you have proposed. As important, we need to determine whether, and if so how, Runoffs can be leveraged to improve
competition and increase participation during the season.
While being empathetic to the increased competition and difficulty FV participants will now face in qualifying for a Runoffs
invitation, the CRB has concerns about the resolution you propose in that it would create varying standards amongst the classes.
There is a desire to maintain consistency across the classes and events that clearly conflicts with your proposal. That being said,
under the circumstances the most equitable decision is to change the 2025 Runoffs invitation criteria for FV and FF to the
following: a) participate in a minimum of three (3) separate Majors or Bonus Majors event weekends; and b) have a minimum of
three (3) individual Majors race finishes.
Per the GCR, FV and FF will still have to meet and fulfill 3.7.4.A.1.a but will be exempted from 3.7.4.A.1.b for 2025. The CRB will
further consider the additional criteria you have set forth in your letter (Part 2) as it concerns the qualifying percentage rule and
will announce any changes for FV and other classes no later than publication of the Supplemental Regulations for the 2025
Runoffs. We collectively look forward to large grids in both FV and FF in 2025 as a result of this change and your continued
efforts."
I sometimes wonder if they understand the irony of what they do & say.Quote:
Originally Posted by B Farnham
As a member of the Formula F/1600 Racing USA group I was in the process of drafting a letter but thank goodness Team FV beat me to it! Thank you FV crew.
An item I am seeking clarification on:
1. Does the tow fund dynamic change? I am not sure but I have been thinking on it. I do not think the tow fund should be a disincentive to traveling during the year. For example - I ran three majors weekends last year - in three different conferences. I earned the 16th most majors points driver in the USA (per our groups calculation - this is not something currently tracked by SCCA). I did not qualify for tow fund as I finished too low in all three divisions due to running only 2 races in each division. Of course with the announcement today some of this may change for the future - actually a lot of good news and opportunities coming out of recent announcements.
Again thank you to Team FV and to SCCA for addressing major (pun intended) concerns for FF/FV.
Jay
I know that most if not all of the FF, FV & F600 drivers are not happy with the current HST schedule eliminating the small formula class from being a run group, but I am trying to help in making the best of the situation as the chief steward for the Summer Sizzle @ MRRA (Road Atlanta, for us old farts) I posted here on Apexspeed for your help in making the July 19-20 Event at MRRA an outstanding event.
For those who haven't seen or read my post about the July Race here it is again:
Hello everyone, I am John Fine, the Chief Steward for the 2025 Summer Sizzle @ Road Atlanta with a bonus Majors Race for FV, FF, & F600 so that they may qualify for the 2025 Runoff's @ Road America.
I know it's early in the season, but for planning purposes I am attempting to get a feel for the number of small bore formula cars that will be attending this race. Driver feedback from you the drivers of those cars will help me ensure that we have adequate time on our race schedule to ensure that you have a great race experience at a Destination RACE TRACK!!
My goal is to have the initial schedule for the weekend done by the middle of February 2025, so your input is desired. Reply on this thread or contact me @ jefine3878@gmail.com.
Thanks in advance for your help;
John E. Fine
Chief Steward, Summer Sizzle 2025
John,
This is really great of you to ask. I’m a F600/F500 driver and part of a F500 vintage prep shop.
Unfortunately this date conflicts with the WeatherTech® International Challenge with Brian Redman at Road America.
Vintage racing is important to our class as this is where the many 494cc cars currently parked can race competitively. The 494 cars were made obsolete by a series of rules changes that made them uncompetitive for SCCA racing. We’re also trying to get them to come out to specific Majors and run as a “B” class for points and help us get our numbers back up.
And while I'm here, can you confirm that small bore Major group will be combined with the Regional small bore group as one run group and that the Majors entry fees will be the same as the Regular event fees?
Jeff Jorgenson
F500 Vintage Rentals
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamfun
There will be one Small Bore Formula Group for both Regional & Majors dirivers unless entries dictate otherwise. I will be working with the Atlanta Region Board & the National Office concerning fees. Reminder I will be writing the Schedule & the Supps for this Event
John E. Fine
The schedule & supps have not been published yet because the Sebring long course Feb. 7 (test day), 8 & 9 "Cabin Fever Cure" registration is not up yet at motorsportreg.com.
The word is there will be a specific run group for F600/FV/FF as their "Major" - no split start with the winged and P cars but their own race.
