And now a $1000 wiring harness ! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by J Leonard
They sure made it a point to spend my money last year. Wonder why I'm missing the SuperTour this weekend? :confused:
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And now a $1000 wiring harness ! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by J Leonard
They sure made it a point to spend my money last year. Wonder why I'm missing the SuperTour this weekend? :confused:
Damn, that’s really disappointing, but rumored.
Doesn’t help newbies, that’s for sure.
Per the GCR, we just need an approved rain light. No mention of having to use a specific flashing/steady mode. IMO, having to remember which mode to use when might be hard to do in the heat of the moment, and if you got it wrong would create confusion. I set mine up to be flashing.
:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
I'll be setting mine up to be flashing, since that's what the few who've actually wanted this seem to point to have a big hard-on about...
(Trying desperately to avoid throwing shade about service intervals on the OEM Mk1 Eyeball equipped on the above-noted observation platforms... still gotta share the track and all... ;) )
Maybe wire them up with the FT200. Let someone else take charge.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
This makes the most sense to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by J Leonard
I'm confused. I wired an On-Off-On switch for a few dollars. I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't wire it to have both solid and flashing modes available. Maybe I had more room in my FM dash than other's cars?Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing
There are 3 leads on these lights. Solid, flashing and ground. The choice is made at the dash, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by RussMcB
I have a 2001 VD and the chassis harness is all wrapped and sealed.
It's an additional wire from the dash to the light that isn't currently in the harness.
Similar with my Citation - I would need another wire from dash to light. Not a huge issue, just a bit inconvenient.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing
Just had a random thought: Will Sports Racers have to add the flashing rain light in addition to their already required brake lights?
In weak theory they could wire the CARTEK to turn solid when the brakes are applied and to flash when the rain light switch is turned on...
Hi SteveQuote:
Originally Posted by Steve Demeter
That is how my P2 was wired, rain light and then Brake Light BUT i was told just a few months ago that Brake lights are now not required in Sports Racers any longer and there is nothing in the GCR that states Sports Racer need to have a Brake Light?
in our vintage group, formula cars need brake lights. I wired mine up exactly as you indicatedQuote:
Originally Posted by Steve Demeter
Yeah, sports racers haven't required brake lights since we wrote the rulebook for P1 and P2. Let's see, that would be maybe 2014 or so?Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Demeter
I mean, what's the point, when no-one else in the run group has brake lights???
Every now and then I have this discussion with the brains in the tech shed; always fun to be able to point out how they're enforcing a rulebook they haven't read in the last 10 years or so...
Installed my FIA (Cartek) light yesterday... hours of fab on a new bracket and wiring, and it's no more bright than the $20 light it replaces. But it flashes, so it's got that going for it... :rolleyes:
Even though the brake lights haven't been required on P1/P2 cars for a while, I still had them on mine (separate lights). Now, with the Cartek, the wires were already there and both functions are in one assembly. Why? Because I still like having my ass "covered" if someone closing on me isn't paying attention. Costs nothing more, so why not?Quote:
Originally Posted by 924RACR
Dave
If you still have the wiring and switch, sure...
Last year the tech assigned to me spent a few minutes looking for the brake lights on my FC. He was clearly new.Quote:
Originally Posted by 924RACR
When he saw the rain light he said - "Just 1 brake light?"
So I explained we did not have them. He took my word for it.
I find this sort of thing to be common. We need them. So I'm patient. I don't want them to think the group is arrogant.
Yeah, I pitch the tone of my response to match theirs. Sometimes it's merely an educational opportunity to open the GCR and give it a proper look.
Sometimes a little ego shows up to the party and it gets more entertaining. Always fun when one was in the committee that actually wrote the rules being referenced... :ha:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing
Sorry, I made an assumption I should not have. I just happened to be rewiring my car when this rain light thing started, so I ran three wires from the light to the dash.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
You anticipated change - good. But that added weight! tsk-tsk ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by RussMcB
Hello
Has anyone tried to hookup the required Lifeline rain light so that it has a brake light and the flashing rain light?
