FF has had some polls, figured it wouldn't be a bad idea to see where everyone on the forum stands.
Also send your letters in to get the process started, we don't need to decide now as to what tire but lets get everything started at least. CRB Link
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FF has had some polls, figured it wouldn't be a bad idea to see where everyone on the forum stands.
Also send your letters in to get the process started, we don't need to decide now as to what tire but lets get everything started at least. CRB Link
This has already been doneQuote:
Originally Posted by B Farnham
Link to said poll?Quote:
Originally Posted by fvracer27
if you have been reading all the previous threads it is very easy to find the results.Quote:
Originally Posted by B Farnham
You mean the poll from years ago? A lot has changed since thenQuote:
Originally Posted by fvracer27
I don't think it was "Years ago" 2 maybe.... what has changed?Quote:
Originally Posted by B Farnham
http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/show...t=69837&page=7
Post 248
2012 is years ago, or am I missing something?Quote:
Originally Posted by fvracer27
Back in 2012 no one ran the Falkens in the U.S. and FF wasn't thinking about going to the Toyos. Times have changed, look at the poll thus far
You have to be kidding.... that's what has changed in 2 years :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by B Farnham
The survey from 3 years ago called for a treaded tire similar to a vintage tire and a DOT tire, both had very little support. Should I delete the thread to make you happy though? It seems I've offended you somehowQuote:
Originally Posted by fvracer27
Not at all i was just saying it has been covered, but really not much has changedQuote:
Originally Posted by B Farnham
I would say enough has changed to warrant the poll again.Quote:
Originally Posted by fvracer27
It seems to bother you quite a bit. Why?
3 years ago out of 252 respondants only 6% voted for a DOT tire which equates to 15 people. In this poll so far 10 out of the 15 have voted for a DOT tire which shows something has changed. It never hurts to have more dataQuote:
Originally Posted by fvracer27
It'd be awesome if the world remained constant over two years. Actually no, that would be horrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by maloneyjack
Someone please tell me what has changed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamond Formula Cars
The world spun around the sun twice. ISIL showed al-qaeda the finger and took over the region. Apparently quite a few people changed their minds on what kind of tire they'd like to run.
Ok, for one thing in the SF region this year we have had an average of 1 car/race in FV.Quote:
Originally Posted by fvracer27
That is the lowest it has ever been by far. And we have a great spec tire rule.
I have no idea why this is, or what to do about it, but sitting around and saying that nothing has changed and everything is fine is kind of like putting your head in the sand.
These are not the droids you're looking for......
The USA has discovered that Falken tires are not that bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by fvracer27
I voted for the radial, but I like the alternate were both slicks/radials can be used better.
The only vote that matters Nationally (in SCCA) is with the CRB. Write to them and let them know what you want.
The USA or 15-20 drivers?Quote:
Originally Posted by G.B.
A spec tire will not fix this IMO. Something like what we are doing in the Northeast might help but it may be just to late.Quote:
Ok, for one thing in the SF region this year we have had an average of 1 car/race in FV.
I agree $800 tires does not help but neither does $500 entry fees or $3 gal fuel to travel all while wages of most FV entrants are low. My guess is the west coast average income is higher than the east and young new driver have chosen more expensive fancy classes to start in.
Not to late, and marketing the series FV /F1200 Will help..Weather the NE, Challenge Cup, SFR, F1200. Everyone is doing something to increase participation.Quote:
Originally Posted by fvracer27
Certain costs of racing we are not going to be able to change, like entry fee's, but can we control other factors to off-set that.
FV /F1200 is NOT dead, it is actually growing in Participation this year, and with everyone working together it will grow more next year.
Remember;
There are cars in Garages that need to come out.
There are drivers dong 2-3 event how can we get that to 5-6
There are potential drivers looking to get into Opne Wheel racing, we need those.
There are potential drivers that do not know we exist, we need to get those.
I know, easy on paper a lot harder in real life.
You think we are the only class worried about participation and Spec tires? look around the forums. This is racing in general.
I say it's might be to late because there is no one there to push like we have in the NE.Quote:
Originally Posted by nbrigido
I'm well aware it is growing in the NE we have been working on it for 4 years.Quote:
FV/F1200 is NOT dead, it is actually growing in Participation this year, and with everyone working together it will grow more next year.
I agree but how do we convince these people to bring the car back out? In most cases these people are done and will cost thousand to get back out there not just because of tires.Quote:
There are cars in Garages that need to come out.
Give them a raise, more time off, convince the wife or husband they need to spend less time with family? There is many reasons, people do the number of events they do. I do agree tire cost will help but will that alone make all the difference? I'm not so sure.Quote:
There are drivers dong 2-3 event how can we get that to 5-6
This is the reason we have been doing what we have in the Northeast. I encourage every region that has people willing to help to take a look at nefv.org a simple informational site with contact information has gone a long way for us. The more information we have out there the better.Quote:
There are potential drivers looking to get into Opne Wheel racing, we need those.
There are potential drivers that do not know we exist, we need to get those.
You are correct it looks easy but it's a lot of work especially when most of us have full time jobs and families.Quote:
I know, easy on paper a lot harder in real life.
Quote:
You think we are the only class worried about participation and Spec tires? look around the forums. This is racing in general.
I agree we are not the only class worried but we can only control ours.
I think everyone is on the right track we just have to keep doing more of it. There are things we can even do between regions/series to make it better for next year as we are alwasy learning.
We are Supposed to be the most cost effect for of racing with focus on driving skills. Let's do it. And if it one region at a time, let push forward, Get more FV only race groups.
