I have not been paying attention lately. Given the dismal turn-out of late, is the FB class going to be invited to the 2019 Run-Offs at VIR?
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I have not been paying attention lately. Given the dismal turn-out of late, is the FB class going to be invited to the 2019 Run-Offs at VIR?
I don’t know any more than you. I think FB will make a decent showing next year with our series running Majors again. I don’t know if that will be enough to receive an invite however. If everyone does their part, I’m optimistic good things will happen.
It won't be automatic according to the GCR but classes may be added .The runoffs classes are supposed to be announced by January 1st. Twenty one classes have automatically made it.Personally I think 21 is to many and wouldn't add anymore unless they were combined with some classes that were already invited.
From the GCR
2019 Runoffs Class Tracking
Per SCCA General Competition Rules (GCR) Section 3.7.4.C: All classes with a combined two-year event average of at least 4.0 participants in Majors and Runoffs competition will automatically be invited to the following year’s Runoffs. Classes not meeting that criteria may be invited as the event format and venue permits. The Road Racing department, in consultation with the Club Racing Board, will determine and announce by January 1 the Runoffs-eligible classes invited to the next Runoffs consistent with the event format and venue. For example: If the two-year period includes 68 Majors weekends and two Runoffs, for a total of 70 events, a class would need at least 280 participants over that period to average 4.0 per event.
Last Events Added: Sonoma Raceway, Motor Speedway Resort Houston, High Plains Raceway
2018 Majors Events Remaining: 0
Total Entries Required to Average at Least 4.0: 284
2017 Majors 2017 Runoffs 2018 Majors 2018 Runoffs Current Total Current Average Needed to Reach 284 Total Events 35 1 34 1 71 AS 152 30 114 12 308 4.3 Achieved B-Spec 106 18 85 14 223 3.1 61 EP 233 45 167 19 464 6.5 Achieved F5 183 38 106 5 332 4.7 Achieved FA 133 12 155 7 307 4.3 Achieved FB 101 18 39 7 165 2.3 119 FC 141 14 119 16 290 4.1 Achieved FE 172 35 114 10 331 4.7 Achieved FE2 0 0 53 9 62 0.9 222 FF 234 36 209 22 501 7.1 Achieved FM 112 16 107 13 248 3.5 36 FP 203 42 148 15 408 5.7 Achieved FV 238 39 227 29 533 7.5 Achieved GT1 158 17 149 8 332 4.7 Achieved GT2 235 36 230 23 524 7.4 Achieved GT3 101 17 80 10 208 2.9 76 GTL 131 26 102 20 279 3.9 5 HP 197 46 129 16 388 5.5 Achieved P1 120 19 120 19 278 3.9 6 P2 126 25 125 19 295 4.2 Achieved SM 823 86 779 48 1736 24.5 Achieved SRF3 892 101 851 36 1880 26.5 Achieved STL 362 57 273 19 711 10.0 Achieved STU 184 34 140 10 368 5.2 Achieved T1 141 22 156 17 336 4.7 Achieved T2 178 26 189 29 422 5.9 Achieved T3 131 24 137 17 309 4.4 Achieved T4 214 40 144 12 410 5.8 Achieved
I was told by a very reliable source that FB will be invited to the 2019 RO's.
While I have nothing against FB (or any other class), we all agree there are too many classes, and too little runoffs track time over too many days, so what's the point of this scca policy if it isn't implemented? What have I missed?Quote:
Originally Posted by ghickman
thx
It was explained clearly in the original and subsequent press releases on the subject that it will depend on the Runoffs venue's capacity. That would mean both track length and paddock size. The latter is obvious. The former could constrain class combinations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7
You know they have to allow their class, FE2 with it's numbers, and FB's numbers are better (not great, just better).Quote:
Originally Posted by ghickman
Once again with SCCA having their own cars to promote, there will be consequences (lucky for FB)
FE/FE2, like SRF/SRF3, is a transition situation with a plan similar to the SRF sunset.Quote:
Originally Posted by kea
And consider the FE2 has about half a year on participation since the cars started to be converted / raced in the middle of last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by kea
I'm just saying.
It's like when SCCA tried to fudge the participation average numbers on Shelby CanAm to keep them a National class, and yet their numbers at the time would have cancelled any other class.
They protect their own.
But, then it's harder for them to deny another class at the same time.
The question is if FE owners will upgrade or sell? Many can't afford the ~$20k upgrade cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Olivola
They may not get the numbers next year. Then what...
It's still no different than the SRF/SRF3 situation, which had several years to get going.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing
Of all the issues with the Runoffs and other aspects of the club, this is probably the least. A convenient one to harp on, but not a real opportunity for improvement. When/if the combined FE/FE2 doesn't meet numbers you'll have something to talk about, and past performance is no indicator of future outcomes, but the SRF/SRF3 upgrade indicates that Enterprises has a plan that has worked before.
I saw that originally and had the same thought I subsequently posted. Why not take the opportunity to pare down the class count if you already have a 'rule' or process that allows it? Just because there's physical room for a certain class doesn't necessarily justify keeping a dying class alive and forcing mixed classes at the runoffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Olivola
(full disclosure, I'm part of a dying class, and looking to move to one that isn't).
regards
I sure hope the SCCA is going to do something really reckless that is going to cost them a boatload of money. We have heard nothing will happen in 2019, or maybe ever.
