FIA-approved rain lights required starting 1/1/2024

When I received my light last week I started thinking about how to mount it, how visible it needs to be.
My current rain light is buried between the wing mounts. On other cars they have it sticking back further so the rain light mount is visible from the sides and not buried.

So I came up with the idea of making a 'structure' to mount between the wing mounts and hold the light back. Here's what I came up with - it's still not finished.
The yellow part I call the bezel and the blue part I call the mount.
Attachment 107999
Attachment 108000
Attachment 108001

The idea is the mount (blue) can be extended or otherwise redesigned for different ways of mounting and wiring.
The bezel will attach to the mount using 4 (maybe just 2) screws (10/32) (2 on each side) on the side of the mount and into inserts in the bezel. (That's the black dots on the last picture)

My 'biggest' concern is the radiant heat from exhaust in the area but I suspect printing in PETG would work - otherwise ABS.

My plan it to print the mount in black and the bezel in a neon green to outline / highlight our investment :rolleyes:

Feedback appreciated. I'd be happy to share either STL files or source in FreeCad.

Thanks for the comparison video, Steve, that helps the discussion a lot.

Doesn't end it, but helps to have the solid side-by-side comparisons.

Half-tempted to send you one of the type I have, the $20 LED truck light, to add to the comparison (more for brightness level, of course - blinker not included)...

Edit - of course, for all comparisons, I expect there is unfortunately a factor of the camera eye having different sensitivities to the light source vs. the human eye. Perhaps someone in the field can speak to that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing

So I came up with the idea of making a 'structure' to mount between the wing mounts and hold the light back. Here's what I came up with - it's still not finished.

---

How difficult will this be to disassemble in Tech to prove it's compliant?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike B

How difficult will this be to disassemble in Tech to prove it's compliant?

---

4 (or 2) screws on the sides to remove the 'bezel' from the mounting box. I would have a wire plug inside there.
Then the bezel and light comes off.
Then 2 mounting bolts to completely remove the light from the bezel.

My initial though was to mount it between the wing mounts buried like before and then I thought what a PITA it'll be to unbolt it for tech.

Idea: A window through to the sticker ? Would be interesting if the sticker position is consistent.

But then I'd have to cut the padding they provide, etc.

Attachment 108002

Is the lifeline sticker in a similar place?

Not gonna buy one for my car just yet. Since FE2 is spec, but the rain light is "open" right now in the GCR I'm not gonna risk it. I bet that open loophole closes pretty quickly, though, since someone noted the loophole in this thread and CRB members and at least one board member have been on this thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steve Davis

OK... we've talked (typed) and typed about this for quite a while now. I've been wondering what really IS the difference between the Afterburner (2008 FIA spec) and this newer 2019 FIA spec. Summit Racing sells the Lifeline version (this is the rectangular type), so I bought one to compare it to my Afterburner
https://static.summitracing.com/glob...-011_gv_ml.jpg
Lifeline Fire LED Rain Lights 421-100-011

The first thing I noticed was the WEIGHT - I might be able to take some weight out of my car? :D. Not sure what the weight really is since I didn't weight it on a scale, but it feels like about a POUND or more. When you mount this thing it will have to be attached to something pretty STURDY. Has 2 ~6mm mounting studs and came with lock nuts. I received mine set for VERTICAL mounting (as shown above- about ~2.5 x ~4" but didn't measure it). It has a clear 'face cover' held on with 6 (I think) small locktighted screws and came with another cover that is supposed to be used for horizontal mounting .. with instructions on how to change them. Overall, it's about 2 times larger than my Afterburner and weighs 4 or 5 times more.. or maybe even more than that.

Visibly, the clear covers look identical except the LIFELINE writing is written in the other plane. I'm guessing that it MIGHT be polarized to help direct the light rays.

Anyway, I balanced the new one on top of my Afterburner and took some short videos. I used my car wiring for the Afterburner and a spare 12 volt battery for the LifeLine.