No need to guess, not even close. Cali is 10th by state income. 6 of the top 10 are east coast states. That is excluding DC which is also top 10.Quote:
My guess is the west coast average income is higher than the east and young new driver have chosen more expensive fancy classes to start in.
I didn't vote for one as I've been racing elsewhere. Now I have the opportunity to vote and add my choice democraticly.Quote:
Originally Posted by fvracer27
If only 5% of the FV community want the Falken package, as some want us to believe, and there are 18 who have voted so (30 total), then it is time for the other 330 people to vote ;)
I don't see the point of slamming Brian's post because you don't think things have changed enough since the last time a poll was created. Isn't part of the idea of a poll to determine if views have changed? You get one vote just like everyone else. Place your one vote, wait for the results, and then bask in the glory of being correct. Why does everything always have to deteriorate into senseless bickering that just distracts attention away from valid discussion?
Brian.....just add a fourth option to your poll that says "Nothing has changed since the last poll" so people have a place to state their opinion without cluttering up reasonable discussion about what has changed among those who believe things have indeed changed.
Your'e spot on with the entry fees. Spec tire though helps a lot to get healthy fields to races. This is my 40th year racing formula Vees on spec tires(mostly in South Africa). Only raced the 30th anniversary at Elkhartlake on slicks with one of Bill Nobles vees.Quote:
Originally Posted by fvracer27
We may not be elitists nor future stars but still enjoy the rush in the Challenge Cup group. Everything equal with tires that last three years a big bonus. I'm now on my second season old Falkens and still manage to be in the top five with less then a second difference between the first five(Pittsburg).....and not a big difference to the seventeenth spot.
As someone cautioned...if FF go to spec tires we may loose even more drivers as cost per race would be close to equal for the mid pack driver.
[QUOTE=fvracer27;482143]I say it's might be to late because there is no one there to push like we have in the NE.
I agree but how do we convince these people to bring the car back out? In most cases these people are done and will cost thousand to get back out there not just because of tires.
In the case with slicks and a limited budget it's near impossible. With a set of Falkens on your vee you can selectively choose to race the odd race here and there. I choose to take part in as many races as possible due to the tire package and spending less racing dollar per event.
However with the second vee in the household it's a case of getting it ready on limited funds My son in law can now afford to take part in a few races on the Falkens and would be out on track next year.
Those in garages can now rent a set of tires and rims for as little as $50 and be competitive.
Someone mentioned it's just 20 odd drivers. Yet we have a successful series with high participation. Now 31 members in the Challenge Cup alone and growing.Quote:
Originally Posted by fvracer27
We got two"families" drawn into our social and racing family the past event. Now we have them promoting(here on Apex) the tire of choice for the series.
Rather encourage the family to enjoy and take part. We have numerous families in our group that enjoy the social around the events. For the first time my wife seems to enjoy the group of friends. Although she do some revenge or equal shopping if we get close to New York.
Within the group it's chatter about the escalating entry fee cost....not tires anymore.
So the FF thread hit the skids when Toyo no-bid the deal and they're now looking at a spec radial that may cause issues (real or imagined) with many club cars and may or not be all that much longer living then the existing tire. Maybe Falken is different, but I wouldn't guarantee that if you ask for a spec tire you'll get everything you want. Track side service was proposed as an issue.
Not to say it's not an appealing and good idea, but consider the unintended consequences.
Good points, although I'm not sure how much trackside support we'd need with tires that last 2-3 years. Falken might jump at the opportunity to be the spec tire for FV unlike Toyo who seems to have backed away from FF. First things first though we need to get the CRB to agree to a spec tire before we decide on which one to go with.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpacemanSpiff
It seems to be an SCCA requirement, not an actual racer's need.
Trackside support not a problem. In Canada we have Falken at the track with all the equipment to change tires balancing etc. Bill also have some spares in his trailer. In the US we have Dean slugging four to five sets on rims to all the races.Quote:
Originally Posted by B Farnham
I cannot see either of these companies being able to financially support track Side service, and would use a distributor network.Quote:
Originally Posted by B Farnham
Like you mentioned, 2 years on tires, there is not alot of $$ to be made and same for Toyo. These companies generate the majority of their income from the general public and street cars.
They would probably like to be Title sponsors for series, and offer special deals on tires for racers, but trackside service direct from manufacturer, doubt it
Clearly, with the FF spec tire, the parameters were tilted to ensure a particular outcome. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand that using street tires that last for 5 weekends will only require minimal service. Most racers will now have more wheels than they need with such a tire, which will allow people to carry mounted spares. In emergencies, any tire shop can sort out the problem racer. To pay a 300% premium to have trackside service at a few of the larger events, is just nonsense. With FV, the Falken tires last much longer than the Toyos, so it is an even more absurd requirement. People just do not understand that tires just become a non-consumable item that get forgotten about for years at a time. Setting tire pressures just becomes a task for the obsessed;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SpacemanSpiff
Here are links to the most recent fastrac. In addition to the SRF announcement it shows the results of the FF survey and process.
http://www.scca.com/downloads/9144-1...september-bo-d
http://cdn.growassets.net/user_files...pdf?1440094756
Quotes from another thread that should be applied here as well. Todd gave great information about the process itself. I just worry that what the Falkin camp is asking for will push for a spec tire and end up with something you are not asking for based on the SCCA process. After the FF tire process some of us have learned a few issues leadership may use to keep some current partners whole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bamford
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Butler
Your comment perpetuates misinformation. SCCA doesn't necessarily require trackside support. In the case of FF, the survey showed competitors considered trackside support to be important. If a similar survey for FV showed trackside support wasn't an important consideration that wouldn't be part of the RFP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild