There will be more pink shirts in the paddock, but not tongue-in-cheek like the Fat Boys:rolleyes:
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There will be more pink shirts in the paddock, but not tongue-in-cheek like the Fat Boys:rolleyes:
With the amount of views this thread has, there has to be some contractors out there that could gestimate what a project of this size would cost to do. The site plans are right there for your review.
With 118 "members" Skip has at $100K ($110K minus the $10K tax) that's $11.8 million. With the "offer" of assoc memberships now on the table, Skip must be getting nervous that there is not going to be the "300 limited memberships" sold as he hoped for and he's starting to panic. I know that land around the track was purchassed (14 acres I think) to be able to move the entrance and crossover bridge at I can only imagine how much money. Can the "upgrades" or "downgrades" as I like to call them plus a clubhouse be completed and built for $11.8Mill minus the price of 14 lush green Connecticut acres of land?
I would love to here profesional opinions. If you don't want to post it here, Email me directly.
I think they should follow in Prince's lead and call it "The track formerly know as Lime Rock". Now all I have to do is take the Wilson pdf drawing and get some Tee shirts made with the track layout and new name (see above).
Ed
I like Eddie Callos idea...."The Track Formerly Known as Lime Rock".
Put me down for a couple of XL's, a couple of L's and M's as well.
et's see, shirt color, something that doesn't hide or show track dirt to much, maybe
RED ?
I'll work on it.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rand
Name the track formerly known as Lime Rock, eh?
My contribution: Skippit (as in "Skip" It)
And I thought the T-shirt color would be obvious, Mike - bright, screaming, LIME green!
Lime Rock Park 1957-2008
Lime Rock Playground 2008-
hey rand, sorry for joining the fray a bit late, but i think yellow is an appropriate color as that seems to be the general concensus of member day speed. and for the other mike... as a friend and health care professional, i feel compelled to advise you to stop holding back and tell us how you really feel or i'm afraid you might pop something....ric
How does the insurance work for the track? Does SCCA cover the cost of the event or does LRP pay for insurance for the event?
By default , LRP is saying the Old Layout is too dangerous and needs a slower design. So if something happens, now you can sue because they are allowing you to run on something they know is too dangerous.
So in this day, wouldn't you expect an insurance company to say we will not insure events on the old course? Or make it so expensive to not run it?
I think what bothers me an a lot of people, is that LRP seems to want to make it difficult and expensive for the SCCA, real club racers,to race there. And that is how the place came to be.
Maybe the unconscious socialist in me thinks SCCA should get a price break and the private clubs with the $$ should pay an additional fee. The "Club Racers Particiation Fee" of an additional $50 or something if the dollars are critical.
Maybe we should take those old LRP Dates that are canceled and host some kind of Race Car show and autocross in CT, with all the money going to Palmer.
Or make an old LRP effigy and burn it at the last race while chanting "Skippy". Make a bog and burn some cars while we are at it. Go out in style, make the news and history books. It will end , so lets do something the grandchildren can laugh about.
Why doesn't somebody just call the track and ask what configuration will be used for SCCA races? (You have the phone number, don't you Mike?) That might be better than all this innuendo and "conspiracy theory" stuff - even though it does make for some good off-season fun on the internet! Hey, I mean it looks to me like the "Track Formerly Known as Lime Rock" will still be there and that there will simply be alternate layouts attuned to other purposes deemed to be valid. What's wrong with that? And what if introducing one of the new turns in the layout now and then "turned" out to be blast? Track designer Alan Wilson's no dummy! Announcing the death of the Road Racing Center of the East seems a bit presumtuous.
John,
My post regarding the 2008 NARRC Runoffs was because a New York Region official called me and proposed that they use the latest version for the NARRCOFFS.
Allegedly the track configuration option is the track renter/users and not dictated by the track, so calling the track office would most likely get a confused silence on the other end of the phone call. The turnover of knowledgeable staff has accelerated recently.
Have you ever raced on an Alan Wilson track ? Kershaw/CMP ? BeaveRun ? His street course experience seems to carry over to his purpose built track configurations.
His slow corners tend to be real slow and unless I miss my bet these extensions will be very much the antithises of what Lime Rock has been for it's first 50 years.
Hopefully the on the ground engineering will be appropriate and not rushed. Remember, they have a brief window of time to get all the grading, sub-base, base coat and top coat asphalt work done in order for it to cure for at least a few weeks. Any weather glitches and it will be major problems. Then there is the reconfiguations of the corner stations for the available options, curbing sufficent and appropriate, barriers/tire walls/debris fencing, it is a huge job to get done in 30 days. Not that it can't be done, I am just glad I have no part to play in it.
