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I really -- for god knows what reason -- find this entire enterprise really offensive. The PR campaign, the principals, the car itself -- especially the car itself.
I must just be getting old and eccentric and really grouchy to have such a strong response -- but I do.
I hate this thing!
The engine used in the Chevy Cruze touring car was produced by RML. Chevy just had the "naming rights". This same engine in the Delta Wing has naming rights by Nissan.
There guys?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Nygard
http://www.rmlmallock.co.uk/web/RML-Engines
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Crowe
Yeah, I pretty much hate it also. I always thought of Highcroft as a professional team. Why they went this route is unclear to me. I thought they were going Indy racing.
Racing to me is big wings, tires and hp.
But plenty of people are excited about it so it's all good. At least it is better than electric racecars. Don't get me started about them.
Corrected link (semi-colon removed at end)
http://www.gordonkirby.com/categorie..._is_no327.html
I was too busy racing. Did they run it at the Sebring 12 Hour? Results?
.Quote:
Originally Posted by a. pettipas
Okay, if this is the one of the most important American made vehicles to head to LeMans in years, WHERE ARE THE AMERICAN DRIVERS TO DRIVE IT?! :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Crowe
That's the really sad part... :thumbsdown:
Maybe they were all too busy saying it looked stupid and would never turn..
The RML link will go further than just the motor. Rumour has it the car will leave these shores to be developed in the UK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick R.
I am pretty sure Alex Gurney will be a third driver for it. He drove it at Buttonwillow already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Edick
I don't think anyone is talking about it being a great AMERICAN invention. Just a revolutionary car. AAR is involved and I think he will likely have a say in a driver (Alex). Duncan Dayton is involved and will have a say in a driver (Marino). Nissan is involved and will likely have a say in a driver (Krumm).
You're not alone. I was not impressed by the "out of the box thinking" of the Deltawing. The implication that it was going to be some sort of open wheel replacement, as all the old designs would become "obsolete" upon its arrival was the real treat. The car works with no horse power because it is a big list of things the open wheel rule makers banned because it would make the cars too fast...Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Crowe
WOW, active differentials and stability control can improve vehicle response. Who would have guessed? Certainly not the rule makers that limited or banned the tech or the OEMs that install those systems in their passenger cars, busses, tractors, mobile popsicle stands, ect... Really, unrestricted ground effects can make a great deal of downforce without being as sensitive as wings? You mean if you put fenders around the exposed tires they generate less drag? Please tell me more about these radical new engineering concepts.
For the record, I have no doubts the car will perform on track. Much like pigs can fly when provided with sufficient thrust, even a trike can turn well with enough torque steering. I still haven't figured out the problem this thing was intended to solve.
-Kyle
efficiency... they (in this case ACO) are allowing it because they want to open up, re- formula, for an efficiency spec or class. (we can suppose that indycar decided that was not important to their sport) a possible reason its not electric drive is for evolution simplicity. but i would think they imagine the concept could evolve to onboard power and electric drive - once something like fuel cells are suited to race cars). which is also probably why they are allowing all the trick stability and differential controls, since that would be essentially inherent(able) in an AC polyphase dual motor application.Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Sampson
so - ACO has been on an efficiency formula kick... it brought about the diesel loop holes. and now this (essentially aero and fuel efficiency vs. power and downforce compromise) experiment...
so in a way, i say more power to them, even though it is stupid to clip the open wheels off the front and narrow them in, but thats an aero over dynamics objective. i am all for a racing formula that promotes relevant technology to the road. and in some ways... i think this could have some value. but yea - its ugly, and kinda stupid'ish. in fact, i wish formula one would switch to a formula more geared towards efficiency. spec a volume and/or weight of fuel and open kers spec. and let the engineers figure out the best compromise to get around the track as fast as possible on that much smaller ration of fuel, rather than a spec a ration of displacement with open fuel consumption... very little relevant innovation going on in F1 these days.
I look at this thing and imagine batman driving with robin in the left seat. You know, capes flapping and all. What I can't imagine is this thing going almost flat out in turn 1 at Sebring. I am sure this is more to this car than my imagination, and my hat is off to American innovation. But........
"to the bat cave, robin!"
Sorry , but when you get an image stuck in your head....
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Sampson
Please provide information that supports this assertion. Just curious where you came up with it. I have followed the cars development with interest and never saw anything presented by AAR, Ganassi or Highcroft that could be interpreted like you have.
Jim
Simple - the almost constant use of "Game Changer" in describing the car.
"Obsolete" and "game changer" are not really interchangeable but I think this is one of those things I best let go.
I hope they do well at the 24 hours.
Jim
I look at it and reminisce. Gary and Ace, those two guys, they changed the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett Lane
They should do fine - after all, it is just a demonstration run.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Nash
In the context of the technical exercise of vehicle dynamics, "game changer" denotes that they have discovered something that has previously been overlooked and would forever change how race cars are looked at and designed.
Unfortunately, in this case, it is nothing of the sort - it is merely a repackaging of tried-and-true items in a specific manner in order to get a specific outcome. The same outcome could be obtained via a more "conventional" manner if it really were desired, and at a higher performance level (eg - lower lap times) by utilizing all the laws of physics instead of resorting to artificial means to patch over shortcomings.
It will still be interesting to watch their progress, however.
