Perspective from a Club Ford racer
For what little it's worth. Having to buy a set of tires for my CF that I can't run with the sanctioning bodies that I already run with for one or two SCCA events is a deterrent for me. Allowing the use of the Hoosier VFF tire would eliminate one of the factors that are currently making running with the SCCA not particularly enticing.
Just some more input from a member of one of the groups that you're trying to attract.
tire pace, wear, VFF testing??
The difference between the bias play slicks and treads in pace is a window of 1-2 seconds depending on conditions and session length. I have no experience on the radial in an FF so I can't compare. I do however have experience on the radial in multiple SRF3 races. Tires play a huge factor in pace and wear rather quickly when you're running at the front.
I've found that the treaded tire is just as durable, if not more durable, than the bias ply slick. You can stay competitive with a tire that has 6 heat cycles vs. a tire that is brand new from my observations. Could be a viable solution if guys with modern FF's are willing to at least try the VFF at a regional or a test session. We need data from guys currently running at the National level if we want to make any headway towards to universal tire for all eras of FF.
Change to VFF would create better racing and be easier on the pockets since you don't need new shoes every race to fight for a win. After all, this is our hobby. I respect everyone running at a high level in FF, but we need to realize we're doing this for fun and want to sustain the class. Cheaper budget for tires and closer racing seems like a pretty strong selling point to me. FF is a stronghold in the history of the Club and deserves to remain. Depends on us, the competitors, to steer the Club in the right direction. Let's keep an open mind and consider it.
VFF versus bias ply slicks
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jake King
The difference between the bias play slicks and treads in pace is a window of 1-2 seconds depending on conditions and session length. I have no experience on the radial in an FF so I can't compare. I do however have experience on the radial in multiple SRF3 races. Tires play a huge factor in pace and wear rather quickly when you're running Speaking with an experienced local racer local racerWe've found that the treaded tire is just as durable, if not more durable, than the bias ply slick. You can stay competitive with a tire that has 6 heat cycles vs. a tire that is brand new from my observations. Could be a viable solution if guys with modern FF's are willing to at least try the VFF at a regional or a test session. We need data from guys currently running at the National level if we want to make any headway towards to universal tire for all eras of FF.
Change to VFF would create better racing and be easier on the pockets since you don't need new shoes every race to fight for a win. After all, this is our hobby. I respect everyone running at a high level in FF, but we need to realize we're doing this for fun and want to sustain the class. Cheaper budget for tires and closer racing seems like a pretty strong selling point to me. FF is a stronghold in the history of the Club and deserves to remain. Depends on us, the competitors, to steer the Club in the right direction. Let's keep an open mind and consider it.
This information is from an experienced local racer and lap time data. We see similar differences in time but more like 2 to 2.5 seconds on fast tracks and 3.5 sec on tracks that have more turns. The VFF tire last twice as long as the bias ply slick, two weekends on the VFF one weekend with slicks, 12 and 6 heat cycles, respectively. We also suspect that the drop off is less with the VFF tire.
Formula Ford Tire Discussion
I thought that since this thread had a lot of good discussion about FF tires that this should be reposted here.
This is a repost from Tony Stefanelli: Formula F/1600 Racing USA
We are finalizing the idea and hopefully the wording of a FF tire rule change in the ZOOM call tomorrow night. We really hope to capture the wishes of this team. Please participate if you care about this topic. The ZOOM Address is now in the about section, but also here:
https://us05web.zoom.us/j/8201314112...E2YweV8a3HBw.1
Meeting ID: 820 1314 1123
Passcode: G5G7wm
If you are having trouble with the above link go the "Formula F/1600 Racing USA" Facebook page. The link is also there.
Larry
Please continue to participate
Jonathan,
Please continue to add your 2 cents, you are respected member of the community and your input is valued. The beauty of Apexspeed is that it always has spirited debate with respect and we all passionate about our sport and only want the best for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jonathan Lee
Thanks for your reply TeamWisconsin, the information was helpful.
I do not see why you accused me of fear-mongering. I have brought up very realistic issues and future problems that are likely to happen with drastic rule changes.
I'm getting the feeling that many of you do not appreciate my inputs. As someone who is probably more invested than most in this class, I think I have very valid points.
My interest is only in the best intention of helping the class that I love, the class that I've grew up with, and the class that I see as potentially being once again- one of the most popular formula car classes for club racing (if we play our cards right).
Since many people on this website seem to be so locked in- on what they believe in, and won't listen to input that is more than level-headed; I think I will just walk away from most of Apexspeed.
Hoosier VFF First Time Experience
Although this thread has veered off course, this is probably the best place to put this.
Last weekend I ran with VARA at Willow Spring, CA on the Hoosier VFF tire for the first time. We had 14 FF, spread across 3 classes, I ran with the Modern FF class. The car was setup with much softer rear springs, maybe too soft. The driving feedback was much better than Toyos and a bit better than the Hoosier R60 bias slicks. Maybe characterizing the VFF as more forgiving of all the tires being used today is a better characterization, which is a good attribute for amateur racing.
A really interesting data point is the winner of both Sat and Sun Main, ran 29 heat cycle tires on Sat and new on Sunday and the lap times were comparative. The wind at Willow is crazy and impacts lap time, so "comparative" is only possible.
VARA FF rules dictate Hoosier VFF tires and Avon. Most everyone runs Hoosier VFF except for one.
VFF and Bias R60 are now legal options in SCCA
And they are now legal in SCCA majors - so everyone that loves FF and loves the VFF or the Bias R60 - We heard you!
Formula F USA pushed to make the tire legal. SCCA strongly supported our push to legalize the VFF and the Bias R60. Now we all need to show up on our preferred tire. It is up to FF drivers to follow through by actually showing up.
I for one am looking at adding a mid 80's car to the stable for a little variety.
A new era of "all inclusive FF" is here. RaceDog is pulling for FF Festival events welcoming all comers.
