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Yeah - the problem is the evo4S and evo5 only have monochrome displays (GS-Dash). The TFT stuff doesn't fit in most van Diemens because of the wiring connection (straight out the middle back) .Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardingfv32
Unless you buy one of the new $3k wheels.... which was way overkill.
I have asked AIM about a color GS-Dash (basically the screen out of the wheel) - no reply.
This is not correct. You can tie the FT200 into any current AiM logger with an ECU connection (S2DL, MXm, EVO4s, EVO5, MXL2, MXS, MXP, MXG, PDM08, PDM32, SW4). The display options on each of those change. The S2DL would not be able to make any indication of the state of the FT200. The MXm, GS Dash, and MXL2 would have to use the alarm lights flashing the color of the FT200 warning to give you the warning. The TFT displays could give you a full color screen along with alarm lights if you chose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardingfv32
There is not currently a color screen option for the EVO series loggers and none in the plans AFAIK.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing
That's too bad. One of the reasons I have not upgraded from my MXLPista.Quote:
Originally Posted by romoman
Even the small PDM screen is color.
There are 3 screens for the PDM 5, 6, and 10". The small ones are based on the MXS and MXP. The 10" is unique.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing
But the small PDM screens are not compatible with the evo4s and evo5 - why did they do that?Quote:
Originally Posted by romoman
I did consider the PDM08 but it's less capable than the evo4s/5 (does it even have CAN II?) and I didn't see a lot of value using it in a minimally wired open wheel car.
The PDM screens are pure displays and have no extra capability versus what the G/GS Dashes did.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing
The PDM08 is more powerful. It has 3 CAN inputs (AiM and 2 user defined), 6 analog inputs, more advanced alarm programming, and all the power outputs. It also has all the power features (the PDM08 could power a Formula car / sports racer without problem).
After seeing the closeups of the different mirrors on the f1 cars at COTA this past weekend, then seeing so many cars on the highway this morning with the blind spot indicator lights , got me thinking. So many of us use very similar simple formula car mirrors, and so many on this board are very talented with 3D printing, wouldn’t it be possible to print up a replacement mirror head that would incorporate both the flagtronics unit and a mirror? The harness could be cleanly shrink tubed to the stem and fed through a grommet in the bodywork. Non intrusive to the cockpit, and in full view of the driver 100% of the time.
just a thought …
See post #85 where this is first suggested with some small discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by flattop414
https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/sho...l=1#post654323
Sorry I missed it ?Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing
Fairly easily done. My only concern would be that the additional mass out on the mirror lever arm might make it difficult to keep the mirror head firmly adjusted.Quote:
Originally Posted by flattop414
It would be likely a better place for a remote display, and likely visible to other drivers as well.
out of curiosity, are there any updates or pics of the new, smaller form factor FT unit for formula cars?
now that SCCA has put out their release about it for 2024, the natives are getting restless.
Does anyone have an FT200 and Evo4s using the Fit protocol? I have a combined FT200 / Fit protocol to test.
I talked to them at the PRI show- the new version (separate screen and unit) should be available in the latter part of the first half of 2024.
FRP will stay 'recommended only' until they are released. The system will be live at all our events shared with Trans Am (4-5 events) so it is 'highly recommended'.
Also, I noticed the entry form for the Sebring Super Tour askes for the FT200 serial number.
The boards for the controller with Radio Antenna & GPS wiring are in hand. Enclosure should be done shortly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Clark
Prototype PCBs for the display are in production. Enclosure prototypes in hand. We should have demo units in a month. Validation then volume production run a month after. These are rough estimates and subject to delays if there are any issues or rework required.
Thanks, James. I consider that a pretty good response time considering the RFI/noise issues that probably had to be tackled once you started moving stuff out of that box.
Maybe see you at Sebring.
Steve, FV80
My reading of the Sebring Supps is that they're optional. Hope that's right because I don't have time before leaving for Homestead to buy one and figure out which non-visible location for mounting in my car. Hopefully the new formula car version will be small enough for visible mounting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Wright
My understanding is that the Flagtronics system isn't mandatory until you get to the runoffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by cory mcleod
Encouraged but not required until the Runoffs:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7
https://www.scca.com/articles/201805...ronics-in-2024
thanks for the update, that can't be an easy redesign.Quote:
Originally Posted by vtjballeng
any chance of pictures?
I am sure you have someone with a formula car helping, but considering that we will be forced to buy it, it might be handy for people to see it & perhaps give more feedback from a wider audience.
I used flagtronics in my production car this weekend and I would say that the system lived up to expectations an promises by the manufacturer.