You can see the results at
https://www.wedgeracing.com/RainLigh...ineFIA2019.mp4

The Afterburner flashes at a slightly slower rate, but the Lifeline clearly overpowers it and the LEDs are physically much larger - that explains the additional current draw for sure. I can say that the Lifeline is substantially brighter .. so bright it will BLIND YOU .. so, fair warning :D. The Afterburner just 'hurts my eyes' a bit. So, if you're curious like me, take a gander. I promise the file is virus and spam free.

I couldn't find a trailer 15 watt bulb to compare with :rolleyes:.

The Hungarian GP gave us a great view of what F1 can do with all this new LED power and an infinite wallet. I think the ones on their cars are still 3 times larger than this one. Wonder how much current THEY draw? .. and they have at least THREE of them.

OH.. and turn down the audio. I had the radio on in the back ground and didn't notice that my cell phone was picking that up at quite a high level. And please excuse the messy garage.. it never gets any better that it shows in the video.

---

Drove Friday night practice in the rain at the Le Mans Classic last month and a Lotus 11 had mounted one of these. I had to look off to the side; same as high beams coming at you on a dark road.

That said, it looks like no option but to mount one.

Awesome.

Now people will sue for driving blind. ;)

I was told by a tech person at the Thompson night race that the new spec rain light for 2024 should be a solid light and not flash or blink! Most at the event blinked!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tgaluardi

I was told by a tech person at the Thompson night race that the new spec rain light for 2024 should be a solid light and not flash or blink! Most at the event blinked!

---

Not sure where he got his information from or if he knows something we don't. I already know these are going to be a nightmare at tech next year.

2. (Effective 1/1/2024) A red taillight meeting FIA Standard 8874-2019, Technical List No. 76, is required on all Formula (open wheel) and Sports Racing cars This light shall be mounted approximately on the centerline of the car. Light assemblies are considered one light for the purposes of this rule, irrespective of the number of individual lamps the assembly may contain.

3. Original equipment tail light assemblies may be used. Light assemblies may perform both rain and brake light functions provided they have two distinct illumination levels. Lights that function as strobe lights are not permitted except in Formula and Sports Racer classes. The taillight may strobe when directed to be used as a rain light

Hey, now - Tech is responsible for enforcing the rules, not reading them!!!

If I had a dollar for every time I had to make Tech open the GCR and read it... :ha:

Here's a pic of the FIA label on my new light. You should keep that in mind when mounting it. 'SOME' tech inspectors might actually want to SEE IT :D.
Maybe take a pic on your phone to show at tech? It's likely to be difficult to see when installed on the car.

https://WedgeRacing.com/RainLights2023/FIAidLabel.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steve Davis

Here's a pic of the FIA label on my new light. You should keep that in mind when mounting it. 'SOME' tech inspectors might actually want to SEE IT :D.
Maybe take a pic on your phone to show at tech? It's likely to be difficult to see when installed on the car.

https://WedgeRacing.com/RainLights2023/FIAidLabel.jpg

---

Can you get us a higher-res photo? I'm not sure that one will print out clear enough... ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 924RACR

Can you get us a higher-res photo? I'm not sure that one will print out clear enough... ;)

---

Sure :D.. the problem will be that 'lazer thingie' over the edge. A sticker like your car tag has .. and microshaft places on their ID labels to keep them from being counterfitted...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steve Davis

Sure :D.. the problem will be that 'lazer thingie' over the edge. A sticker like your car tag has .. and microshaft places on their ID labels to keep them from being counterfitted...

---

Back when Microsoft issued paper licenses and shipped physical product they spent more than a few dollars on the holographs and other tech - which I understand they sold to the Treasury Dept.

It's everywhere now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 924RACR

Can you get us a higher-res photo? I'm not sure that one will print out clear enough... ;)

---

I hope you guys are not that dump to think that you can just print a copy of the label. You will also need to make a replica housing.