I have because at one time the P2 required a Brake light also.
3- wires
Black ground
Red 12 volt from brake switch
Green 12-volt toggle but will not work?
any ideas?
So the brake lights up 3 center lights on braking?
Nothing working on flashing lights
Dave
No mention of brake light function in the installation instructions. Red and green both need power for flash, solid is power to red only.
Well after realizing that this rule was kinda slipped in without us knowing, I did contact my area BOD member and he said that no one objected to it so it just went thorough. He recommended I contact the BOD thorough the national office.
So I did and the lady who returned my email sent me to someone who I replied to. I don't remember who but I am guessing the head of the board. He amazingly responded quickly which started a back and forth. After explaining to him the requirement for an FIA approved light would just increase the cost but provide no benefit over even a auto parts store light for maybe $20 and my latest Afterburner light I have on my first car.
What I thought would be a good reasonable discussion turned into well you didn't object before so to bad. And when he said tech was over whelmed and couldn't possible look at a light to see if it works and is bright but I guess checking for a cert would be okay. I told him that this kinda BS would just cause me to stop racing.
Hold on, it gets better. He said that I should stay a member and that with my experience I should come out and help tech. Yeah, right.
So after I fix the minor damage from a wheel banger at my last race, if I don't try track days my car will go up for sale.
That is really impressive that the club which I am guess is having trouble with retaining members and racers, just doesn't care about us. So lets drive away our 47 year member because they can.
Ed
Welcome to last year, Ed. Literally. This thread was started on page 1, by Jeff, on 5/19/23. You are now on page 19 of many ApexSpeed members complaining and writing letters through the end of last year, trying to get this dropped.
So maybe it's more accurate to say that, rather than this being "slipped in without us knowing" it was more like "jammed down our throats against extreme protest and without lube."
But safe to say that ship has sailed...
EDIT: I'm a bit confused, you were the third person, right after me, to reply - did you lose sight of this issue? Did you not write a letter to SCCA last year?
Also, feel free to refer your clueless (or lying) BOD member to the many letters we have submitted over the past months to try to fight this. Virtually every FasTrack from June 2023 to Jan 2024 has letters on this.
If he or she can't be bothered to keep track of what's going on in the rules department, you have to ask yourself just what benefit they are providing you, how exactly are they looking out for your interests?
I know mine (Dayle Frame) could care less about this, but obviously that opinion is shared by the entire BOD; they seem to mainly just wish formula cars and prototypes would just go away to make room for more Mazdas and Enterprises cars.
At Blackhawk last weekend maybe 60% of the cars had FIA lights. My rain light was not checked at all during my annual. They did check it for function after Sunday's race, but when asked if they were checking for FIA lights they had no idea what we were talking about. Not trying to beat the dead horse even more on this topic, just reporting my experience.
The FF/FV/F6 race had a deluge on Saturday. My friend's car has a Lifeline light with the plastic cover and I noticed it had filled with moisture. For those of you still needing to buy one, I don't see any reason to spend $50 more for a worse product.
Dave,Quote:
Originally Posted by david oleary
It looks like Lifeline doesn't offer wiring for a brake switch but I would imagine you could try the Cartek diagram and simply wire it as a static light and run the 12v wire to your brake switch. I know you know this but P2 doesn't require a brake light so I personally would not overcomplicate the installation and add a potential failure point.
One of the FCs actually had an incandescent rain light. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by rockbeau25
Mine was checked during my annual...
I'm sure there's gonna be at least one race where Tech will run around and demand to look at stickers on rain lights... :meatball:
I bought the silly light. But to see the sticker on the back of the light I will have to bring extra tools with me to tech to remove the light and mount.
I may join the other Ed and leave SCCA. Seems every year there is another $200 required item on the car.