Further, the word is there is quite the interest being made to gather a lot of entries so far.
Yes, that is a "Bonus Major" for the FF/FV/F6 group, though it is up the the specific Region on how they do groupings.
Lee Racing (James and Jonathon) are doing a great job in FL getting FF drivers out and entered. The Homestead event has 12 FFs entered, leading the country for FF entries for the 4 Majors with open Reginstration!
Team, it's time to line up our Points of Contacts for the remaining 2025 Majors. Please comment or PM me if you would like to volunteer. And we really appreciate those who do!
Feb. 22-23: Eagles Canyon Raceway; Decatur, TX
April 5-6: Sonoma Raceway; Sonoma, CA
April 19-20: Summit Point Motorsports Park; Summit Point, WV
May 3-4: Pittsburgh International Wampum, PA
May 3-4: Blackhawk Farms Raceway; S. Beloit, IL Tony Stefanelli
May 3-4: Virginia International Raceway; Alton, VA (Bonus Majors)
May 24-25: Carolina Motorsports Park; Kershaw, SC
May 24-25: MSR Houston; Angleton, TX
May 24-25: Pacific Raceways; Kent, WA
May 24-25: World Wide Technology Raceway; Madison, IL
May 24-25: Gingerman Raceway; South Haven, MI
May 31-June 1: Watkins Glen International; Watkins Glen, NY
May 31- Jun 1: Pueblo Motorsports Park; CO (Bonus Majors)
June 6-8: Road America June Sprints; Elkhart Lake, WI
July 5-6: Roebling Road; Bloomingdale, GA
July 5-6: High Plains Raceway; Deer Trail, CO
July 12-13: New Jersey Motorsports Park Millville, NJ
July 12-13: Ozarks International Raceway; Gravois Mills, MO
July 12-13: Road America Elkhart Lake, WI
July 19-20: Road Atlanta; Braselton, GA (Bonus Majors)
July 25-27: Brainerd International Raceway; Brainerd, MN
August 9-10: Motorsports Park Hastings; Hastings, NE
Aug. 9-10: Mid-Ohio; Lexington, OH (Bonus Majors)
August 16-17: Thompson Speedway Motorsports; Thompson, CT
August 23-24: High Plains Raceway; Deer Trail, CO
Aug. 23-24: Grattan Raceway; Belding, MI
Aug. 30-31: Eagles Canyon Raceway; Decatur, TX
I don't know how well Sebring in February will do. In the past, with Homestead/Moroso and then Sebring on consecutive weekends - it was convenient for the frugal to do both and get a week in Florida as a refuge from the North and winter. I have to question how many will show at Homestead and come back a month later for Sebring.Quote:
Originally Posted by EYERACE
That was NOT my understanding.. the 'Bonus Majors Group' is SUPPOSED to be a stand alone group. No other cars. If it's NOT that way, don't expect to see ME there. (Or anywhere else that the 'bonus' is included with other open wheel cars.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Garey Guzman
Steve, FV80
Here is the link for when it opens - it is on my desktop and I am curious what it will look like.....
https://www.motorsportreg.com/events...ay-race-676162
ChrisZ
Steve,Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Davis
I sent a question to "Club Racing" back in November regarding race groups at the "bonus" Majors. Jeff Barrow responded directly with the following.
Cory,
Good afternoon. The goal would be to have your own run group, but it will all depend on the car counts and ultimately up to the region running the event.
It will take some time to figure if this path is the best solution for your group.
Cheers,
JB
In other words, no guarantee of a separate race group.
Thanks, Corey.. but my post above will remain standing. I can 'live' without SCCA .. can they live without me?
Steve, FV80
I don't suppose the SCCA is paying any attention, but when you are running off a TWO time National Champion, a recipient of the RRDC Mark Donahue Award (1992), and I'm pretty sure a SCCA President's Cup award (great website can't find the list), someone with near half a century of SCCA racing, then
you might be doing something the wrong way.
Hi Steve, I could put you in a CF for the February VDCA race at Roebling to see how you like that group and cars!Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Davis
It was fun the last time we did something similar.