SCCA racing is always covered by SCCA Risk Management. And anyway, tracks have been changed many many times, that does not imply it was to dangerous before simply someone believed they had a better idea. For spectator events the track buys Event Liability and Spectator Insurance but the participants are always covered by the sanctioning body of the cars on course at any given time. That means when there is Grand Am [the 6 Hour], NASCAR [Busch East or North or whatever the hell it is to be called in 2008], SCCA Pro [World Challenge GT and Touring] and IMSA [Formula Mazda] sanctioned races on a single weekend, like there is at Watkins Glen on the 6 Hour weekend in June, the workers and drivers protection for Participant Accident Insurance is provided by the organization whose cars are on track at that moment. Yes, that means there are at a minimum 4 different PA Policies bought for that one weekend.
Keep in mind gang, SCCA-specifically New England and MoHud Regions-were offered the extended 4th of July time window, it is actually a 2.5 unmuffed window in 2008 through one of the vagaries of the Injunction, but turned it down. Then the Double NARRC was scheduled at Pocono and it is hard to imagine any region taking the risk of not losing a huge amount of money given the Lime Rock track rental expense of trying to run opposite a double NARRC, even if it is at Pocono.
Joe, one point you make I agree with and I even offered up before right here on Apex: Skip came from SCCA so perhaps he should consider having mercy by reducing SCCA weekend rates and offsetting that reduction with the "Club" income! What could be more appropriate?
And, hey, speaking of Palmer, what's up with that? The Palmer info website hasn't been updated in a year!!
Mike, I appreciate your further comments but I find the rampant whinging about what Skip has decided to do with his track to be a bit tiresome. I mean, for cryin' out loud, the washboards will be gone, drivers' dental fillings won't be shaken loose every lap and the runoff areas will be much improved. What more could anyone ask.......except for lower weekend rental rates?
I think the whining is justified. Remember when Jake Lamont and others got a whole bunch of us fired up, and ultimately slightly united, towards a common enemy. The danger to our class posed by parts shortages and limited engines for newbies or even existing car owners to purchase. Here we go again. If we get people talking to NYR, NER and MOHUD, maybe we can get the configuration we want scribbled into the Supps. If we stay silent we are leaving it all to some other force to decide if we get to drive our racecars on a gokart track, or on a scary, fast real race track. The loss of the bumps is a must, whether it is the classic configuration or the tight one. I don't enjoy New Hampshire and I doubt I will enjoy the new LRP for about the same reasons. With the proximty of LRP to our homes here it would really be fun if we could race the fast version, with fewer bumps, a bit better runoff if available and without having to pay a ridiculously high entry fee. Probably too much to ask for, but again, if we don't squeak we will not get the grease.
So building up the awareness of what could happen if we don't unite and act is a good thing. When it comes time to send letters and petitions to get what we want, at least the groundwork is done. For that matter, those who are in favor of the circuit fromage layout can understand who they have to convince.
One thing we should find out soon is this. how many sanctioning bodies and clubs will use the classic? If it is rarely used, you can kiss it goodbye. We will have to watch what the pro series do when they are there in July but I predict that if it is only an SCCA deal and then only sometimes, at some point the effort to put the fast course configuration together will lose out.
and for the other mike... as a friend and health care professional, i feel compelled to advise you to stop holding back and tell us how you really feel or i'm afraid you might pop something....ric[/quote]
Pop? POP? I could freakin SPIT I'm so damn mad! What's that stuff you use to knock out your paitents with? Whatever it is, send some of it up here!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maureen Harris
I think we have a winner! The T-shirt should have a picture of the I can't even say it! Alright, the "new" (FU-K I said it) track layout from the PDF and Skipit in the middle of the track. I'm down for a half dozen. Anybody wana get this done?
Roux is right (again). I will NEVER attend a RACE on the formage track. I would attend a SCDA driving club event on it but that is not racing. With any luck The formage track will be for C/C members only and "the rest of us" won't ever turn a wheel on formage.
SEM
Mike A, put me down for two in medium please....
Cheese and "Pro Racing"
You can be absolutely positively sure that IMSA/ALMS will be on the cheesier version, hard to imagine NASCAR Busch East-North-whatever the hell it's name is now using the latest, can you imagine the braking issues those taxi cabs would have trying to stop 4 times each 1.5 mile [1.6 now ?] lap., Vintage ? Anyone's guess. Grand Am precedes all this by a day as the construction equipment will be staged ready to roll Tuesday am May 27, but in 2009 ?
Re "Skip-it" shirts for the track formerly known as Lime Rock, I am in for a dozen.