Ed
I made my mount so the hologram and some of the FIA sticker can be viewed without any removal. I am operating under the assumption that a tech person can see this much of sticker, plus see the thing in operation and be satisfied. This year getting tech was not an issue.
https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/att...d=111182&stc=1https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/att...d=111183&stc=1
wiring
There is no need to see the cert. There are only a couple of lights sold in USA that have the cert. If you have one of those two there no need for tech to do anything more than a casual visual observation.Quote:
Originally Posted by 924RACR
Brian
I just took a picture of the light and the certificate and stapled it in my log book.Quote:
Originally Posted by EACIII
If they have an issue just give them a pair of eclipse glasses
https://www.facebook.com/groups/form...2331032758115/
ChrisZ
Hello all
If you are using the Lifeline light it requires a separate toggle switch on the red wire to supply 12 volts to the light and then another toggle switch on the on the green wire to make it flash, i was trying to get the red wire to work the brake light but then the light would not work and if you so if you put 12 volts to the green wire without the red wire sending 12 volts to the assembly it will not work either.
So it flashes now with 2 toggle switches. Red makes it light and green makes it flash.
Dave
I asked if the rules makers consider cost when making a new rule - I was assured they do. (????)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Womer
I asked if this was driven by insurance - I was told it was not. (????)
It was requested by a P1 or P2 driver, and since in parts of the country we might be forced to run with Atlantics and the like, the rule is one size fits all.
I missed the first announcement - or else I would have been all over it. Jeff posted it (from a friend) and the members of this forum jumped on it and there were more letters written than I can remember over any topic.
But we were a month late....:checkered:
Then - for some reason not disclosed, the BOD did not follow the rules procedure.
This is a perfect example of, no matter how bad it is, it can always be made worse.
But fool me once shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me.
We used to get Fastrack mailed to us.
Then they sent emails.
Then they stopped.
They seem to be trying again to send out notifications.
If you get an email from kspeed@scca.com
Go to the bottom - If you see a number next to the Road Race trophy - click on it immediately - do not pass go.
https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/att...d=111189&stc=1
Of put a reminder in your calendar to check the following page once a month.
https://www.scca.com/pages/cars-and-rules
ChrisZ
See post 729, one double pole switch does the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by david oleary
Ed, If you are not happy about the rain light just wait til the flagtronics becomes mandatory. I think there is still time tot object to that oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Ed Womer
I was also at that event ... and in that GROUP with the deluge.. Interestingly, *I* found it almost impossible to SEE .. anything at ALL.. in the wake of cars with BRILLIANTLY FLASHING - VERY BRIGHT RAIN LIGHTS!! The rain drops on my visor (both inside and outside) reflected all kinds of kaleidoscope rainbows VERY BRIGHTLY into my eyes. It was REALLY REALLY HARD to see 'through' all that light just to find the edges of the racetrack. The occasional car that I saw that did NOT have 'the all powerful' rain light was MUCH easier to drive behind.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockbeau25
I have to say, I never anticipated a situation like that.. where BRIGHTNESS of the rain light ahead was actually contributing to the LACK of my ability to SEE THE TRACK! Of course.. that was also the HARDEST RAINFALL I can recall ever being in on track in my 45+ years of racing. It was like driving at the bottom of a swimming pool... upside down.... - Thankfully, they flagged it after only 4 laps... and then left us sitting on pit lane .. in the pouring rain.. for another 10 minutes before someone remembered that all the workers had been called in at the first lightning strike...and all the OPEN WHEEL drivers were still sitting on pit lane...drowning... WOW! Then there were the 6 - 10 inch deep puddles to drive through to get back to paddock.
Steve, FV80
There are many things in life that have associated danger. There certainly are elements in our racing. But doing it, and doing it very well, is what makes it fun and so satisfying. We have come so far since the 60s and 70s, that the risks are so minimal, that we need those people that keep forcing racers to spend their money on unnecessary safety items instead of entry fees, tires, etc, to take their chill pills and let racers enjoy the racing.