Skip
This is my exact opinion on the club. after the rain light BS and the way I was treated by the comp board I think president and his attitude, I left my comp license run out and everything is for sale.Still am a member since close to making 50 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Davis
Ed
Thanks for the offer Skip, but I'll pass on that event - that's the same weekend as the 'Bonus' at Sebring and I want to test MY car first before considering stepping into anything else. Depending on a lot of other things, that weekend might NOT be my first event this year, but it would mean that I would probably NOT be racing anywhere. At the moment, I have no desire to go any FASTER than my Vee :D.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip Weld
Yes.. our last 'get together' was pretty good and A L M O S T worked perfectly!
Steve, FV80
Steve,Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Davis
Any chance you go run DriverZ Cup & do our Challenge Cup "Radial Runoffs" this year then?
Almost exactly my words a couple months ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by BLS
I also pondered the totality of Steve’s entry fees, probably close in dollars to ALL entry fees of a June Sprints.
The SCCA National Convention is on-line and begins on 1/16. Every single formula driver/participant should attend the road racing programs. There is one that is specifically targeted to discuss the 2025 HST changes. Registration is free. http://www.scca.com/events/2006869-2...nal-convention
Matt - yes.. a chance, but I don't have any wheels or tires (yet). Have considered what might be the least expensive way to achieve that. Gotta get them before I can start that way of thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Clark
Steve
Get your heads out of the sand! The 'SCCA' you keep referring to is really the club membership which is now made up of a lot of SM, SMX, SFR, etc. They have no empathy for formula cars or its great drivers. They want all the track time they can get and will not hesitate to push formula cars out.
If you want to keep racing then work the few alternate formula car series that are available. Except for the Runoffs, is there really any need for SCCA?
Brian
Quote:
Originally Posted by John LaRue
Thank you John for the reminder and the link. I've been very surprised and impressed by the number of SCCA officials and employees that have called me in the last month to say how happy to see the efforts that FF and FC are putting in to grow the classes. There are certainly a lot of formula car fans in the ranks at the SCCA.IMO, we haven't accomplished much of anything in regards to growing it yet, but they are seeing positive energy and enthusiasm and it has them rev'd up.
Back for another fun filled evening - ZOOM meeting number 8! Tomorrow, Thursday at 9PM EST. Let us know what else we need to be doing to tell the FF story. And is there anything in particular we need to be doing as a class in regards to the SCCA Convention that starts next week? The fun has only just begun...
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Well.. that's that. Sebring has set the precedent and I'll bet it continues that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by cory mcleod
Bye Bye, SCCA racing.
Steve, FV80
The attached is a list of people who have contacted us and noted how happy they are to see the energy the team is putting into increasing FF participation. They are cheering us on and have asked how they can help.https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/att...d=113939&stc=1
The rate of people contacting us is going up. I doubt we are "in" all the right places to be seen, but at least they are finding out about the effort somehow.
Sorry, just caught up to email, Mike Cobb, President of the SCCA, and Eric Prill, VP of Road Racing asked to be added to the Friends of Formula F list.
https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/att...d=113942&stc=1
(Suspicious grumble noise)Quote:
Originally Posted by RideMore
Foxes, welcome to the henhouse...
Not really my concern any more, and I don't wish to disparage all the meaningful, substantive and positive things you've already achieved for FF, but what did they do to earn inclusion?
Time will tell, but there seems to be a willingness to look at the possibility of perhaps entertaining, at least as a thought exercise, the breaking out of purpose built race cars from production derived race cars within SCCA Road Racing to include separate events. There's a lot to unpack before that can even be considered a subject of discussion within official ranks and that process has begun.Quote:
Originally Posted by 924RACR
I've said it for over forty years.....Open wheel and closed wheel should have separate weekends. I have zero interest in anyone driving a fendered car on a race track. In the twenty years I raced I couldn't understand why they were booked together.
This is not really SCCA's problem to fix. They are just sanctioning events, it is the Regions that are financially responsible for an events success. If we cannot provide the entrants they are not going to provide the track time.
The logic of the finances is simple and no amount of SCCA brow beating is going to change anything.
All this banter with SCCA is pointless.
Brian
That’s like saying a bad federal Government policy can be fixed by writing your tiny town councilman.