We all know what this about. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with too many classes at the runoffs. How can it be when the plan is not to reduced the number of classes but to remove some classes and just replace them with others?
We know what they are really doing. They are disfranchising some so they can open up the runoffs for their pro series classes (F4, F3) so they can dump those cars into the club part of the SCCA so they don't end up being write-offs.
But apparently its ok to them (or is it really only him?) for the rest of us to write off our cars. This has been the scheme from day one. The fix was in from the second SCCA sanctioned these classes under their Pro Series umbrella. It's dishonest, its corrupt, and they are liable for their actions if they do this.
Have we seen this dance before? Same SCCA cheerleader, same critics (including myself), just another day .....in the SCCA toilet.
Let's let anybody and everybody race who wants to spend the time and money to go to the Runoffs ...... except of course for those dirty &*$#@*'s with too much safety protection built into their Formula F cars. :ha:
Right . . . :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Copeland
Except the participation numbers (pool of cars) are not nearly the same. SRF is better than 4x FE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Olivola
Just saying it's different. The upgrade cost is going to take people out. FE drivers are harder to replace than SRF drivers.
They will need a higher percentage to upgrade at a faster rate.
Identifying a potential future problem is one thing. What's your solution?Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing
imo the only way to increase participation is to reduce the cost to race. Imo nothing else will work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Olivola
I have been very involved in racing for over 50 years. It is my opinion that racing costs have increased at a much higher rate than inflation for about 20 years.
I am an ow fan and the only 2 ow classes that make any economic sense are FV and F5. The rest of the ow classes make no sense imo.
My only ide on helping this is to figure out a way to reduce costs to build cars that people will want to race.
Imo FV is great but too slow to bring new racers into the class
Imo F5 cars are simply too small to attract new racers but they are fast enough. I think a restructuring of the F5 rules to make them more appealing and bigger might help but my last idea to make F600 cars a seperate class with bigger was not approved and F6 was merged into F5 and the numbers do not look great.
I would still like to see F6 a seperate class with it own rules to make them bigger and more visually like other OW cars. The club has no interest in this concept. I will start another post in the F600 forum on this subject.
[QUOTE=Jnovak;571944]imo the only way to increase participation is to reduce the cost to race. Imo nothing else will work.
I have been very involved in racing for over 50 years. It is my opinion that racing costs have increased at a much higher rate than inflation for about 20 years.
I am an ow fan and the only 2 ow classes that make any economic sense are FV and F5. The rest of the ow classes make no sense imo.
Jay,
You are missing the renaissance in Formula Ford (that is "Ford" not "F"). As SCCA oversaw the demise of Formula Ford, the market has found its own solution. Across the USA there are regular meetings attracting 25 to 50 Fords, usually on control tires to dramatically reduce tire cost - eg. the Hoosier vintage tread tire is relatively inexpensive, does not go off, will easily last a season and is fast and controllable. Thanks to Ivey et al the engines do 50+ hours, with modest maintenance if properly installed and regular oil and filter changes and valve clearance checks. Its brought Formula Ford full circle to the low cost club formula it was intended to be. All those derelict Club Fords have/are being dusted off, refurbished and out racing to join the stalwarts that kept going during the SCCA open wheel demise.
So a set of tires a year at around $750, an engine refresh every 3 years around $3,500 is really economical for the family man. Of course everyone has the cost of chassis maintenance, gas, entries etc, and any potential damage cost.
There are successful series on the East, West coasts, in the center and in the South. In fairness its not so attractive for the 16 year olds - they are better off running the F1600 or F4 races, but its ideal for the low budget weekend warrior.
FB is a wonderful formula but was always going to have a limited market - it needs engineering ability only a few have and competes with a plethora of open wheel formulae created by SCCA, in its infinite wisdom, which have diluted an already limited market place. There are no winners other than those the SCCA has a financial interest in - and even that has its own limitations.
There should only ever have been FV, Formula Ford, FB and none of this would have happened, but here we are - 22+ classes at the runoffs?
BB
BB
Well said..
I kinda think FV FF FA but the idea is definitely limited classes
Cut a bunch of classes. Let people decide if they are attached to their class or the club. If the club provides the experience, they'll find a class/car to race. If they are attached to their class, they'll find somewhere else to race. Trying to be all inclusive has just resulted in some severely diluted racing classes.
i think you are correct DarylQuote:
Originally Posted by Daryl DeArman
So it's official now. We're in.
SCCA just announce 2019 runoffs classes today.
Everyone dust off those cars and let’s go racing in 2019! Hopefully this news will bring many on the east coast out of hiding.
Yes, good news. I for one, plan to run the FB this year after an absence from the class for a while. It is such great class, I hope that it can regain some of it's past popularity. You cannot go faster for less money....period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zcurves
Who else is planning on running FB this year? Can we see a show of hands?
Thanks Joel..... you will like getting back in the car.......bring your young protege with you!
Everyone else........call every FB owner know and encourage and/or help get them to some Majors races in 2019.
There are at least 70 or 80 cars in the country......and if they come out, we will have some good numbers.<br>
Jerry Hodges
Now that I have my own wheels I can't wait to get back on track. Having my first run in the car this Friday at Thunderhill. Hopefully later back East with the NAF1000 for the entire season. Lets see if we can break a few entry records next year.
Is there anyone that is qualified for the Runoffs? I doubt that there is anyone that will enter the race even though there is a class.
This will only reinforce the BOD decision to bump it into FA.