I did have issues with the initial unit that I ordered which became apparent at Homestead (where the system was not active). I called Flagronics early the next week and they said they would inspect the unit at Sebring where they elected to replace the display unit. They came to my padock space and changed out the unit right at the vehicle.
The system worked well and there was one instance where i was able to avoid a pass under yellow issue when I was unsure of the flag condition as thought I saw a flag at the corner.
I think this system has great potential and I look forward to display units which are better suited to formula cars.
Sounds like they have great customer support and are listening to our feedback and concerns regarding formula car applications. That definitely makes the additional cost of this unit an easier pill to swallow.
Thanks for taking the time to give a live report on the ground... I agree, this helps a lot!
Gents:
I sent them an email to Flagtronic, suggesting a miniature remote lighted head similar to this is paramount to Formula cars.
https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/att...d=109922&stc=1
A very cordial and articulate gentleman responded, is short, with:
”…….we are actively working on a modular based in-car system for Formula Cars. The public release is scheduled for this summer therefore the Flagtronics system will not be required for open-wheel and formula cars until the Runoffs in the fall. This new product will be tested in the new F4 chassis in April and May and if all goes well, will be released for sale in June. As a 3 module unit it will be more expensive than the base FT200 and I would expect the price to be around $550.”
This is very good news, and I will most certainly incorporate this system in my rebuild.
Wait, separating into 3 components is going to more than DOUBLE the price?! No thanks. This is where I figure out how to mount the current display into my car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Iverson
Yep. I may just mount it under the shock cover. They say we have to have it, but does that mean we have to look at it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B
whoa.... time out....Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Iverson
-now- I am starting to have more of an issue. I was ok with $250, but now that SCCA will be forcing people with small cars to possibly spend $550?
I have an AIM dash, so it sounds like I will be able to tie into that & keep some costs down... but this will cause a big problem for many budget racers (looking at this from a FV racer perspective).
How am I supposed to justify Club Racing to new people when they have another huge bill for all these new things, after buying a car to race?
Welcome to club racing run by pro racing where cost is of no object!Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Clark
Ed
$550 is a fair price for a three unit system. You have to consider this is going to be a very low volume item. SCCA is not going to worry about the few when 95% of competitors can use the regular $250 unit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Clark
Brian
Spoke to the Aim guys at PRI back in December. The guy I spoke with seems to think they'll be able to display it on their dashes when equipped with an EVO5. Something about needing the second input that EVO4S and prior don't have. You'll still need the other components of the system, but the display won't be needed when their dash can do the job, saving space.
You can display the FT200 info on the AiM dash (They have a video on it and I've done it). For carbed cars, any current RS3 configured dash can do it. For an Evo5, MXL2, MXS, MXP, MXG, PDM08, or PDM32, it can be done with the ECU using the CAN connection. I believe we can do it on an Evo4s as well, but I need a tester.Quote:
Originally Posted by CheckeredFlag
I'm thinking mount it wherever you want and aim a $30 Amazon endoscope at it that comes with remote screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by romoman
Where did you find this video? also can the lights be adapted to the AIM formula wheel?
Brian
You'll find the video at the bottom of this page:
https://flagtronics.com/
Mike, I have a STACK ST8100 occupying my dash assembly, and have absolutely no room. Let me know of your design.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B
BTW, I have another two projects for you
James, any update on this? Any hints on wiring connections as I'm planning a harness upgrade now for other things and if this is mandatory, may as well build it in.Quote:
Originally Posted by vtjballeng
Also, any chance of making it receive GPS info from CAN so we don't need eleventy-three GPS receivers in the car?
The Flagtronic GPS is a transceiver, it it both transmits and receives data. Very specific to the system.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcolley
Brian
Rgr. Missed that part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardingfv32
It's so wonderful something so early in development is mandated. I can't wait to be thrashing around later this summer figuring out how to implement it before the runoffs.
What about CAN connection to older Motec systems like a SDL or ADL?
Ferg indicates that is possible with the Motec SDL through the warning lights. I’m going to wait for the smaller unit before making a decision. I think the standard line is workable however; it isn’t that big.Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Sport Engineering
I sent a letter to the CRB today requesting a delay in the mandated implementation of this system for open wheel cars until the second season that occurs after an open wheel friendly version is available.
I suggest if you feel the same, please submit a letter!
The speed at which this has become a mandate given it's unproven nature in open wheel race cockpits is sickening to me, and just reeks of back door financial deals.
I really am a bit perplexed by the dislike of this system.
Having used in a couple races now, I think it is fantastic. Being able to go code 35 at VIR instead of having to go FCY or BFA would save us so much track time.
