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Actually, I included view angle in determining the mounting position. Most of the light is visible at a 30-degree angle to either side and at least half of it at more than a 45-degree angle. It's not as far back inside the body as it looks, only ~2.5". View from 30-degrees to left below. Beyond 30 degrees, the light intensity falls off rapidly, so more viewing angle is not very useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B
Look for a revision of the rule. Part of the FIA spec is view angle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B
If we put a tinted lens over it would it still comply?
I suspect we'll get a revised rule stating it has to be within a certain distance of the last structure or axle or something.
I could have mounted mine more rearward, but any of those locations that were practical would have had the light far less visible to a following driver than where I put it. Having it up higher makes it much more visible than where I had my previous one, down below the support wing. There were a very limited # of locations that were not in danger of the light being destroyed with minor off's or contact and still met the intent of the GCR mounting rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing
This thread is such a reflection on SCCA in the year 2024.
All we need now is some TikTok action and a You Tube channel to help us with the installation.:)
Some days I am thankful that I am not a young person having to deal with 2 wars and a FIA rain light installation.
I know, I'm just a stupid noob in a crappy class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardingfv32
Hey, how about I treat you the same as you treat me?
Thanks for that, Captain Obvious! You're about as easy to digest as battery acid. Your need to be the smartest guy in the room is exhausting.
So I get that folks may be upset about the way the rule was Instituted and having to possibly fabricate a mount but the cost aspect holds no water for me.
The approved light is $175 which is nothing compared to what we spend in a single weekend.
I do this cheaper than 90% of people; I'm spending $4500-$5000 a season. I'm spending between $900 for local races and $1200-$1400 per weekend for out of town events. This my all in costs; including amortizing the cost of tires, fuel and even the registration for my tow vehicle.
Note I'm racing a $6700 Formula 500.
Simple math shows us that the light is 19.5% of a $900 weekend, and 15.5% of a $1200 weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Grossmann
As suggested by several people already, this situation seems to require a buddy system. Everyone who considers this an insignificant expense should buy two and give one to a fellow racer who considers it a significant expense. For aspiring buddies out there, I will need four.
This buddy system would solve all our problems and save OW club racing. ;)
If this is truly an insignificant cost, there will be no objections. Perhaps we could develop a similar buddy system for the FT cash grab.
Can we extend the buddy system to tires? And entry fees? I'll stop short of suggesting it for hotel rooms... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by problemchild
"SCCA Runoffs Appearance Fund".Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B
Now you are just being silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B
But I am sure people would remove the "insignificant cost" label if they also had to buy one for their buddy. Or perhaps they would remove the "significant safety issue" label. If someone believes both labels are valid, then they should have no trouble opening up their wallets to help make it happen. After all, remember that SCCA is a club!
Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild
Look on the bright side. I recall some time back, your lamenting that you had not made the 500th post in this thread. On present rates, the 1000th post will land just about exactly on Christmas Day.
Stand by your keyboard! :D
The SCCA already did that for us when they drew an arbitrary line in the sand for which classes need it and which can use $20 trailer lights.Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild
I admire your restraint .. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B
Simple common sense reminds us that a rain light is not a per weekend cost, aka a consumable. The person your simple math is based on is spending $5,000 a season and it is certainly reasonable to expect this to last 5 years at minimum (though I expect MUCH longer). Therefore, the cost of this rain light is approximately 0.7% of the cost of racing for 5 years. This is literally a rounding error and I cannot even believe this has gone on for this many pages.Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild
-Mark
"The approved light is $175 which is nothing compared to what we spend in a single weekend."Quote:
Originally Posted by lowside67
I did not establish the context for his comment. Tom did.
Much better to resolve this important issue than be wasting time discussing how to keep OW racing alive, reforming SCCA, reducing costs, or actually making the racing safer. And Peter assured us that SCCA race operations does a perfect job, so no need to discuss ways to improve that department.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Nesbitt
That is a silly interpretation. The first weekend you go out with it, it will cost you +15.5%. The second weekend, it will cost you 0%. Third weekend, 0%. Tenth weekend, 0%. What's the point of making this "analysis?"Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild
Here's another way to analyze this - as a % of your initial asking price of $75,000 for your Mygale Formula Ford, this rain light upgrade will cost 0.2% of the car's purchase price. As a % of your reduced asking price after 6 months, it is 0.3%. As a % of your further reduced price after 9 months, it's 0.31%. After 10 months for sale, it's 0.32%. After 11 months for sale at $50,000 it's now 0.35%.
Ironically a much more accurate way to measure it, but equally silly.
-Mark
I believe that was my point. Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by lowside67
I think somebody should take this thread from silly back to stupid ;)
Greg, I agree. We have squeezed all the juice out of this topic. The rain lights appear to be a done deal. Maybe time to move on to more productive topics, as you suggest.Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild
The 1000th post will land just about exactly on Christmas Day.
Maybe whoever makes the 1000th post should get a free light.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Nesbitt
Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Leonard
Let's make this a sporting proposition. If the 1000th post (i.e. 999th reply) lands on Christmas Day (Eastern Time), I shall buy the poster an FIA rain light, including delivery in the Lower 48.
