One could probably make a better argument that a 92 VD is not competitive than a Kent is not competitive. What was your best lap time at RA again?
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One could probably make a better argument that a 92 VD is not competitive than a Kent is not competitive. What was your best lap time at RA again?
I would agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by starkejt
So either your package isn't obsolete or you are a stone cold mother****er behind the wheel. Happy First World Problems.
I'd say neither, but the obsolete part I see coming true pretty soon.
One cloudy day does not necessarily mean the sky is falling.
Thanks for the reply. I am not going to try to dissect and/or dispute your numbers. Too many variables. It seems like a lot of rounding up but I can't really say. Hopefully you will continue to race FF but given your take on finacing a conversion it might be best to bail now.Quote:
Thanks for your comments, Jim. In a better situation, I would do just that as I would much rather have a Honda, even with a 30mm. However, it may look like taking a year off is the answer. Let me explain a bit more.
Here is why I do not see the taking a year off scenario working for me, and likely others. First, taking a year off in order to race in the future just seems counter to the whole idea in the first place. I can race right now, but to remain competitive I have to take a year off?
Second, it would be much more than a year off, likely 3. So, lets say I can find a sucker to buy the boat anchor Kent, for $5k (which I feel is very generous figure if it is even sellable). That would leave at least a absolute minimum of $15k to cover. At about $8k a year the best is two years off if no other expenses occur, which we all know will happen when building a car.
Also, I spend on average $1500 a year in engine expense. At a $15k investment that is a minimum 10 year time frame before I even brake even. Oh wait, will a Honda go 10 years? Doubt it. Figure two crate engines in that time so that is at least another $5k. That is about 3 more years. So now, we are looking at 13 years before it is even economically beneficial at the absolute best case scenario!!!!!! If you go the boneyard route, we are still talking 11 years. And I have worked in auto collision repair for a while and know what comes out of junkyards....junk. I wouldnt want to risk a junkyard engine.
Take a minimum of two years off, or wait 13 years to break even. For me, neither of those are real interesting.
Just the way I see it from my couch.
Jim
I tired to be conservative on those numbers, but yes, many variables both ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Nash
And an issue with those looking to sell, is that Ford cars have little value. Seems they are looked at conversion projects and not race ready cars anymore.
Reid, if one of your Kent rebuilds ends up costing you closer $4-5K, which we all know can happen, that changes the equation quite a bit. Still a relatively long-term payoff and probably not the primary reason for the conversion. I think some people just like the idea of a more modern, EFI engine. Coming from FV, I sure would! :D
Agree 100%, that is a variable for sure. I have only done two rebuilds in 4 years, and it averaged out to about $1500 a year. Give or take, it can change of course. I do know the next one will need to be sleeved, so add $600 to the next bill right off the bat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt King
At least we don't burn oil like Fvs;) I can't count how many tear offs I have used with being on track with Vees.
Thanks to Paul and Reid for providing data points and observations that should be useful to people, like me, trying to sort out their next steps.
On the other hand, we could use a lot fewer decibels in the responses. Condescending, sarcastic, and personal remarks don't help me, at least, in the sorting out process. I've long felt that part of the attraction of racing in this class is people like Marc Blanc towing me around RA or him and Andy Kilcoyne pointing out what I could do better or Bill Valet unsolicited offering to watch my video to help me improve.
After many many years away from formula racing the Honda is bringing me back. I vowed I would never drive a formula ford again as long as it has a Kent engine. My last race was the 99 June Sprints and my motor broke my heart like my highschool girlfriend!! Never again. I guess it will be sad if others are leaving the sport because of the Honda...but with that being said I can only imagine how many people left ford racing after I did because of the Kent engine. In the end, it was SCCA's problem for still having the kent around when it should have been crushed and sent to China for scrap money years ago!!! Love me or hate me...I'm happy to be on the road driving as I write to get my new car. Put 1 in the colum for new cendiv racers because of Honda.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jawz
Welcome back Jim! Wow, that was 13 years ago. I remember you and the vector hauling ass that weekend. I'm sure everyone in cendiv following this thread are wondering what's your new ride?
Welcome back Jim! Good to see someone coming out.