This just in:
Each group will be able to run whatever configuration they want. The original one will stay intact as promised.
If you have a desire for a certain config, let your local comp board know!!!
Here's some LRP pic's taken by a guy over on the production car web site.
http://www.timlinerud.com/racing/Lime_Rock/
"The original one will stay intact as promised."
WOW! Amazing news! The "Track Formerly Known as Lime Rock" will still be there!
I always had the impression that it would. The changes plan looked like it integrated the two tracks. Maybe that's why I missed a certain amount of the fuss about this.
What will be very different is the viual ques that we have all come to know and love.....back to school!
The historic bridge to the infield is gone!
I remember my dad taking me to LRP as a kid. We were in the car on the bridge as something like an AS Camaro or Corvette went under us at speed. That was thrilling. That is part of what made me the car/speed addicted nut that I am today.
The bridge is not gone, it has been plucked off it's perch and the abutments on either side of the track raised 4'. When done, the bridge will be placed back in it's place. No wider, no stronger, just more clearance to the track surface.
Hey Brendan, the dates on the shirt should be 1957-2007, shouldn't they ? This being 2008 and this work being undertaken in a few months.......
Is the bridge long enough to reach across the old track and the new pit entrance? I don't remember its being that long.
Paul, it must be that they are taking away some of the drivers left verge and using all the drivers right verge to do the pit in lane. Basically moving the bridge a few feet to the right with the new abutments maybe. The span is no different , it maybe is located slightly differently due to the newly constructed abutments. The bridge itself is exactly the same WWII surplus Bailey Bridge it has been from the late 50's. Keeps passing a yearly engineering inspection, but then so did I55 in Minneapolis I guess......
Mike, you know, I saw that picture of the bridge hiked up four feet and couldn't believe they'd keep that thing what with all the other monies being spent! Strange!
New bridge is part of a second wave of changes. My guess is as more momey comes in, more projects will get completed.
So now that we have come up with a new name for the place I think we need to come up with names for the new corners. At the track formally known as Lime Rock we had the left hander followed by the right hander, clean and simple. On the new Skipit course the soul has been taken out of the left hander, maybe we should just call it lefty. That is followed by I don't know what where the right hander was on the old course and from looking at the layout I think "WHAT THE F...." best descrips it. As for the climbing turns at the uphill, still working on that.
Ed
I received this in the mail today. They're calling it " two Lime Rock Parks"
MEDIA ADVISORY
Lime Rock Park to Break Ground on Track Upgrades and Re-Paving
Lime Rock Legends John Fitch and Sam Posey Join Skip Barber for Launch of
Major Improvements to Track
We invite you to be a part of history as Lime Rock Park breaks ground on track upgrades and re-paving. Creating what will be "two Lime Rock Parks," we will reveal optional track configurations along with other major improvements
WHAT: Groundbreaking ceremonies at Lime Rock Park, for a series of major
upgrades and improvements to the track
WHEN: Thursday, 10 April 2008 Promptly at 11:00am
WHERE: Lime Rock Park
Infield Chalet (use the Main Entrance)
Lakeville, CT 06039 USA
www.limerock.com
1.800.RACE.LRP
Media opportunities include a detailed press conference, Q&A session, track tours, interviews and lunch.
For more information and to confirm attendance, please contact Renea Topp, Marketing and PR Manager for Lime Rock Park
It can't be "Two Lime Rock Parks".
They are going from hamburgers and beer to cheese and wine! Therefore, the new name must be Lime Rock Park the Second or LRP II.
How about......LRP Junior , for the not so brave Sir Robins out there.....
Lime Rock Lite
Lime Rock Pharked?
Lime Rock Farce
Lame Pepple Parks
For the uphill, how about "baby steps"?Quote:
Originally Posted by EACIII
Which one is "Please don't hurt my expensive Ferrari" corner?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Garry
For the "two tracks" they could just name one Lime Rock and the other one(s) Lame Rock. Or they could just refer to them as the "Classic Circuit" and the "Clusterf**k Circuit(s).
I will never do another track day there...ever.
I'm probably going to buy a car (CF/FF) later this year for next season and then they go and do this to my favorite tracke ever! Aaargh!! I don't have a ton of experience or as many memories as some of the other people on ApexSpeed, but I have raced at Bridgehampton,LRP and Bryar. I miss them. More so than any of them, Lime Rock meant road racing for me. It's where I first caught this fever. I look forward to seeing the new track in New Jersey and I hope and pray every night that the new Palmer track will be epic. It can't come soon enough.
Larry C
Hey gang, I'm going, if you are around why not see what they say, might be interesting, or discouraging.