So true... Tell that to the (ambulance chasing) LAWYERS that have led us to this place :mad:. (WHY.. all those years ago.. did we decide to ALLOW them to ADVERTISE ON TV!? )Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild
ALL the organizers of almost EVERYTHING that is enjoyable are, I'm sure, STAGGERED by what our judicial system can DO to them if something untoward should happen. And the insurance companies are right behind the lawyers .. but they HAVE to be for CYA reasons.
It's obvious that SIMULATED 'stimulation' (remember TOTAL RECALL?) is right around the corner .. if not already here in stupid GUN GAMES that teaches children how to PULL TRIGGERS. (We don't need to get started about that on this forum.)
Steve
see title
Hey, now! I resemble that comment! :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Davis
See you in Wisconsin, Steve!
-Quinn
I was reading through the rule book and it looks like they have updated the list of acceptable rain lights.
A red rain light meeting FIA Standard 8874-2019, Technical List No. 76, is required on all Formula(open wheel) and Sports Racing cars. This light must be mounted approximately on the centerlineof the car. Cars competing in classes other than Formula and Sports Racing classes may use eithera rain light meeting FIA Standard 8874-2019, Technical List No. 76, or a Super Bright LEDs Inc.P/N PT-STRB-R24 rain light if desired. The rain light may strobe only on Formula and Sports Racing cars.
So, after quickly adding this rule and forcing everyone to spend over $200 for an FIA light they finally decided a $22 trailer light is actually good enough. Nice to see all the letters written in suggesting this very solution of non +$200 option would work back when they proposed this finally gained some traction after we all spent our money. Racers are made of money, though, so no harm done, i guess
https://www.superbrightleds.com/vehi...-24v+color-Red
LED Strobe Light for Trucks and Trailers - 6" Oval - 24 LEDs - Red - 12V / 24V
Part Number:PT-STRB-R24
$21.99ea.
So now a simple, standard LED light is acceptable. That's "wonderful"...EXCEPT...once again, Formula & Sports Racers are still singled out to be screwed...Quote:
Originally Posted by jemartin144
Glenn
Maybe they’ll change their minds on Flagtronic too now that you’ve spent your money.
Nowhere do I see that Formula or Sports Racers may use the less expensive light...only classes other than these.Quote:
Originally Posted by jemartin144
However, not to diminish the cost issue to F & SR classes, but there IS some logic to this - the lack of windshield wipers and large amount of spray with open wheels or similar.
They're literally just rubbing it in our faces at this point. For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone is making an effort to try to get our numbers up in the SCCA.
Because they have the rules, administration, licensing and insurance infrastructure that few organizations have. Being the biggest has issues, but also some benefits. Almost all other organizations have some tie with the SCCA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbitrary
ChrisZ
on the other hand, every vintage organization has the same. They're more like regionals, and only race in a few places within their geographic areas. But they recognize other licenses, so you can pretty much race where you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by FVRacer21
What the SCCA has is the Runoffs. Spending national championship dollars not in your budget, no reason to go with the SCCA.
SVRA was approaching a national vintage organization, but got distracted with all these dead pro classes, and their admin is looking more and more like the SCCA.
"The first race to be organized by IMSA was a Formula Vee and Formula Ford event at Pocono Raceway in October 1969." WikipediaQuote:
Originally Posted by Rick Kirchner
When you get big you sometimes forget the people who got you started. If you are being treated extra special, enjoy it, as it may not last.
ChrisZ
SVRA had more FF's at their national championship race at COTA this past weekend than the Runoffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Kirchner
As I posted elsewhere, there are 24 FV's signed up for this upcoming weekends Road Atlanta DriverZ (radial tires) race!
A very good turnout and I bet 2025' will see several weekends with a higher car turnout than what the 25' Runoff's will produce, either via Challenge Cup, DriverZ or the New England Region but it most likely will occur.
Mark
FV #3