What Ian said...what's the new ride? I starts with a P doesn't it?
Thanks Boys. It feels good to be back..well kinda of back. The car is not "new" but rather a fc db-6 that needs to be converted. She won't have a date with the track for a while. We will see happens. Hopefully it works well.
Yes. Yes it does.Quote:
Originally Posted by reidhazelton
JJ: Great news and it will be good to see you back. You're going to like the new Brainerd layout. Where did the DB-6 come from?
The passing of long time friend and FF driver Scott Hutchison last week got me digging thru some old results sheets. 1980 June Sprints saw 80 FFs on the grid with four "alternate starters" listed. I know we will never get back to those days, but only 11 FFs at Sprints this year? Come on! So many reasons for this but I think the primary one has to be the proliferation of formula car classes. Back then you had Fords, Vees, Atlantics and Super Vees. A decent Ford or Vee could be acquired for about 5 grand or less. The Sprints pretty much lost their appeal for me when I was almost driven off track at the kink (and other corners) by kamikaze FM cars after we lost our single class status there in the 90s. In '90 there were still 50 FFs in the single class event. By '98 we were down to 35 cars and the next year saw 35 FFs and 20 FM starters. By '01 Mazdas got the upper hand with 45 cars over 34 FFs in rush hour-like qualifying and from then on I was outta there.
I'm probably stuck with the Kent from now until they put my Swift in the crusher (with me in it) An engine option was really a long time coming but may be out of reach for me given my circumstances: old car and older driver. For what it's worth, talking to Rubenzer after the Brainerd race he felt that he and Bartz' Honda were really about dead even out of the corners and at the end of the long straight. Still love the class and the classy people (like Scott) in it!
A video comparison of the first lap of the race...a 2:29.9 compared to a 2:31.1? I don't see any significance in that what so ever.
I didn't gain on Scotty (once he bolted down his carb) in the race the way I did on Reid. I believe the Honda did a better job of mapping on that particular weekend and nothing else.
The reported HP numbers are nuts! The Honda is sub 115, and I know (because I had one) the top Kent's are north of 117 and no longer lack the torque.
We switched to Honda to save our sanity and afford a little more racing.
With the right set up, chassis & motor (& driver), the Kent is capable of winning at any track on any weekend, and so, I believe is the Honda, just with a lot less tunning effort and potential financial hemorrhaging.
I am curious what Reid thinks of this whole debate, wish he would weigh in.......
John, I'm with you....Let's Race!
Tim
FF88
Thanks for weighing in Tim, I was wondering how you could miss all this fun....Quote:
Originally Posted by flycoop
I would say the lap times themselves are pointless, yes, but it was the straight line speed I was looking at, not lap times.
And to be that close to your best time right out of the trailer says something too, one- you guys have it figured out, and two- the Honda is at an absolute minimum equal to the best Kents. Then take into consideration how slow the track was (every class was slow by about 2 seconds, give or take) and to be that close to that time....leads me to think that Honda is a better package. I know what my choice in engine would be if I had the resources.
Let's race...? pfffff. Let's get into insult ridden, pointless internet debates about racing that will never lead to anything anyway...it's a lot cheaper and there are not any stewards to blow it up.;)
RH
I'm ready to fight. Let's go.
http://i.imgur.com/VJrcM.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by starkejt
No way. Have you seen how tall Tim is? I bet he has at least a 3 inch reach advantage. One hit to the left side of my face and I'll go down like a sack of potatoes.
In the fight or flight decision, I run like hell.
I ran farther back then tim and reid unfortunatley because of some handling issues we still haven't got our hands on yet, but whenever I was aroundWheatcroft or Marc Blanc I saw no advantage on the straightaway. Also as Tony said before I ran with Scott at Brainerd virtually all race and we were dead even in a straight line. In the infield I was a bit quicker but Scotts car was pretty loose and he lost time becuase of that.
Just my two cents
Jeff Bartz
FF #33
True, but I had deployed the DRS before the DRS zone and was really moving on the straights. :tire:
I ran further back than Reid and Tim and whole bunch of others because they are faster than I am. Grrrrr.
We're not faster, it's the KERS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen_W