MEDIA ADVISORY
Lime Rock Park to Break Ground on Track Upgrades and Re-PavingWe invite you to be a part of history as Lime Rock Park breaks ground on track upgrades and re-paving. Creating what will be “two Lime Rock Parks,” we will reveal optional track configurations along with other major improvements.
Lime Rock Legends John Fitch and Sam Posey Join Skip Barber for Launch of
Major Improvements to
Groundbreaking ceremonies at Lime Rock Park, for a series of major
upgrades and improvements to the track.
WHEN: Thursday, 10 April 2008
Promptly at 11:00am
WHERE: Lime Rock Park
Infield Chalet (use the Main Entrance)
Lakeville, CT 06039 USA
www.limerock.com
1.800.RACE.LRP
Media opportunities include a detailed press conference, Q&A session, track tours, interviews and lunch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rand
YEA,...... And get my a$$ beat !
Agnif , why would you get your a$$ beat ? You think there is anyone who works there who would even recognize any SCCA racers ? Come on, we can sit in the back and just watch and listen. First hand iformation without spin or filtering.
He won't ask for the right kind of cheese, and will get a cramp in his hand if he keeps his pinky out all morning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rand
Mike,
please go and get as you point out, the unfiltered version. Knowledge is power,
Agnif is not afraid of speed, but some press types have him quivering? Not sure I understand that !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roux
Not really afraid of "press types". Afraid of my big mouth and Rand egging me on. Sounds like a recipe for a brawl! Plus I'm too damn busy at the shop to go to a wankfest with a bunch of cheese eaters in the middle of a work day!
can't decide if i would want to be a fly on the wall, or sell tickets.
Update 4/4
I stopped by yesterday and toured around, they open for the season today, a horrible cold wet day, and of course forgot the digital camera.
The Bridge is all back in place, new abutments, paved re-graded approaches, but the exact same bridge.
It is just 4' higher off the track.
The bridge span itself has been shifted over the track to accomodate the assorted plans they seem to not be able to decide on for new Pit In. Slight realignment of barriers, added armco drivers right under and downhill of the bridge, not much else, the Flag Station, while not in the exact precise location is very close and all but identical.
Certainly alters the sight picture on approach but as none of the cars using LRP was 8'+ tall anyway it really makes no difference.
I was told that IMSA/ALMS, read Tim Mayer and Scott Atherton, demanded the bridge be raised because, well, "A car could get airborne and hit the bridge.". I suppose the extra 4' of clearance could make a difference but it cost a huge amount and ultimately they will need to do it all over when they upgrade the bridge itself to allow tractor trailer rigs to use it and accomodate spectator foot traffic lanes so traffic doesn't come to a halt for a single person sauntering down the middle of a drive lane.
And using the "a car COULD get there" logic, a car COULD get into the walkover bridge at Big Bend, a car COULD do many things, so what's next ?
Everyone needs to understand, in 2006 Charlie Whiting, FIA Track Inspector and F1 Clerk of the Course [what we call the Chief Steward maybe ?] [A good guy even if he is FIA affiliated, he's a non-Nazi, non- S&M aficionado] inspected the track and granted an FIA certificate. Not for F1 obviously, but "appropriate for the scheduled events". I walked the trackwith him that day, he thought it looked like a great drivers track. And the subsequent 2007 "upgrades" of additional debris fencing, cabling, barriers, tire walls etc had not be done, so that sends a message.
Latest on "The Club", the leader Stephan apparently is demanding that on shared days,when a PCA or BMWCCA group splits the track time with 'The Club" that prime A Paddock space be roped off and reserved for "The Club" membes. I guess so they don't have to walk to far to the concession [until their clubhouse is built] or restrooms.
Next Thursday is going to be interesting.
Are they going to re-pave the old sections of the track NOW or are we going to hear that they will do it later - just like we have been hearing for the last 10 + years. I assume you all have seen http://www.timlinerud.com/racing/Lim..._Changes-1.pdf Ray Dona P.S. So they had to raise the bridge so the ALMS cars would not hit it - too funny - or is that what's called "negative downforce".
They are repaving the whole current track and adding the new stuff. A new bridge will be constructed in a second wave but the new abutments were needed to accomodate the positioning of the new pit-entrance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Dona
They have done EXTENSIVE research on what mix of material to use for the track. This is going to be the best of the best stuff according to the CEO.
Maybe they raised the bridge so big rigs could come in through their usual gate but get to the paddock by driving down the track to pit in, thus relieving infield traffic conjestion? Just a thought.
Kevin from Comprent did figure out a way to get Freejack to hit a bridge...;)