Tech is not going to need to check for the FIA label. There are only a couple of units sold in the US that have the FIA cert. Tech is going to expect to see one of these two approved light housings. Very simple.

Brian

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hardingfv32

There are only a couple of units sold in the US that have the FIA cert. Tech is going to expect to see one of these two approved light housings. Very simple.

---

Yea, the people who ask me to activate the brake light on my FV are totally going to remember there are only like 3 lights that are FIA 2019 certified & will absolutely be able to tell the nuances between housings between them & any other rectangular LED light.

Has anyone tried one of these FIA rain lights? https://www.peracing.com.au/products...ved-105-x-65mm

They are about $59 US, so with shipping it should still be under $100.

I saw that one as well. But in the ad that I saw there was no mention of the actual 2019 FIA certification nor was there any pictures showing a label of such. No idea how it compares to the one that I ended up buying - despite the fact that it APPEARS to be one of those listed on that List #76 - buyer beware ...(how do you 'prove' it's compliant with the new rule?)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steve Davis

- despite the fact that it APPEARS to be one of those listed on that List #76 - buyer beware

---

I might be missing it but I don't see it on the list.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steve Davis

...(how do you 'prove' it's compliant with the new rule?)

---

It needs to have the FIA 8874-2019 label as shown in post 411.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hardingfv32

I hope you guys are not that dump to think that you can just print a copy of the label. You will also need to make a replica housing.

Tech is not going to need to check for the FIA label. There are only a couple of units sold in the US that have the FIA cert. Tech is going to expect to see one of these two approved light housings. Very simple.

Brian

---

i am totally that dump :D

bt

Wow... 404: Humor not found :debris:

This is a great forum for many reasons, one being its lack of aggression and unwarranted insults. It’s remarkably unique really, in that other forums almost encourage negative drama.

In this case, Bill’s comment was simple payback for constant and repetitive insults from the same guy.

People get tired of being told how dumb they are for having different perspectives, as well they should. We all have limits.

Time for the poor guy on the grid to chime in. I have been working on my car and not really involved with what's going on here, but apparently I should have.

This move is ridiculous and is done to satisfy the emotional lobe usage of an insurance adjuster. All they have to hear are the words "this is safer" and that's it discussion closed. This requirement disgusts me; I now wish for a car that I could take somewhere else.

I have two afterburner lights that are useless to me now because our representatives didn't have the balls to tell insurance people to get bent. This sport and ALL of those involved seem to only be good at driving current participants away and not pulling in any new ones. Whether it be monthly service fees to get your car on timing and scoring or an overpriced, overcurrent, overweight rain light requirement. These new ones have heatsinks people, heatsinks. Yes, this and all other knee jerk requirements are added hurdles that drive people away. This is true for young people and it's true for old people it doesn't really matter. The more unnecessary hurdles put in place the less folks will want to jump over them, period. If you like sub 10 car grids then keep it up.

I have no issue revisiting the global requirements for rain lights, but picking the most recent spec just because "it's safer" is a cowards way out. By the way, just because a product meets a certain spec does not mean it is used with in the proper operating voltage or that the current can be supplied. Unless you have a way to check for performance either at annual or race weekend you've done nothing other than satisfy an ignorant insurance adjuster.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by toolo4sno

This requirement disgusts me; I now wish for a car that I could take somewhere else.

---

What do you have? I doubt SCCA is your only option.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TimH

What do you have? I doubt SCCA is your only option.

---

It's an FE/FE2. And as others have pointed out, it's not entirely clear whether this rule applies. The FCS should supercede the GCR, and the FE/FE2 spec says "any" rain light.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TimH

What do you have? I doubt SCCA is your only option.

