"(dry sumps used larger fittings)" IMO, this would be a major reason to run a dry sump system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Conrad
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"(dry sumps used larger fittings)" IMO, this would be a major reason to run a dry sump system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Conrad
I ordered a Setrab oil cooler from BAT. PN A50F225, $420. *
http://64.202.180.37/files/setrab$.pdf
I'll share pictures of the installation & ducting when done.
Mark, another cooler in the back of the car is an option if my other changes aren't enough.
Russ
* Sometimes I wonder if my life would be better if I took my wife out for a night and spent $400 on her ... :-).
I heard another dry sump benefit recently. Oil stored in a remote tank is not heated like oil sitting inside the bottom of a hot engine. That hadn't really dawned on me before. Gotta be pretty hot in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by formulasuper
It would, but only for an hour or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by RussMcB
:D
.
Hey Russ,
I followed your lead on the Earls. Going to cancel that order and get this one. We think we can fit it in front of the rad. The price was right for a double pass cooler. We shall see.
http://www.prcracing.com/oil-coolers.html
In regards to the dry sump systems....
I was very convinced that in the long run a dry sump system was the way to go...and it is....one way to go.
We sourced these systems in the UK and with the price of materials, falling dollar, and cost of shipping....particulary overseas...the systems just got out of hand price-wise.
We have now run several races and test sessions using the popular baffled and trap-door pan now being widely used. It has worked flawlessly and we have never seen an oil pressure drop at revs since using the system. We use custom -8 fittings that mount to the block and -8 fittings on the oil cooler. We use a 20W-50 4-Stroke Motorcycle Oil. Oil temps have never been above 270 degrees, even when running with ambient temps at 100 and track temps at 140....last Friday.
Matt Conrad
Phoenix Race Works, LLC
I am amazed and impressed that the baffle design works so well. I never would have thought it could be as good as a dry sump, but they must've gotten it dead nuts right. A lot of people are running it successfully. And there's a lot to say for its simplicity ...
Matt,
Do you sell those custom -8 for the block?
Looking forward to racing with you, Richard and possibly Hector and Jose this Sept.
This sure has been a very helpful thread Russ.
Ed
Ed,
We do have those in stock. They are $60/pair. PM me or call me at 602-799-1922 if you need them.
Matt Conrad
Phoenix Race Works, LLC
Deleted....wrong thread.
Matt Conrad
Phoenix Race Works, LLC
Anyone care to comment on what looks like an oil cooler mounted on the left side of the Piper outside the bodywork? Maybe someone at the Sprints knows the full story. Looks like they need some additional cooling because that appreas to be much bigger than the original one mounted on the diffuser.
http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/show...t=28114&page=2
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidney
Justin said here that they needed additional cooling and so Don put one on the diffuser:
http://apexspeed.com/forums/showpost...1&postcount=43
Don has told us that he is still looking for the best way to mount this, but for now he is willing to accept a little additional drag in order to protect the engine.
I believe that the engine problem they were having at the sprints was electrical and not an internal problem.
Quote:
I believe that the engine problem they were having at the sprints was electrical and not an internal problem.
I heard that they had a fuel pressure regulator die, and the fuel pressure fluctuations had the engine running poorly.
Just wondering if anyone knew which oils stand up best to heat.
I found an interesting web site article (http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf), but since it was sponsored by Amsoil, I wasn't sure if it was completely truthful. Amsoil scored at or near the top for most tests.
Here is a similiar test done by Sportsrider. Looks like we need to be paying attention to % of weight loss (amoung other things). No clear-cut winners, but Mobile1 looks good in both tests. I've been running Motorex PowerSyn 4T, which did well in the weight loss test but at $60 a gallon is just too much $$. I also think one of the keys for us is frequently changing the oil as clutch material can clog the oil filter reducing flow. When I lost the motor last year I did not have an oil temp guage so had no idea what was happening there, and did not change the oil for 4 events. It will be dumped after each event going forward.
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0310_oil/index.html
and while I'm here....
these are the changes I've made to hopefully make the cooling system work better.
In the right pod is the new C&R radiator. The fan pulls air through it and into the small oil cooler before traveling over to the large Setrab in the left pod. Fan has its own switch as I suspect it will only be effective on cool-down & pace laps plus in the grid. The water also will go from the C&R over to the left side VD radiator. I've blocked off the engine compartment a bit on the left side like Mike did on Coop's car. Lastly, the gaps are completely filled- only air traveling through both the oil cooler and radiator can exit.