It works so well.
Are you referring to the "Overview" video?Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ferguson
I apologize if this has been covered already, but are there instructions anywhere for making the Flagtronics work with AIM EVO 4s? That would be my preferred solution. I have no visible location to mount the FT200 and would appreciate not having to pay double for the smaller unit.
Thanks, Cory
I am glad you feel it work well. Hopefully, in the end, it will be successful for all.Quote:
Originally Posted by iamuwere
The main dislike of this system is the packaging. Being a larger person in a tight fitting car, I literally no space for this devices current display. Most of us take pride in the way we setup, layout, etc. It's part of the love of OW racing.
Then there is the mandate.
- Many feel this was sprung on us with little to no feedback opportunity. Choices were not made available. Whether the best choice was made is not really the point. It's the dictation of a decision. We thought this was a club and we were members but it's acting more like a government agency.
- Now, for most of us, to get packaging that will work, we have to pay a premium. A penalty or tax on our class.
It still irks me and I will wait until I absolutely have to install it. That said it appears to me the Supertour and Majors participation is low this year. Coincidence?
I have several issues with the mandate.Quote:
Originally Posted by iamuwere
As BeerBudget stated, larger drivers (I'm almost 6'4") need to pay very careful attention to where everything is placed in the cockpit. The amount of time I've spent modifying steering shaft mounts, sway bar adjusters, switches, bias adjusters, shift linkages, wire routing to the dash, fire pull lever, radio access, ect. is staggering. Every inch of space is carefully thought out and used.
Most of us will not accept the system without integrating it into our existing wiring. For some it's a requirement as something as simple as wire routing can be a challenge. When I added ride height sensors last year, I spent over $400 in Raychem shrink tubing, connectors, ect. I suspect this will be no different. Therefore it's not just a $249 install.
Then there is the weight. I haven't seen weight figures published, but I'm assuming with the display, wires, gps and battery, it must be close to 2lbs. I have to fight for every pound to stay close to the minimum weight. I've analyzed what I've spent on weight reduction, and it averages to about $800 per pound. I'm also running out of ideas, so I suspect that average will go up. So if this unit ends up adding 2lb, I'll need to find it somewhere else to remove at a cost of $1600+.
Therefore my true cost is closer to $2000 to install not including my labor.
Typically the adaption of new technology follows the path of introduction, then the early adopters get on board, early adopters identify needed improvements, changes are made to make it more appealing to the masses, it gains wider acceptance and usage, then it's mandated. We went from step one to the final step in less then a year. Why? What's the rush? I can only assume money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing
I get the size thing. I am 6'3" and 220 pounds. I have limited space but this thing is no bigger than a bias knob.
What requirement for feedback are required to have for something like this? People seem to misunderstand the definition of club racing. It is club in that it is not pro, not club that everyone gets a vote in what happens.
I don't think participation is down because of this thing since there is NO requirement that we have it. How would a non-required device make participation fall?
It's quite obvious that this was developed by sedan racers for sedan racers with no thought whatsoever given to the formula/sportsracer group. Further, it's clear that it was mandated by the SCCA with no thought whatsoever given to the F/SR red-headed stepchildren. Only now is a "smaller" version (but double the price!) being developed as an afterthought after this community raised our concerns. I think a delay in implementation is completely reasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing
I can't 'see' the bias knob I have. I have no chance of 'feeling' the color of the display.Quote:
Originally Posted by iamuwere
Club "an organization of people with a common purpose or interest,"
They do promote the illusion that our vote matters. There is a current vote on something right now - but it isn't car related.
See thread on cost of racing.Quote:
Originally Posted by iamuwere
Put it off until it becomes proven and accepted. My issue besides non value added cost, is that how are you going to remember all the combinations that it can shown the proposed tiny formula car display.
I oculd not even remember them when watching the short video, let alone when driving.
This as it exists now will prove IMHO to be a significant distraction and cause more trouble than it prevents.
Just think, the tiny flashing display will potentially change at every flag station.
We need to be watching the track and not some silly display in the cockpit.
I called Flagtronics and they were not very helpful. Gentleman stated that I had to call the Club and they could provide me the information about the New Formula car system.I am with Michael,if they can’t provide a product in a timely manner and the Club makes unattainable decisions,I think we scrap it til next year so everyone is more prepared.IMHP.
Tim MinorFc88:yellowflag:
I used this system for the first time last weekend at a Champcar race. I have to say it worked very well, and the actual size in person is very small and will fit my car or any of the cars I service just fine. Purple 35 seemed like a much easier system than pace car to me. I will put one in my car with no complaints as soon as they start using it at all the races.