Have at it, boys! :greenflag:
673
I stopped reading this thread long ago......just go out and buy one....by now as this thread has gone along I figure the average reader of this thread has spent more on beer than the cost of a new rain light.
Sorry but it is a small cost. The estimated life of an FIA ran light is something like 30,000 to 35,000 hours. It will last the life of the car.
In 1990 I was towing a $2000 Formula Vee ($4700 today) with a 8 year old mini pickup. I was spending about $800-$1000 ($1900-$2300 today) to do 4 regionals a year. The rain light would represent about $80 back then. Even with my limited budget I could have swung it given it would be a one time purchase.
Do note I get the rule being / feeling arbitrary.
Somehow the beer feels like a better investment... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by EYERACE
I enjoy the beer!Quote:
Originally Posted by EYERACE
I find Guinness to be a particularly good investment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Womer
:beer:
:beer:For less than the cost of the rain light, I can buy a sixtel keg of an excellent local IPA. While the rain light will last longer*, my friends and I will enjoy the beer much much more.:beer:
Steve
* I don't own rain tires and I no longer race in the rain but I do need a brake light. And I'm just trying to help the thread post count.;)
Final stage of grief now fully realized by nearly all involved: Denial->Anger->Bargaining->Depression->Acceptance.
That being said, I did vote to oust my BoD representative and here's why:
- The implementation of this has shined a light on the process for rule changes is flawed.
- After the decision was made in secret without the knowledge or input from the club members affected, it was posted in Fastrack and there was no recognition of alternative viewpoints.
- From my perspective, the CRB and BoD dug their heels in on that decision, even though plenty of us showed how flawed it was.
- The President of SCCA Enterprises acted on his own--presumably acting on behalf of all SRF3 and FE2 owners and drivers--and went so far as to write letters to change their class rules AFTER we began objecting and pointing out the flaws.
- My BoD representative has not shown that he recognizes any of the above; that's a problem for me.
I'm not at grief stage 5 of acceptance. I went from 1->2->3 and now back to 2.
so did I
Mike, are you saying that there are only TWO approved rain lights available in the US?
Several are shown by their seller as being FIA 2019 approved???
I know of at least 2 people that have purchased Cat Tek lights and the documentation states that they meet the 2019 FIA requirements and they have the FIA Hologram on them.
Am I missing something
Here is the list: https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...74-2019_11.pdfQuote:
Originally Posted by Steve Demeter
I was only able to find two lights from the list that would be appropriate to mount near the centerline of a formula car that are readily available in the US: Lifeline and Cartek. Next Solutions P089 rain light looks appropriate but I can't find a retailer for it. Maybe your google skills are better than mine so please post here if you find something.
Google searches indicate that Cartek has a rectangular and a round version, plus static (constant-on) and switchable flashing-static versions, IIRC. My round Cartek (Pegasus) is a switchable static-flashing unit (3 wires - flashing, static, & ground).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B
I have a Trueflex LED strip light 10'' long and .375'' wide with 75 red LED bulbs mounted vertically on the fairing of my rear wing. It's brighter than the LEDs on the F1 cars and has more visible coverage from behind....
FGM
I'll bet it's much less expensive, too. Unfortunately, not legal in SCCA in 2024.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fast2stop
A 75 led Trueflex will draw 375 ma compared to a the FIA rain light draw of 700 ma. The Trueflex is not brighter than the FIA spec rain light.
Brian
Dave, I have the same thing. How did you wire yours, flashing only, static only or both powered when you turn the switch on?Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
By the way that thing is beyond comprehension bright
Flashing. See post 648. Link:
https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/sho...l=1#post657884
I recently installed the Cartek round FIA light and used this On-Off-On switch to have the option of solid on or flashing:Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Demeter
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRF-80532
As mentioned earlier, I never considered flashing was needed, but I recently saw a flashing light on a disabled, unmoving car on Daytona banking apron, and thought it was helpful.
Back in October, I issued the following challenge:
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Nesbitt
Xmas has come and gone, and the message count never got to 1000. Therefore, I declare that we do not have a winner.
In lieu of awarding an FIA rain light, I have donated an equivalent sum to Apexspeed.
I invite my fellow Apex'ers to make a donation in support of this wonderful community.
If anyone would like I can add some posts :mad::ha:
https://clip.cafe/shakespeare-in-lov...-too-late-s10/Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Demeter
Lol!!!
I have now received my Cartek rain light.
As expected, and like most SCCA interactions, It was an underwhelming experience.
:thumbsdown:
You must've gotten it from the wrong place.. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by problemchild
For all that money, you would think they would include a wiring schematic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild
That's strange. All the Cartek lights I have on-hand include a one-page schematic. There wasn't one in the box?
I find it odd that the SCCA did not follow British MSA rules and require the light be operable in both constant and flashing. I believe MSA rules have it on constant in rain, flashing behind pace car and if disabled on track or moving well below race speed. Get out those three position switches.Quote:
Originally Posted by RussMcB