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I'm not a newbie so I should really know the answers to all of this!
I'm finishing a Crossle build and I realise I don't know what hoses to use for the various applications.
Can folks guide me on the hose types (braided, rubber, connector type, etc) and what to look for in the following applications;
- Fuel cell to carb (also any considerations for filter location and type?)
- Carb back to fuel cell
- Water coolant overflow
- Oil breather (in dry sump setup)
Thanks in advance!
Ian
Man, there's a lot here. First, look at the Earls, aeroquip, and XRP web pages for starters. And of course, the "To Win" series, especially the book on plumbing.
In general you can use any pressure-rated oil hose in the dry sump system. Budget hose is usually a black rubber item that goes with barbed fittings. Next step up is stainless steel braided and there are two different kinds of ends for those. There's a nipple and cutter style and one that's a bit more like a compression fitting. All of that stuff can be fabricated in your garage.
Then theres a green kevlar braided variety that has to be made up and crimped at the seller. This requires you to be very confident of your lengths and the angles that the fittings are installed at. Better used to replace existing hoses where you have examples.
Fuel is essentially the same answer.
For fuel and water overflow I use a blue silicone, no braid. Lasts forever. Most of the vinyl stuff gets hard and has to be replaced every couple of seasons.
For oil breathers I use soft aluminum tubing with short pieces of braided silicone for the connectors. I did this because the bends I needed to make to get to my catch tank kinked the hoses.
I use "Pushlok" or equivalent 250+ psi push-on hose with barbed fittings - Summit Racing and other suppliers should have the hose and fittings you'll need. You can install it yourself with your own custom lengths. A little heat and lube in the hose and on the fittings makes installation easier.
I don't like SS braid shielded hose - it is hard to work with and if it rubs on anything, it will either wear through the braid, causing a failure, or wear through whatever it is rubbing on.
For oil return and oil pump supply lines I use -10 AN. For oil pressure lines I use -8 AN.
I also use a normal paper automotive filter, a heat exchanger on the pump outlet line, a small oil cooler on the scavenge side (all shown below), plus an "XRP" -10 inline filter (not shown) between the dry-sump outlet and the pump.
Summit Racing has a good looking -10 AN inline filter - link: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pff-09-0402
Thanks Fellas. Very detailed and helpful. You've given me what I needed to get started!
I especially love the invisible puncture wounds. Its time to replace most of my hoses and there are a couple with little stainless barbs sticking up. Last week I stuck myself and when withdrawing, turned it into a slice from a puncture.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
As the title says...
Ian Sweeney in a Crossle? I don't know what kind of celebration the Irish do for these sorts of announcements, maybe banging a shillelagh against one of those little pan shaped Irish drums? In any case, color me green with excitement!Quote:
Originally Posted by IDSRacing
Come up to the shop sometime Ian, I'll walk you through a handful of examples of FF lunacy to spark your creativity.
@Dave - thanks! Would you use the Pushlok for fuel (pressured)? What size?
@Ethan, ah the secret is out! In further bad news, I will definitely be dropping by soon!
I use similar hose (-6 AN) for external fuel lines. There is hose available that is specifically for gasoline/etc., if you really want the best option, but I've not had any issues using that the oil resistant AN hose. Inside the fuel cell, I'd use hose rated for use with fuel so it doesn't deteriorate due to continuous fuel immersion.Quote:
Originally Posted by IDSRacing
On a related note, for flexible brake lines I use shrink wrap on the -3 and -4 AN lines. Link to related thread: https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/sho...ht=shrink+wrapQuote:
Originally Posted by Rick Kirchner
As Dave mentioned I use a push lock type. The one I have used for over 20 years is "Parker" push lock and is available at most hydraulic house shops. Here in the northeast a company called Cauliflower is who I have been using in MD and now in central PA.
I use metal lines for brakes where possible then go to braided lines to each wheel and to the clutch slave cylinder. As a note brake lines that are flexible as in braided the person or company will most likely want to make them and not sell you the materials to do it yourself. Pegasus is where I go for Airoquep supplies. Nice thing about airoquip is the fittings are re usable.
Ed
Something that is usually mentioned by this point, is the fact that the suction side of an oil pump oil line should be teflon lined on the interior to prevent oil line collapse. There may be other materials or construction methods that prevent line collapse, but you at least need to be aware of the potential problem.
-Jim
That is a potential issue if there is too much restriction in the dry-sump tank exit to the pump. The standard push-on 250 psi hose will withstand a significant amount of vacuum, so if the path to the pump is reasonably obstruction-free*, and the hose is not severely bent, kinked, or squashed that will work fine. I've had no issues with -10 AN push-on hose collapse in 50+ years of FF & FC oil pump supply lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabre1fv
* The usual offender in that regard is an overly restrictive or debris-blocked inline filter, or some fitting with a very small ID.
Using a very high viscosity oil like straight 50-weight in cold ambient can also cause issues - I have never run higher than 10W40 synthetic. On my Zetec I use 0W30.
And if you are using a mechanical oil pressure gauge, a teflon brake line is a safer option than the often used- pissy hard plastic line. When you see what hot engine oil does when the hose breaks and then sprays over your nether regions, you’ll thank me.
We agree. Our rules require braided stainless hose for in cockpit oil or fuel lines. Usually -3 for oil presure and -6 if fuel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawke