Anyone seen a groups/schedule for Atlanta anywhere? Motorsportsreg hasn't listed the event yet.
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Anyone seen a groups/schedule for Atlanta anywhere? Motorsportsreg hasn't listed the event yet.
We're working on it now. Probably be at least another couple of weeks before it's available.
Steve, FV80
Only four sessions over three days, and a premium to load in during daylight? hmmmm
Ian,
I'm afraid the answer is YES. Our entry fee is less than either Sebring or Homestead, but the track time has been shrinking never endingly for the last few years. Fewer Volunteers (as we all seem to be aging out ... and not replaced by younger for the most part) . and thusly increased fees to cover additional costs to 'encourage' workers to come out. Increased fees and RESTRICTIONS from the tracks about who can do what where while the track is HOT. Shorter days from track shut down requirements... I could go on.
The 'premium' for loading in during daylight is an attempt to ease the MADHOUSE LOAD IN that we've experienced in previous years with hundreds of rigs all linked up to get in when the gates open. The track has been very NOT accommodating about allowing us to load in and therefore, with the DELAYS that the track has gifted us with it has been almost dark before ANYONE got inside . and we had more than 100 rigs trying to get parked IN THE DARK. The only solution we could some up with was to RENT the track for the extra day and that cost a LOT of money. The only way we could pay for that was to CHARGE for the privilege of being able to load in. It was a LOT more important to the PrepShops that were bringing in a large number of cars at a time, but once the decision was made to see if we could make this work, we decided to also allow ANYONE to come in 'early' if they were willing to share in the cost of the additional day. We may very well end up losing a LOT of $$$, but we are hoping to maybe get close to breaking even on the day.
Considering the fact that the parking charge + our Entry fee is about equal to the entry fee for the Early races, we are hoping the drivers agree.
Think about what has happened to the cost of HOUSES and CARS in the last 2 years...
Steve, FV80
I was going to try really hard to make it out there (from Texas) since I've got family in the general area, but after seeing that schedule it's a hard no from me.
Apparently part of the problem is this mandatory quiet hour farce on Sunday, but the end result is an event that offers terrible value in terms of time on track, and results in having to jump in and race two days in a row without a single lap turned in practice/qualifying earlier that day. I wonder what the "green to checker" impact from that will be...
I am not involved in any way with this event. However, one factor in this schedule is that Majors and Super Tour events run to a "time certain" schedule. That is, sessions start at a fixed time. If the previous session had no clean-up, for example, there would be a chunk of dead time between the two sessions. That time is lost. There is no way to build a time buffer against major clean-ups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7
SCCA National is deeply attached to this format. Apparently, it's a "pro" thing. The difference, of course, is that F1 has one run group, not eight. I was chief steward for a precursor to the Super Tour, run to a time certain schedule. We ended up with everybody twiddling their thumbs for long stretches on hot summer afternoons, and each day went at least an hour longer than necessary. Topeka wouldn't budge.
The other factor at Road Atlanta is the two-hour quiet time Sunday morning, from 10 till noon. Effectively, it is more than two hours. Any time between the end of the previous session and 10am is simply lost. It just tears the heart out of the day.
So, between time certain schedule, quiet time, eight run groups, and track-imposed restrictions, you end up with fewer and/or shorter sessions.
Steve - Thanks for the explanation. See you at the track.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Davis
Cory
Some may find it confusing that the schedule disappoints me - I still get three days pay but for possibly less overall effort (in theory),
but if enough drivers like the guy above say "bad value, not going", eventually there might be no work for us :checkered:
The Atlanta Region Race Chairman for the HST has asked me to post his response ...
I am the new Atlanta Region Co-Race Chair. I would like to respond to the comments about the Early Load-In for the Hoosier Racing Tire SCCA Super Tour at Michelin Raceway Road Atlanta.
For the last few years one of the biggest issues and complaints we have had for Atlanta Region events has been the "competitor load-in". For years, the track has had a client the day before the test day that prevented any of our paddock people from entering the facility until late in the afternoon. Sometimes this meant we couldn't begin to allow rigs into the paddock until it was nearly dark. Even though the late load-in was not the fault of Atlanta Region, we were blamed for the delay. It became obvious that the only way we could begin parking at a reasonable time would be if we rented the paddocks the day before the test day. We agreed this year to rent the paddocks the day before the test day. This additional day of paddock rental is a considerable additional expense to the region.