---

Yep, an FE2 here. Perhaps this requirement is still too new for me and I'm in my cranky stage. I just can't figure out how the Afterburner model or the spec it's made to are insufficient for cost conscious amateur racing. It's a light unit yet sturdy enough to handle abuse externally mounted on an open wheel racecar. It kicks out a lot of lumens, but isn't a drain on a light duty alternator system. If I remember correctly it can be wired to braking systems as well for further expandability. It is plastic, LEDs, wiring and epoxy. Pretty basic. Not as though the new ones are rocket science, but they sure look big and clunky. If your unit requires a heat sink to function that is one more failure point in a heavy vibration environment. The argument I make here is keep it simple.

Anyway, I have ranted yet nothing will change. I haven't really felt that I have had a say in how the FE class moves forward; so this is not a surprise extension of that. I can't think of a hobby that requires more time and money to maintain just mid level involvement. It just happens to be the awesomest hobby ever, but let's not be in a rush to add more of either time or $ requirements. At some point the years of neglecting my family to race will hit me and I will realize I made the wrong choice.

In the end this is a $200-250 part that I can afford and am fully capable of installing on my racecar. I believe it to be a very wasteful requirement that will also create a rush in mid March for these parts as the word spreads out to those out of the loop more than me. I also didn't need another project this winter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by toolo4sno

I can't think of a hobby that requires more time and money to maintain just mid level involvement. It just happens to be the awesomest hobby ever, but let's not be in a rush to add more of either time or $ requirements. At some point the years of neglecting my family to race will hit me and I will realize I made the wrong choice.....

---

Could be worse, you could be racing airplanes, warbirds in particular.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by romoman

Has anyone tried one of these FIA rain lights? https://www.peracing.com.au/products...ved-105-x-65mm

They are about $59 US, so with shipping it should still be under $100.

---

I tried several times to e mail them and got kicked back every time. Did anyone have any success?

The PE Racing has not submitted anything to the FIA for approval.

There are some strip shaped (single row) approved units available in Europe, say for mounting on wing end plates or struts.

Brian

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LarryWinkelman

It's an FE/FE2. And as others have pointed out, it's not entirely clear whether this rule applies. The FCS should supercede the GCR, and the FE/FE2 spec says "any" rain light.

---

I am very sure that FE/FE2 will have the same requirement as all other open wheel cars. The only question in my mind is will there be an Enterprise part number? or will you be able to use a generic part. It is probably best to wait to see how that question is answered.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Terry Hanushek

I am very sure that FE/FE2 will have the same requirement as all other open wheel cars. The only question in my mind is will there be an Enterprise part number? or will you be able to use a generic part. It is probably best to wait to see how that question is answered.

---

Although SRF/3 has a clearly defined 'rear light'/rain/brake light defined in the GCR, FE/2 merely says 'any light will do'. Kinda weird since I could GUESS that each newly purchased car would have INCLUDED a specific light of some sort.
Since FE is OPEN WHEEL and SRF is 'Sports Racer', they would SEEM to fall under the new rule... EXCEPT that the GCR also says that SPECIFIC CLASS RULES FOR SPECIFIC ITEMS OVERRIDE any 'general specifications' elsewhere in the GCR....
....SO.. I guess it remains to be seen...

BTW.. I did finally get my new light installed today. As suspected, not only did it cost me a bit of change, it also took me several DAYS and around 6 or 7 hours to fabricate a new mount to hold this light that is twice as large, twice as heavy and draws 10 times the current of my old FIA approved light. It IS *BRIGHT* though.. BLINDINGLY SO. Everything in my garage 'glows red' when it flashes :D. Thank goodness I can't see it from the cockpit... but I MIGHT see its reflection on cars that are behind me....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steve Demeter

I tried several times to e mail them and got kicked back every time. Did anyone have any success?

