Wasn't the MZR car being in FX the reason so many FMs didn't bother to run in FX at the Runoffs level? Could this actually be better for FM (FX) participation even if it doesn't really move the needle for FC?
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Wasn't the MZR car being in FX the reason so many FMs didn't bother to run in FX at the Runoffs level? Could this actually be better for FM (FX) participation even if it doesn't really move the needle for FC?
Hopefully. FX seems to have a good group of cars now that are close in speed. FM, 1st-gen F4, any Zetec FC that wants to double-dip, FormulaSPEED, and a couple obscurities. The outlier is the ridiculous old Super Vee. I don't know how many FM racers feel the bridge has been burned and won't be back.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshuaJustice
"The outlier is the ridiculous old Super Vee"Quote:
Originally Posted by dalz
What are you referring to? Air-cooled FSV of the mid 1970's?
For many years the air-cooled FSVs were legal to run as a F2000. Fortunately no one did to my knowledge. I am certain that my Z14 and the Lolas would have easily been faster than the Citation F2000. In a Goodyear tire test at Phoenix, the Z14 air-cooled FVS turned laps significantly faster that the fastest water cooled FVS that day. The speed gap was enough that in a race distance the Z14 would have either lapped the water cooled cars or come very close to doing so.
Yes, the SVs, up to the Ralt RT-5s of the '80s. I'm sure nothing else in FX could touch a well-prepared one. Although there has been discussion about whether they would be allowed to use their sidepod skirts. (Skirts! Cue music from The Knack!) That might slow them down a bit, but certainly not enough to keep them from disappearing from everything else.
IIRC the lap record for FA at PIR (Phoenix) is held by a FSV (with skirts).
I did run a Lola AC SV until 1994 at which time they were simply moved to FA by the SCCA with a 2 liter engine. Also at the same time the old roll bar specs were no longer grandfathered in. So I sold it to a guy who went vintage racing on the West Coast. But on a good day I could keep up with the mediocre F2000 cars (bad driver in the SV).:)Quote:
Originally Posted by S Lathrop
I thought a watercooled FSV (like a Ralt RT5) would be a killer in FX, too. But, I have not heard of any running in that class. I know there are plenty out there, probably running in vintage.
They have been in FA for a long time, too, right? I wonder, can they run in either FA or FX now?
I didn't think skirts (that can run near the track surface) were ever allowed in SCCA Club Racing, but I could be wrong.
I'd have never thought an aircooled FSV might be faster than an RT5 with tunnels (but again, could be wrong about that, too).
I haven't really added anything to this discussion, have I? :-)
My old '83 RT5. Great car.
https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/att...d=107238&stc=1
I think that Steve L and I were referring to an air cooled SV being potentially faster than an early F2000 car, not a Ralt SV.
The suspension worked better on even those early F2000, to the point that the better HP of the Air Cooled SV still was not competitive. Although some people hope otherwise.
Keith I did say on a good day keeping up with the mediocre F200 cars, not the fast ones....:o
Beautiful, Russ.Quote:
Originally Posted by RussMcB;652163
My old '83 RT5. Great car.
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I grew up pouring over every word and photo in the periodicals of the early '80s about the Ralts in action in Super Vee, Atlantic and even F3 in the European serieses. I couldn't tell them apart, but now I know the subtle cues. I thought the RT4s in FA looked the best, just because they had the biggest tires. But it was quite an era for Ralt. How about the sweet RH6 in F2?
Count me in as a fan of both Super Vee and Atlantic, going back to the early ‘70s.
When a mutual friend of both kea’s and ourselves bought an Anson SA-4 S/V recently, his intention was vintage. I did some homework to quickly realize not only were there few if any similar Super Vees to play with in vintage, there were none in FX.
I’d thought with the 1835 motor limit for a S/V in FX, with about 190 bhp, and ground-effects tunnels, plus running less weight than the Mazda-engined Van Diemens, it could be a sleeper package in FX. The Great Unknown is handling gains over twenty years’ of development, even with tunnels.
To wit, mentioned above, I think Super Vees were always allowed to use skirts in Club.
It pains me to see FX die, though my thoughts there seem to be in the minority. I realize there’s too many OW classes to fill grids already, and do wonder what F-Continental will evolve to.
There has to be over a hundred Super Vees sitting around in our country now, in various stages of disrepair. Maybe that’s fitting as it is identical to the street VW crowd... but I’d have thought vintage grids would have been much heavier by now, with such wonderful cars.
Ah well, such it is.
Not sure how the thread got so sidetracked, but great overdue news for FC. I don't know how many USF VDs are out there (I have heard as many as 40) but at minimum, that's 20+ instant potential cars to help keep the car counts up.
:greenflag::greenflag::greenflag:
I apologize if I missed something obvious on this thread or in the official release...but, is allowing the MZR motor/gearbox in FC effective immediately?
Jim
Post #129. The USF2000 VDs are now legal for FC as spec cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Nash
That does not mean an MZR engine would be legal in any other car.Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild
As it is, you can race a MXR engine in FC, if and only if you have in in a DP08 and run the car as specified in the pro series. The inclusion of these cars in FC works well for the future of FC in the short term and possibly longer.
Having the MZR engine in FC is something that is needed because all the other engine options are engines are out of production and no longer supported by the original manufactures. Going forward these engines will become ever more expensive to race. Right now, the Pinto with an aluminum head and the long rods is the most powerful option for FC. Much like the old Kent engine in FF. But they are both expensive options.
Now the big losers are the other chassis manufacturers. In the past, you could move a car from FF to FC by changing the motor and adding wings. VD is not the only manufacturer of cars that can fit in FC.
In FF, the Honda engine has done a lot for the future of FF. I would like to see the same thing for FC with the MZR engine.
We may have to do some on track testing with different chassis one with the Zetec and the same chassis with a MZR to get the right map for the MXR engine in FC.
How many MZR pro series cars would be expected to show up for club races? If it is one or two I do not see this as a problem unless they become insanely dominant. I have not heard anyone say that is likely to happen. If it injects some more cars into FC is that not a good ting?
Steve, I believe the original iron head with the new cam is probably the best option. Per the GCR, the new cam is not allowed to be used in the aluminum head.Quote:
Originally Posted by S Lathrop
I have now run one Runoffs and three Majors weekends with my very good QS long rod pinto, iron head engine. I have also now had the chance to run competitively against several Zetecs and pintos. At Pocono last weekend I got to run directly against a very good, fresh Zetec for a few competitive race laps including the long back straight and I believe the engines are now well equalized. A top rate fully developed, and properly geared pinto is fully competitive against a top Zetec.
I think the pinto bottom end should now be robust with good longevity but maybe we will need to look for updates to the valve train for even better top end longevity. Then we need to get the word out that a well developed pinto car is fully competitive. and has improved longevity
Having said that I do support bringing a new engine into the class as long as it is done properly and equilibrated with the Zetec and pinto - similar to what was done when we first brought the Zetec in.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with the Pinto. I was aware that it is a good engine option in FC, but you confirmed that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Silver
I should clarify my comments above. i think the Iron head pinto with the new cam is preferable to the aluminum head without the new cam. If you cant make weight, it may be different - I make 1190 lbs easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by S Lathrop
Relative to a Zetec I think think a properly geared and developed pinto can be the equal to a Zetec. The Zetec definitely has a broader, higher horsepower, and flatter power band below 6000 RPMs. But geared correctly and driven correctly (at the right RPMs) they look to be very close and even come off the corners pretty close.