I understand that this "car" has been testing at Sebring the last few days? Anyone have some lap times? Even more interesting would be segment times. The only problen that I have with the concept is that if the Delta car becomes a top level racer(Indycar, LMP 1), what do the junior series that feed into it look like?
My old man is a flagger at Sebring and works most if not all testing that goes on there. He said the Audi R18 Quattro was doing 1:43.7's and the Deltawing was doing 56's or something like that.
Lap record is a 43.2???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron B.
56s? that's only a touch quicker than a club DSR car isn't it?
Between LMPC and pointy end of of GTQuote:
Originally Posted by HazelNut
so then thats looking promising, from an efficiency perspective. we can 'assume' it will use far less fuel (at least 1/2 the cyl and a 1/4 the displacement? - f/i albeit) than lmpc... and it has essentially zero development into it (where an lmpc has not only the decades of fundamental design, but the ongoing specific chassis design). so it "should" get only faster after a few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by a. pettipas
i am surprised it thats fast right out of the box. ... i wouldn't have given it that much credit. it would be curious to see the 'top speed' trap times compared to other cars running similar lap times. i suspect, it would be pretty fast on the straights - it looks like a salt flat racer more than a road course car for sure.
Exactly. Much like the tone of my earlier post implied my dislike for the Deltawing spec racer, the initial press releases for the IRL variant implied the Deltawing was such an advanced design that no one in their right mind would want to race a current day open wheel car again.Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Pare
If efficiency was the real goal they would have suggested an energy cap formula, as yourself and many other capable engineers have suggested. The Deltawing was simply a gimmic so people would pay attention. If I put on my marketing hat to think about it the whole setup is perfect for drawing attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by fitfan
They build a car, its radical. And it works. Give them some credit. All of us have busted our tail on cars and understand the massive effort and commitment this must have been.
We should all be in their corner.
It has the same wheelbase as the new DW12 Indycar. True story.
could very well be, and i certainly do not know enough about the project to make a judgement either way! but another possibility is that "if" efficiency were the goal - marketing would be an important obstacle to overcome... so maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle? a "poster child" for a more energy efficient formula in the future? ..you know, like thoose skiny starving kids with no teeth, yes, it kinda looks like that to me too :ha:Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Sampson
anyways - insensitive humor aside, i guess the question is then "what" are they trying to draw attention to?
'They build a car, its radical. And it works."
Works how? It doesn't have a catagory, it isn't fast, it isn't even originial. It's the tumerous outgrowth of another program.
This isn't a race car -- it's a promotion. And only from that point of view does it work.
I hate this miscreant in every respect.
how is it not a racecar?
I guess my question is....
If it's a PROMOTION:
WHAT is it promoting? Delta wings for taking the kids to hockey?
If it's a RACE CAR:
Does it have a serious chance of wining Le Mans sorta like a Shelby Cobra or a Ford GT-40?
What EXACTLY is the objective of this "project"?
I think it's a 'secret project' by Al Qaeda to imbarrass the U.S.A.
Why I loved the old USAC Indy500 rules a more run what you brung type of racing.If it worked then everyone wanted one or copied it!! Dan Gurney had his share of very good ideas(Gurney lip,a number of engines) and some not so good Ideas(offset car in the mid to late 70s). With all the computer simulation at hand anymore you would think that they would already know what potential it has.
I am not a big fan of letting it on the track during the race for any reason where drivers are putting there lives on the line !!!!!!!!!!!
If it is such a great idea then get in a class and compete or GO AWAY!!
TOO MANY PEOPLE SPEND SO MUCH MONEY AND TIME TO COMPETE TO LET SOMEONE TEST,PROMOTE OR SHOWOFF THEIR IDEA!
It really does not have that much less frontal area than the Audi a lot less horses and tire patch.I feel like I am in the SCCA AND THEY ARE SHOVING A NOTHER SPEC FORMULA CAR UP MY A@#
JUST MY 50CENTS WORTH Lee Allan Jordan
http://www.metroevents.com/jordaneng/index.htm
Isn't the Delta wing "car" basically a motorcycle sidecar roadracer? Look at the stuff that races at the Isle of Mann TT, those are really quick and same concept as the Delta except driving position is different and the "monkey" is eliminated and replaced with some sort of electric diff. Some of the TT sidecars look to have significant aero downforce too. Whats new?
Lee,
Lotus and other builders were building offset cars long before AAR.
I think Dan Gurney is involved for the engineering exercise. If anyone thinks that it will get within 20 seconds of a competitive LMP1 time at LeMans, I think that is a big pipe dream.
Interesting engineering exercise though and useful things might be learned from it.
Try Kurtis Roadsters,Millers and a few others I am sure did offset long before Lotus but they ALL built them to a set of rules and raced them.
The delta wing thing is nothing more than some bodies concept that they are trying to make money on.Ok IRL DID NOT BUY IT SO WE WILL SEE WHO IS DUMB ENOUGH TOO!!
THAT IS IT IN A NUT SHELL !! NOTHING MORE
LEE
Not so much, it is more like a cousin of this classic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy O'Brien
Obviously :rolleyes:
-- one of those Dennis-the-Menace kinds of things you never really do:
Write every sponsor associated with this sham and tell them you will not purchase their products because of their participation in this outrage! :meatball::blackflag::meatball::blackflag::meatbal l::blackflag::meatball:
It ain't even American! Pirate Brits are behind most of it!
Aw, the horror. The horror...