The front of the engine has heat protection material on it- this should help keep header heat away as well as containing some of the oil in the event of a failure.
The headers are now coated with ceramic coating and a thermal primer inside and out.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...9/P1030367.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...9/P1030368.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...9/P1030370.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...9/P1030371.jpg
The new cooler we ordered will fit in front of the rad without modifying the air duct cover on the Tatuus. This was a concern, as we assumed we would have to modify the duct to make it work. Testing in late August should tell us if this is enough.
Sean, et al;
Check this out. Audette Racing in Canada sells them for VDs. It's a way to enhance cooling at the rear of the narrow VD sidepods.
Thanks Mike. I've contacted Audette for prices/ details. They are 1st going to review the data to see what sort of effect they had.
Didn't realize the zetec's were also having cooling issues....
That's a pretty interesting way to get air out of the sidepod. Kinda like the rear facing chimneys. I did a little Google searching for chimneys offered for sale but no hits. Maybe Stohr or Phoenix have them? Sprecher says they are simple to make, but he stopped short of offering to make a couple for me.
It's hard to tell from the pics, is the wing attached at the front of the chimney? If it is, the chimney itself negates any effect the wing might have on pulling air out of the chimney.
A chimney would be simple to make. Designing a proper one and mounting it in the right spot is the challenge.
One part of my multifaceted approach to improve the cooling on my RF-94 conversion was to adapt Mike Devins' larger sidepod opening. Mike's piece is made to fit the later VD sidepods, so they didn't mate perfectly to my sidepod's curves. Even so, I really liked the idea of opening up the small openings so I decided to make it work. It's not pretty, but seems to provide a significantly larger opening.
I'll probably try to get Mike to make some pieces for the RF95 sidepods this winter. If he does, I think that will be the way to go for early 90's conversions.
These pictures were taken midway in the project. After the patches were finished I made everything gloss black and should look OK at 150 MPH. :-).
It's a cold winter night in Atlanta, GA so I thought I'd pull up some AIM data from the Barber Motorsports Park Race this past summer.
It was pretty hot in Alabama that weekend (ambient 95 degrees?).
My max oil temps were:
- 265 degrees before the cooler
- 233 degrees after the cooler.
I thought I'd post those numbers and see if people thought those were okay, or if I need to continue improving my oil cooling.
Thanks for any thoughts.
BTW, my max water temps were around 203 degrees.
Russ
Based on what I know from my engine building days, what I've learned in my recent testing in my own FB at Willow Springs Raceway, and taking in all the posts on Apexspeed I would say YOU ARE GOLDEN.
Forgot to mention we've been picking George Deans brain on this also...your numbers are perfect in his book.
Regards
Gary Hickman
and Golden. Temps ain't your problem anymore!
Time to just pony up and get a fresh, low mileage, known good engine in that thing. Just admit it Russ, you'll never be able to out-cheap Formula Super.
Only then will you be able to move on!
My advice? Take 3 of these (:greenflag:) on race day, and if you've not had any
of these (:revs:) during the race, and ya didn't receive one of these (:blackflag:) at some point of the weekend, and you had no more than 7 of these (:beer:) at the party sat night, I can damn near promise a guy of your caliber will see more of these (:checkered:), and more than likely some of these (:trophy_bronze:), and I'd bet some of these (:trophy_silver:) as well. Can this (:trophy:) be far behind?
GC
were deluxe on raceday (75 ambient) - about 180 water, and 190 oil.
The latest oil cooling mods from temps at June Sprints were the Kropp Drysump system, and the C and R Racing VD water rad sized and shaped oil cooler.
On Sunday morn Q, prob about 45 degrees ambient, I had a 2" strip of tape across the water inlet sidepod opening, and on the oil cooler pod inlet, all but a 2" strip was taped up solid to get to similar operating temps.
GC
Thanks, Gary (& Glenn). Very encouraging.Quote:
Originally Posted by ghickman
I *think* my car as a whole is in pretty good shape now. All of the systems seem to be sorted. I just need to get a reliable engine in it. We (Roger @ MSP Cycles in ATL & I) have a plan, so maybe I can start enjoying driving again in 2009, and try to get me and the car up to speed.
We are working on a cooling kit & and oil kit (complete dry sump) that is based on the development work that we have done with Glenn.
More info later.
Thanks ... Jay