---

As I mentioned in my previous post above, that ad does NOT mention the 2019 FIA cert.. only that it is 'FIA approved'.. and .. if you scroll down the page linked in that post, you'll see the same 'lifeline' version of the 2019 spec rain light advertised at .. I think? 289 AU? A tad higher in cost.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steve Davis

Although SRF/3 has a clearly defined 'rear light'/rain/brake light defined in the GCR, FE/2 merely says 'any light will do'. Kinda weird since I could GUESS that each newly purchased car would have INCLUDED a specific light of some sort.
Since FE is OPEN WHEEL and SRF is 'Sports Racer', they would SEEM to fall under the new rule... EXCEPT that the GCR also says that SPECIFIC CLASS RULES FOR SPECIFIC ITEMS OVERRIDE any 'general specifications' elsewhere in the GCR....
....SO.. I guess it remains to be seen...

BTW.. I did finally get my new light installed today. As suspected, not only did it cost me a bit of change, it also took me several DAYS and around 6 or 7 hours to fabricate a new mount to hold this light that is twice as large, twice as heavy and draws 10 times the current of my old FIA approved light. It IS *BRIGHT* though.. BLINDINGLY SO. Everything in my garage 'glows red' when it flashes :D. Thank goodness I can't see it from the cockpit... but I MIGHT see its reflection on cars that are behind me....

---

I was worried my current cantilevered mount design was not going to be stout enough as well. Another benefit of the lighter Afterburner. I imagine my new bracket design with have to span both rear wing uprights.

Including the removal of that old nasty light, I estimate 7-10 hours to get this new required light beacon fully wired, bracket fabricated, painted and installed. This is probably what makes me the crankiest about the situation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steve Davis

As I mentioned in my previous post above, that ad does NOT mention the 2019 FIA cert.. only that it is 'FIA approved'.. and .. if you scroll down the page linked in that post, you'll see the same 'lifeline' version of the 2019 spec rain light advertised at .. I think? 289 AU? A tad higher in cost.

---

At least I don't have to worry about getting hold of them!!!!

Reply to my question on whether or not my current afterburner light will be compliant:

Robert,
This light will not meet the new FIA spec.
We have one that does meet the spec.
Most dealers will have before this rule will be enforced.
See attachment.

Attachment 108035Attachment 108035

As a former racer I was talking to a non-racing friend who questioned whether high intensity strobing rain lights could trigger photosensitive epileptic seizures. Unintended consequences??

Unfortunately, the frequency sensitivity seems to be on the 3-30 Hz range, which would encompass most strobe taillights, unfortunately. However, strobe sensitivity decreases with age, with the most affected being little kids and teenagers.

If you can find a strobe that flashes at 1-2Hz, everyone else should be OK.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bob Coury

Reply to my question on whether or not my current afterburner light will be compliant:

Robert,
This light will not meet the new FIA spec.
We have one that does meet the spec.
Most dealers will have before this rule will be enforced.
See attachment.

Attachment 108035Attachment 108035

---

I opened up the attachment and it said 6 watts at 12vdc which isn't very much. The biggest issue I have is the dumb ass CBD does not ever explain any decision they make, just the typical deal with attitude. The one thing I figured out when I was an inspector in construction, was that when I got push back for a decision that I had to make, was explain why and not just that is what it is. It became a very effective way to reduce a contractor's opposition due to lack of not understanding why. Yes there were times when my personal experience and beliefs went against the rules, but I always told them I don't agree with what I am supposed to tell them and always give them someone above my position's name and number and tell them to contact them.

Ed

Ed, you're right on with that explanation strategy. If change advocates can get buy-in from stakeholders, then better things happen as all are working toward the same goal. So far, our "leadership" has not properly explained why this change is needed, primarily only saying that it's brighter and to look at videos. Yeah, it's brighter but why is that needed? Have there been accidents as a result of the current regs where this new light has been proven to solve that problem? Maybe the SCCA, if they feel so strongly about this, can provide subsidies to alleviate the costs or maybe buy a huge batch then sell the darn things at cost to the membership.

...and as helpful as videos can be, there's still been no-where near adequate discussion, even in this thread, of how differently video cameras etc perceive these light sources vs. the human eye. Especially in the rain, with water smeared across the camera lens.