The region had two choices - we could raise the entry fee for everyone to cover the additional cost or we could offer it as an extra fee for those who wanted to take advantage of early load-in. We felt that the second option was fairer than the first. Of course, the region had to come up with a cut off time, and after much debate 8 PM was decided on. Last year we spoke to a lot of competitors about the idea and everyone we spoke to suggested $50 per car; a few suggested even more. Even at $50 per car the additional rental fee may not be recouped. Even with the additional (but optional) fee the entry fees are comparable to other Super Tour events.
We've listened to your feedback regarding load-in and this is an attempt to make things run smoother. I am happy to hear your concerns, ideas, and suggestions. You may email me at clarkmcinnis@bellsouth.net.
Thank you,
Clark McInnis
Race Chair
Atlanta Region SCCA
This is CLUB RACING not Pro. If I wanted to participate in a Pro event I would.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Nesbitt
SCCA has never handled time specific events well.
That's because you'll never see a pro event with EIGHT groups.Quote:
Originally Posted by mmi16
Steve
Thanks Steve for the explanation and cause. READ client who rented facility the day before. That should explain it in it's entirety. The reason or the what I think is the biggest reason for the constant rise in track rental is the clubs, read Porsche, BMW, etc.mostly expensive car owners who can afford whatever it will cost to go drive their car at a real race track
This trend has been going on for many years and you wonder why the grass roots competitor is being squeezed out buy big money. Just like everything else in life, money talks.
I remember when I started regional racing in the early 80's and entry fee was I think $70-80 range. Also every car was tech ed before getting on the track. I am kinda glad I am not as active as I used to be and even with all of the changes to make it easier to get on the track the cost is rising way faster than the fun factor.
Being retired really eases the rush to drive many hours after getting off work and then right back home to go beck to work, I am not willing to pay additional just to get into the track since the cost is already in my feeling over priced. FRP has been a welcomed group and they expect everyone to act like adults and professional so it is way nicer to go to their events. Unfortunately scca pro has bought out the group so I am interested in how long it will take the club to screw that up. I don't know why, but pro seems to always screw up everything they touch. I guess we will see.
Ed
SCCA has not "bought out" FRP. Parella Motorsports Holdings has "leased" SCCA Pro Racing and is operating it. There are a number of details surrounding membership in ACCUS and the FIA that are required to run a FIA F4 or FR event. FRP is running 5 out of 7 events in conjunction with PMH.
FRP, Trans Am, F4 and FR are operated under and sanctioned by SCCA Pro Racing. T/A, F4 and FR are owned by PMH, FRP is not.
As to previous comments about track costs and who is dominating track rentals...It is the car clubs and groups like Chin Driving Experience (they had 65 events in 2022, many at great tracks, for instance). The track costs are out of control for groups like FRP, and essentially pushing them to the sidelines in favor of the car clubs.
95% of "pro racing" in North America is just "club racing" organized by private entities (rather than SCCA). Having contempt for "Pro racing" is wasted hatred! As someone, who has crossed over between vintage and club and pro, I can assure you that we are all brothers doing essentially the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by mmi16
A privately operated group can often provide better value to their racer customers because they have far fewer stakeholders to satisfy. A typical SCCA event starts with almost 30 classes to satisfy while operating under a 1950s business model. Compare that to a privately run group with perhaps 6 classes. Unfortunately, alternatives to SCCA are very limited for many classes in different parts of the country.
I would suggest that SCCA operations is as much or more of a problem than the time specific format, which would certainly be considered the industry standard at this time.
FRP provides the best value in racing. No dead time between sessions and the great ability to adapt to changes quickly.
Bob Wright and crew are bringing their A game to every event.
When I first saw the $50 fee for early (daylight) load-in, it appeared that it was just another fee to the region. Thanks to the explanation by Steve and Clark McInnis, its clear that the region is taking a rather positive step to overcome a very difficult situation at the track. It is normal for a track lease to start at 6:00 or 7:00 PM the night before the event to allow the previous day's tenant full access during their lease. This appears to be a classic case of "No good deed goes unpunished".
John is dead on target with his comments on time certain schedules. After playing the game for 50+ years I have found no reason to go this way at a club race weekend. I don't know who in Topeka is mandating time certain schedules, but they obviously lack understanding of the real world.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Nesbitt
As the staff at the home office do not seem willing to listen to reason, rather than flogging them we should be talking to the CRB or the Directors. Perhaps they will step up and sort out this nonsense.