Brian, you're probably the only person on these forums who can give me a run for my pedantic money. You've listed but one of the myriad of issues that have to be addressed. There are many others and their interrelationships are a truly tangled web. This certainly isn't a Gordian knot that can be cut through with even the boldest of action. It will take time. Time devoted to identifying all the issues, their interrelationships and careful thought on how to proceed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardingfv32
Somewhere Bill Kephart is reading this thread, and chuckling. "Festival weekends" indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Olivola
This idea has been floated ever since I joined SCCA, and likely long before. The problem always comes down to numbers: entries -vs- costs. When I was on my Region's competition committee, and, later, Board, this idea came up a couple of times. Between the limited number of weekends allocated to the Region by our track, and costs involved in staging an event, it just never made sense.
As Brian points out above, this sort of initiative is in the Regions' space. Somebody would have to make a business case to a Region for such a specialized event. Either the sponsor would need to make a significant financial guarantee or the Region would have to take the risk of major loss. You can count the number of Regions able to take a business risk on that scale on the fingers of one hand.
Well it looks like the "Bonus Major" will be streamed:
https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/att...d=113968&stc=1
ChrisZ
Obviously, we don't have enough purpose built formula and prototype cars entering events to justify stand alone events. So, perhaps the SCCA powers that be are thinking they will combine us with other non-racing track day run groups (think SCCA time-trials groups and HPDE groups)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardingfv32
We have run some regional events with these types of non-racing groups included in the weekend, and that worked OK. It might also give us a chance to recruit some new guys who want to move up to real race cars, and keep them away from the spec. tin tops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatist
I attended the event below in 2017 at Indianapolis. This was a well advertised event that was being held to attract open wheel cars to a weekend of ONLY open wheel cars. I am not sure how the weekend did financially, but I have not heard of another event like this being held. I have to think if it was a huge success and a financially viable weekend, that SVRA would have offered it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Olivola
I have TWO interests in fendered cars. 1) I have many friends that own these type cars and I like having the option to see them at the track. 2) they pay entry fees which assist in making the weekend financially viable for an organizer to put on.
It takes all of us to make it financially realistic !!
https://svra.com/race-results/2017-o...rld-challenge/
Quote:
Originally Posted by douglap1
That's not a bad idea, lets hold onto that.
Has anyone assembled all the issues involved in splitting things up and then sought to find ways to resolve them?Quote:
Originally Posted by John Nesbitt
Just looking at FRP's schedule - 7 races this year.
How do they do this? Is the East Coast the only viable area for stand alone formula racing?
Can it be (would they?) expanded to offer FV, and other area's of the country? Could they (would they?) work with others (Challenge Cup - DriverZ Cup, etc) to make a series?
Just asking.
When we started FRP, we looked at where most of the (at the time only F2000) cars were, and also where most of the tracks were. Put a pin in Boston, stretch a line to Road Atlanta, scribe it to Road America and you had most of the cars and most of the best tracks in the country.
Our motto is "for racers, by racers". We do our best to operate events logically and user friendly.
FRP has morphed in any number of ways to try to stay viable. We added F1600, we added Atlantic. We invited Challenge Cup and RCFFS to join us at numerous events. Even with all this, car counts dwindled as other series sucked entries away (USF2000, F4, VRG, FE2 and more). SCCA Club started to view us as competition instead of partner.
Eventually we had to find a partner and found one with Parella Motorsports Holding. Track costs were increasing at an unsustainable rate to stay completely independent. We started the series 20 years ago renting track time, then became a renter/promoter, and now we're back to renting track time.
I am a firm believer that a rising tide floats all boats and the more we can collectively do to increase car count across the board will help all of us. Not only do existing cars need to come out of the garage, but there needs to be a supply of new cars that can be bought with a phone call.
I continue to work to that end to the extent that I, along with Angelo Zarra have become the importer of Ray Race cars to the US with the intent to supply a competitive F1600 and F2000 at a reasonable price. We have 6 new F1600 chassis arriving in early February.
I have just seen the supps/schedule for the Sebring Feb. race. Group 1 as the Major will be FV and FF and F600 as a 30 minute race separate from the other open wheel cars as the 'Feature Race' on Sunday.
Group 1 will also include Club Fords (CF) and Formula First (FSV) but be noted as non-Majors Classes for the 30 minute race.
Test Day will have all open wheel together. Saturday Practice Session & Saturday Qualifying Session and the 20 minute 'Sprint Race' will also have all open wheel classes combined.
Register via going into the Cabin Fever/Enduro entry not the SARRC portion. It will take you to all the race entries and test day too